Hello guys,

I'm struggling with these symptoms/problems of my R56 JCW:

1) no power over 3000 rpm
2) stalling idle on cold start (sometimes even on warm ones)
3) CEL and P2177 and P2187 in ECU

I've already changed O2 sensor, no luck
MAP sensor is on the way, I'll change it next week, but I'm pretty sure it will not fix these issues

I was thinking about HPFP, but using torque pro and OBD2 connector I can read "good" values: 700psi at idle, 1500 at full throttle
This last value seems to be a bit low (shouldn't be 1750?), but I read that failing HPFPs kick out 1/10 of desidered psi, not 9/10.. Am I wrong about that?

How's about valve cover? Or more generally a vacuum leak?
Again, using torque I can see boost values: -9 psi at idle, 8 at full throttle
-9 should be OK, isn't it?
And what about 8? I read that JCW should go over 14..

To conclude: what i can do to better identify the problem? I don't want to buy a new HPFP and then discover that is working fine.. and the same for a valve cover, an EGR and so on..

Thank you very much for every hint 👍🏻

 

P2177 (0x2BC0 or 0x274D) Fuel Trim Limit Exceeded System Too Lean
P2187 (0x2785 or 0x2789) System Too Lean at Idle (Bank 1)


I have seen P2177 associated with HPFP and leaks. P2187 some info HERE. You can perform a smoke test to see if there are any leaks in the system. You can also check the high pressure system on turbocharged models using a MINI scan tool. Use the scan tool to view DME, then fuel pump / pressure. Look for the rail pressure set point (desired) and rail pressure actual. These two values should be pretty close. If it's off by 10 bar, I would suspect a faulty high pressure fuel pump.

 

Thank you very much for the information

Unlucky, I don't have the equipment to do a smoke test.. And even a MINI scan tool! I ordered a K+DCAN cable but I got the wrong one (white PCB)..

Regarding HPFP, Torque Pro (android app) at least told me the actual values of rail: 700 psi at idle, 1500 at full throttle, with no hesitation in the curve.. Shouldn't it mean that HPFP is ok?

I'll search leaks in the weekend using a carb cleaner (spraying it near hoses and listening for rpm response..).. Could it be a good idea?

Again, thank you very much

 

trying to troubleshoot with the torque app is kinda tricky... when my pump went out - cold starts wouldnt build more than 100 psi on the rail for a few minutes.
mine had much the same readings as yours after it got going, however tip in throttle would dip pressure before building it back up at idle or cruise. new pump shows about 1100 at idle and as much as 2000psi WOT.

 

Ok, MAP just changed.. No luck 😭

I've checked all hoses of intake manifolds, everything seems Ok to me..
How I could test the valve cover for leaks? Even better: could a leaking valve cover cause all these issues?
On the cover, near the PCV valve hose, there is a lot of oil, is it normal?

 

It is not uncommon for the valve cover to leak from the PCV valve and since they're built into the cover if they leak from there you need to replace the whole valve cover. Do you hear a hissing noise from the valve cover when you turn the vehicle off? You can do a smoke test to check for leaks if you have the equipment to do so.

 

I just did some more tests:


1) checked actual and setpoint value of rail pressure: they seem pretty close to me (I think it's a problem of refresh, but actual value is even higher of setpoint during acceleration)
2) I tried to open my ears and listen to the "hissing" of the PCV.. and I guess I was able to listen to it (after releasing throttle, in the same moment engine lowers to idle)


Now, I've the HPFP here with me.. I can still send it back to supplier.. do you think it's better to install it or investigate on PCV?
Is it possible to idenfity a faulty PCV using oxygen values? I don't have a smoke test device..
Right now additive (or multiplicative, cannot remember) mixture kicked in, it's +6,9%.. with that, before cat O2 gives 1.5v, after cat O2 0.46v..
Are these useful information?


Thank you very much

 

HPFP just changed: still no luck!
Same problems as before..

I tried unplugging PCV-to-manifold hose and blocking it.. Same behavior. Shouldn't this point me to consider PCV ok?
Moreover, MAP shows 380 hPa with PCV hose on, 460 with hose unplugged
Are these normal values?

 

You know its fuel related, MAF sensor, fuel injectors or possible vacuum leak. You have the latter checked off, although I wouldn't think a faulty MAF sensor because the ECU has a backup in case the MAF causes problems. I actually unplugged my MAF sensor to test my AFRs, the throttle was slow to build up speed but didn't cause any idling issues at all even in traffic.

One of the MAP sensors monitors both pressure and intake air temps, it's the one located near the dipstick? Now I've heard of MAP sensors causing the engine to sputter, stumble and stall.

 

Hello,

I've an EUR MINI JCW, and therefore I've no MAF

I changed the MAP located on intake manifolds, but not the other one (located on the hose coming from intercooler).. I guess I could give it a shot

I'm still thinking that it could be related to PCV, but I don't know how to do a useful test (in order to avoid changing another 350+ € part with no results..... ) without a smoking machine..

 

I did some more tests in the last days..
If it's fuel or air related, I just checked everything I could in the fuel preparation system.. let's start with air

1) Hoses, airbox, intercooler, ..: as far as I can see, hoses and airbox are ok.. I checked all the ones I could reach, and everything seems to be ok; the only hose with a problem is the one that connect airbox to turbo, but I've fixed it with some duck tape and there's no difference in behavior; intercooler, intake manifolds and related hoses seem ok
2) MAF: I've no MAF! It sounded strange to me, but it seems that EURO JCWs don't have it.. so everything related to leaks after MAF must be discarded
3) PCV: I tried unplugging both hoses (one goes to turbo, one to intake manifold) and corking them with duck tape.. In this way, I just have bypassed the PCV at all, isn't it? No changes..
4) MAPs: I changed the one on intake manifold, no changes.. I tried unplugging (but not changing) the one after intercooler (that should monitor pressure and temperature), and CEL switches on.. is it enough? How to check and to be sure that I haven't to change it?

Two hoses remain:

a) the one that connect tank ventilation valve to intake manifold.. but I wans't able to seal it; however, INPA told me that valve is closed, and no alarm on it.. shouldn't it be ok then?
b) the noise maker hose.. I don't know how to verify if it's leaking.. to be sure, I ignore how it works at all!

Regarding fuel and combustion..

1) Pre-cat O2 has been changed
2) HPFP has been changed
3) I'm unable to check exhaust.. but I really don't know if these problems could be related to it

Some more information, obtained by INPA or investigation:

1) After fault memory reset, engine has a rough idle (sometimes it cannot stay on).. as soon as additive mixture kicks in, it starts to go fine
2) Before reaching the stable mixture, it seems that misfires are happening on one specific cylinder (the 4) more then the others.. If I could give some numbers (just to show order of magnitude), they should be: cyl-1 0 misfires, cyl-2 1 misfire, cyl-3 0 misfire, cyl-4 10 misfires

A couple of questions now:

1) If I've no MAF, how the engine is going to know how much air is flowing in? Does it trust the MAPs? Because the last MAP is just few centimeters before combustion chambers.. how a leak before the last MAP could affect the mixture, then?
2) How to troubleshoot a broken injector? If cyl-4 is misfiring (before additive mixture) more then the others, could it be causing this behavior?
3) Is test on PCV (sealing both the hoses) trustable?


I really don't know what to test more.. all mechanicians involved did something wrong: one changed the O2, one wanted to change MAF (even if I don't have one), one wanted to check the wastgate, etc etc..

Please give me some advise!

 

hey, did you check fuel injectors? or the spark plugs? you could take the spark plugs off and have someone start the car. look for consistent fuel mist coming from all four. pay extra attention to cyl 4. also observe how the spark plugs look, the gap, the burn etc...

 

Just a small update: all 4 injectors were FULL of carbon residues.. I cannot even imagine how they were able to let some fuel to pass to the chambers!!

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

I had a similar problem with a stubborn P2187/CEL. In my case, I was able to find a local shop that did a smoke test for $50, which showed a leak near the rear, driver side, of the valve cover. The prices on valve covers in the US were really high, but following a tip from Tiaccadi, I got the part at partacus.de, even with shipping at just a bit more than half the price from the US (although it took forever to arrive). Replacing the valve cover (and gasket) seems to have resolved the problem, although on disassembly, it looked as though the problem may have been that the original gasket was simply not seated properly in the groove, rather than the cover actually being cracked.

 

Whats the mileage on your car? Your HPFP may be covered under the extended warranty on the part. Seeing the details of the fault would help a lot since it gives you the rail pressure when it happens. But I have never seen that specific fault with a bad hpfp. I would check for intake leaks then probably go after the hpfp.

 

Hi JC:

Thanks for the message.

The mileage is ~89.5k. The vehicle is an R56, with an N12 engine; base, non-turbo, non-supercharged. So there is no hpfp, just the in-tank pump. I believe the rail fuel pressure sensor is associated with the hpfp, so, for example, with an application like Torque, I cannot get a rail pressure reading from that (non-existent) sensor.

But, having the smoke test show a leak from the valve cover area, and having the fault NOT recur after replacing the valve cover, I think are pretty definitive indicators it was a leak from the valve cover that was the problem.

Mark

 

Hi there
Can you solve the problem? Because i had simillar one with yours. Same symptons same rail pressure values ect.

 

I've had a number of occurrences of similar problems. I did replace the valve cover once. When I took it off, the gasket/o-ring was not seated properly and crushed in one place. I think if I had just replaced the seal it would have worked as well. But replacing the whole cover and gasket did resolve a vacuum leak. I also replaced MAF, throttle body, and injectors chasing down this sort of problem. None of that helped. At one point, when I had code indicating a minor vacuum leak, I tracked it down to the fact that I'd used the diesel gasket when I replaced the fuel filter; when I put in the gasket designed for gasoline, that minor vacuum leak stopped. At one point I also replaced the main ECU (repair shop in Florida said mine was hopelessly fried when I sent it in for diagnosis, and sent me a picture of a burnt part). But the last fix was the strangest. Things were getting really bad; terrible idle, stalling, with occasional great clouds of white smoke out the exhaust. And I'd already replaced pretty much I could think of. Some of the mechanics I use suggested the fuel pump (even though the pressure was fine). So I bought a used pump and started to replace it. However when I got the cover off, it looked like the pump module had a build-in surge tank. And I had misplaced the turkey baster that I use to suck out fluids. It was going to be a messy job without the baster, so I buttoned everything up and went out to buy a new turkey baster. And everything was magically better. So for me, threatening to change the fuel pump, but not actually doing it was the final fix.