OK, there is a big error in Wilwood BBK instruction manual. The Rotor to Hat bolts are 5/16-18 torx head's . It says to torque to 25 FOOT pounds, I broke 2 torx head bits trying to get to 25 pounds , I really began to question the amount of torque on a torx head this size (T40) , but using an impact T40 bit and using my digital torque gauge ( not a HF or cheap gauge ) I was able to get to 21 pounds before I saw my bit about to strip again, so with the red lock tight and 21 I said ENOUGH.

I emailed Wilwood about this and they said actually they prefer 180 INCH pounds which THEY said was equivalent to 25 foot pounds and more accurate.
I replied well you should have that in your manual BUT WAIT A MINUTE , 25 foot pounds EQUAL 300 inch pounds. 180 in pounds equals 15 foot pounds, not 25 like the manual states.

OK, now I’m concerned , the max recommended torque on 5/16-18 bolt is 130 in pounds. So the instructions clearly stated 25 foot pounds which is most likely stretched or stressed the rotor to hat bolts and or the alum threads in the hat.

So now I’m worried my rotor to hub bolts are weakened or the hat/hub threads since the manual had me put twice what that size bolt should have been.


I'm waiting on Wilwood to reply about my concerns. Not like this is the bolt holding the visor on, it's my brakes and if those bolts snap it's not going to be pretty.


So anyone doing the wilwood BBK I would not try to follow that part of the manual. Since all tables I checked show max tq for 5/16"-18 SS bolts is way less than 25 foot pounds I would go less than that. Hopefully wilwood responds and I'll update post.

 

I didn't have any issues getting mine torqued to 25 lb-ft when I assembled the Wilwood rotors for my F55. I used an impact bit and a 3/8" drive beam style torque wrench. One of my hats did have a manufacturing defect, and wasn't true, but the replacement was all good. I'm not sure what sort of bolt kit yours came with, but the 230-12177 setup mine used was sturdy as heck.

I used this guy, and it held up no problem: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sxt-36484

Still have it actually.

--Matt

 

what size rotor to hub bolts did you have ? Mine were button head torx head. Again wilwood does not seem to have correct torque specs , in an email they told me 180in is equal to 25 ft , that is so wrong. They need to correct manual and their stuff together.

 

I bought a second set when the replacement hat came, and only needed half of them, so I still have a set on hand. They're these guys.



I can't comment on whether or not the spec is correct, but I had no issues assembling any of the 3 hat/rotor sets not any issues with them thereafter. The tools I used are still in good shape, and weren't damaged in the slightest while assembling them. Maybe reach out to Todd at TCE for confirmation. They're very good with Wilwood kits for these cars. Even their site says 25 / 300 for this fastener though: http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/torque-specs/

Were I to buy another kit from them at some point in the future, I'd definitely get their upgraded bolt kit with holes for safety wire (which install using a standard 6-point socket) and do it up right. I had no issues with what they provided though.

--Matt

 

That link is to a 7mm socket head, mine was 40 torx button head. Again my main concern is wilwood told me 25 ft = 180 in , that is in correct.

 

Well no reply from wilwood. And Todd from TCE told me to go with what wilwood said, but again this is there email to me. Which has mis information regarding what 25 pounds converts to in inches.

Adam,

Thank you for the inquiry with Wilwood Disc Brakes.

That bolt kit contains 5/16-18 bolts, which we recommend torquing to 180 in-lbs. Even though that figure technically converts to 25 lb-ft of torque, we don’t recommend using lb-ft at that low of a torque spec, as it’s very easy to over-torque the bolts. In-lbs in a more accurate measurement at the smaller torque ratings, which can help prevent over-torquing/bolt breakages, etc.

Regards,
Wilwood Disc Brakes"


So to be safe I am going to buy a set of these which is the strongest I can find, higher than grade 8 and it can be safety wired so I don't have to worry about them loosening. I just wished they would reply with how much torque they should be , 180 in pounds (15 ft pounds) or 300 in pounds.

5/16"-18 from McMaster-carr
170,000 ASME B18.310 90117A583

 

ah, yeah, wrong link. I was digging though my email history from the time when I ordered that and apparently sent the wrong link. It was this guy https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sxt-3670s5?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-sunex&gclid=Cj0KEQjwnsPGBRDo4c6RqK-Oqu8BEiQAwNviCZTsAtjGOPEAbqTTWCCdFwwRihUuXY2AeH5PR cMUHGYaAu3S8P8HAQ

It still stands to reason that TCE's chart shows 25lb-ft and 300in-lb for that fastener, which is the spec I used (and is apparently mentioned in your install guide) without issue. If I read your email correctly, it seems like the only time a figure other than 25lb-ft was encountered was via email with them. That seems like the odd man out. Where are the other tables you checked? Somewhere on Wilwood's site?

The instructions with my kit read:
With the larger I.D. side of the rotor (6) facing away from the hat (7), attach rotor (6) to hat (7) using bolts (9) as shown in Figure 1. Using an alternating sequence, remove bolts one at a time, apply red Loctite® 271 to the threads, and torque to 25 ft-lb.

I see some docs from Wilwood for other applications stating 180 in-lbs, but there's a big disclaimer by it indicating that those specs only apply to that kit. Safety wire and fasteners you personally trust more are always better than any level of uncertainty when it comes to brakes though. I catch your drift there. I'd certainly recommend confirming the appropriateness of those ones vs the ones Wilwood sells. There may be clearance related concerns around the hub too, so that warrants consideration too.

If I were doing a Wilwood setup on a MINI today, TCE are the first people I'd contact. They know their stuff, and have done all plenty of Wilwood+ stuff too, so they know what they're doing. It's worth the wait for their reply.

---Matt

 

Wilwood said they were confused on what car kit I had. But that still has nothing to do with the mis information on the conversion of 25 ft pounds. Which they were lawyer carefull on their answer and never admitted that conversion was wrong.

But they stated it should be 25 foot pounds. So when I replace I'll be using 300 in pounds. I plan to use those 170,000 tensile strength Allen heads I can safety wire them.

I wished they stayed with 12pt bolts with safety wire. I've seen the results of wheels coming off from lose hardware and if your lucky you only damage your fender. Torx also have a habit of collecting dirt and junk in the holes which require cleaning out to avoid stripping.

Im going to test their rotor bolts the best I can to see at what torque they break. I use AC Delco digital TQ gauges that will show the highest TQ reached. Since they have us TQ 25 ft pounds they should not break till atleast 31 pounds giving the standard of 25% tolerance. But being they go into aluminum hub I'm not sure the threads in that would go that high. The bolts supplied look like SS which is not the strongest bolt that my research found. But again I don't know material the wilwood bolts are but they sure look like SS and I would guess 18-8 SS which is only good to approx 125k tensile so if I replace with 170k I should be fine.

Another concern is dissimilar metal corrosion with the hub being aluminum and bolts being steel, normally you apply anti seize when putting steel bolts into aluminum but instead we are using lock tight .Has anyone ever had issues replacing rotors ?

 

I believe these guys are also an option:
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/wil-230-0526

Straight from Wilwood, grade 8, safety wire, and normal 6-point bolt heads. There is a grade 5 option as well, but why bother at that price.

--Matt

 

 

I broke off one of these same bolts and preparing to remove from the roto top hat with a drill. Any tips on removal? I plan to add some heat with a torch prior to removal

 

I ALWAYS...verify, called out torque specs. I "almost" broke a fastener on a motorcycle wheel years back. Since then...check the real numbers.
Simple really...
See the chart below. See the line for 5/16" fasteners..!

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...ed-Torque.aspx

Mike