Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage
#1
Timing Chain Broke 09 Mini Velocity Damage
Hello, I am new to this forum. Thank you for your help. I have a 09 Mini S with 103K. About 2 years ago the chain snapped. Towed to dealer and was told low oil get a new engine for 8K installed. The car has been sitting in my garage ever since collecting dust. Fast forward to last weekend. The engine has at least 3.5 quarts of oil in it. It was not low. I pulled the engine and put it on a stand. Removed countless items from the engine. I pulled the head. The steel guide on the head is broke. The plastic guides are broke and sitting in the pan with the chain. I have lots of questions. First things first. That chain did some damage flying around at high velocity. My dip stick was almost impossible to pull out. It was very bent. Should it be straight? Look at this pick. look at that tube toward the bottom of the block. It has a nice chunk missing from it. I assume this is some type of guide for my oil dipstick. Can I just file that down? I see no other use for it? Next and this I do not believe. Visually I do not see any bent valves. Depending on cam rotation they all lay flat at some point in the rotation. Is there a test I need to do? Do I need to remove the valves and check each one?
#2
#4
Bottom line is there are going to be a lot of metal fragments inside that engine. Dipstick tube is no big deal IMO; i would file it down. Also, with all the metal floating around i would want to take a look at the rod bearings and check for any kind of scoring. When you remove the rods bolts, they need to be replaced. i would remove the oil pump and flush it out or replace it completely. You can do the old school, pour water into the valve chamber and check for leak; but the best thing to do is to bring it to a machine shop and have them do a pressure/leak test. It should cost less than 100 dollars. My machine shop will clean, check, and resurface a mini head for me for 125.00. Your pistons should be fine, especially if you didnt bend any valves. Ive seen this countless times and you probably can do this yourself, buy everything you need(including tools) and get it done for way less than 1300 dollars.
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ChesterCountyMotor (03-09-2018)
#5
personally, I would've done a visual check of the valves and perhaps did the cleaning (new chain kit, drop oil pan and cleaned it) before getting the head out.
since this is after the fact, you can still do the cleaning and prepping. you can spry WD40 into the ports and see if they leak. you can also push down on the valve stem and see if it moves freely.
post pix of the head
since this is after the fact, you can still do the cleaning and prepping. you can spry WD40 into the ports and see if they leak. you can also push down on the valve stem and see if it moves freely.
post pix of the head
#6
The damage was to the guide tube for the dip stick. Same thing happened to me. The chain lost tension and started eating into the guide for the dip stick. Took the bottom end of the engine in to get cleaned by the engine shop. They said just file that down to make it smooth. No serious damage. Hopefully the dip stick slides in and out correctly once engine is rebuilt. My car ate piston #3 but the damage we both experienced to the dip stick guide tube was most likely from low oil, tensioner backing out, chain stretching or breaking. I do not see any damage to any other part of the timing components except the chain and the dip stick guide tube so there you go.
Last edited by timski; 03-09-2018 at 03:00 PM.
#7
I pulled both cams off. I do not see any gaps on the valves. They are all sitting flush. I am going to try the water test tomorrow. The Vanos solenoid is covered in little metal bits. On one cylinder wall I do have a very slight single score I can sort of kind of feel with my finger nail. Is that a big deal? How will I know if I have a bad piston?
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#8
I filled the lobes with water and shot compressed air into the exhaust and air intake manifolds. I am seeing lots of bubbles coming from around the valve heads on the exhaust manifold side. I need to rebuild the head. I pulled one rod bearing cap. The color looks good to me. How do these bearings look. Any chance they spun? When I took the cap off it was soaked in oil. I took the oil pump off and the screen area was filled with plastic bits. What a mess....
#9
You have good advice so far. Both vanos and oil pump can be cleaned / reused. I wouldn't gamble on reusing bearings, unless they were recently replaced. For re-assembly, I suggest using this web site --- https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ --- these are the same procedures used by Mini techs, and torque specs are included. The Bentley manual is a good alternative. There's also a good illustrated parts breakdown here --- http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select . For gaskets, shop around for a complete head rebuild set, starting with the NAM vendors. Same for head gasket (usually not included in the head rebuild kits, 'cause two different thicknesses are available) and timing chain replacement parts. Much better pricing when buying kits vs. individual parts. If you plan on tearing into the engine again, consider ARP studs for head, crank, and rods --- they aren't TTY (stretch) bolts and can be re-used.
If you have the rod bearings out, it's pretty simple to remove the entire piston and check for scored walls. But then you need to decide whether to replace or re-use the rings --- if the scoring can be removed. With lotsa miles on the engine, that's a tough decision. Otherwise, it's a rebore and new oversized pistons.
Broken chains are usually catastrophic, and not worth repairing for anything but a daily driver. Price out all the parts and special tools before you buy anything. Try to get labor estimates from machine shops too.
If you have the rod bearings out, it's pretty simple to remove the entire piston and check for scored walls. But then you need to decide whether to replace or re-use the rings --- if the scoring can be removed. With lotsa miles on the engine, that's a tough decision. Otherwise, it's a rebore and new oversized pistons.
Broken chains are usually catastrophic, and not worth repairing for anything but a daily driver. Price out all the parts and special tools before you buy anything. Try to get labor estimates from machine shops too.
#10
As the crank turns... Scoring is minimal and I actually still seeing the original honing marks. I pulled the pistons out. The bearings are worn. The piston rings look beat and are filthy. Still debating on pulling out the crank to replace the main bearings. Weighing the risk versus reward for that action. Here are some pics for your enjoyment.
#11
I don't think the crank shaft bearings will be any worse. it is your call to move few more steps and get those bearings out.
When I did a rebuild, I ordered a 2 sets (crank and rod bearings are one set) from UK and they were with shipping close to 350
as mentioned above, i think, run through the numbers/cost and see if it is worth it.
When I did a rebuild, I ordered a 2 sets (crank and rod bearings are one set) from UK and they were with shipping close to 350
as mentioned above, i think, run through the numbers/cost and see if it is worth it.
#12
Crank bearings are available in color coded sets --- unique to each crank / block number code pair. Do some research if you decide to replace them. Either the Bentley manual or --- https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ --- will have the charts needed to get the correct colors. Dealer parts guy can also look them up, but you need to furnish the codes. Altho, there are those that have posted that they ignored the charts and just ordered one color, installed and run with no problems. More decisions ---
#13
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked. Could it be part 11157605186 and or11157565449
Last edited by ChesterCountyMotor; 04-17-2018 at 07:09 PM.
#14
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked.
#15
Does anyone recommend a Turbo reseal kit? I have a few leaking seals? The link bellow is a rebuild kit from China on ebay?
https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
#16
I am back. One thing turned into another and I let the shop rebuilding the head rebuild the entire short block as well. I have some questions. I am now onto the daunting task of bolting everything back on. Any idea the part number of this plastic hose that plugs into the engine. I am thinking something with secondary air. It is brittle and it cracked. Could it be part 11157605186 and or11157565449
https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/11157605186/
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MINI Guru/ MINI Owner Since 2004 | NEW Lifetime Part Replacement | Local Pickup
Milltek | Genuine MINI | Forge Motorsport | NM Engineering | ECS Performance | M7 Speed
Customer Service Hours: 8am-8pm EST|Sales Team Hours: 8am-11pm | SAT 10am-7pm 800.924.5172
#17
Does anyone recommend a Turbo reseal kit? I have a few leaking seals? The link bellow is a rebuild kit from China on ebay?
https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
https://tinyurl.com/ybglht5x
#19
#22
The engine is back in. It starts up and the car moves. I have some leaks and issues that I am hammering out one by one. I am getting a grinding clicking from passenger front wheel. Can you please tell me if this axle looks seated all of the way? I think there is a gap that should not be there.
#24
The last and final day.. I hope. Fixed all oil and coolant leaks. I can remove the entire front end in 45 minutes now. Drove the car 20 miles or so. The limp light came on without any check engine codes. I did not notice any loss in power. I cleared a few times and it returned. One thing that is interesting. Engine temp is steady at 222. That seems ok. When I turn the car off and remove key the fans come back on for about 5 minutes and shut off. Anyone seen this before?
#25