Everyone,
I have been thinking about building a how-to database for the site that would incorporate this type of information from the numerous posts currently found in the forums. I would like to get your feedback on sites where you like how they organized information, presented it, allowed members to contribute information, etc. Also, what you didn't like about them.

I would really like the result of this discussion to be a list of requirements that I could work from to develop a system like this for the site. Let me know your thoughts.

Mark

 

I think this is a fantastic idea.

As a newbie -- who is likely placing my order in a month or so -- I've spent a lot of time searching for the definitive stance on X. The first two topics were iPod and Bluetooth integration. There is a lot of fantastic discussion, but it's hard to get a complete opinion on a topic in one place.

I'm a Miata owner and I've always found the Miata.net Garage extremely valuable. It's essentially a set of articles that are the definitive How-Tos. Sample topics:

• How to change your Timing Belt (including when and why)
• All about Slick 50 (this was a big debate as Slick 50 showed up during early Miata-dom)
• ODB II diagnostic codes
• How best to wash your Miata

Miata.net is lower tech than NAM, likely as it began as a mailing list 15 years ago -- though there are now forums and you can search the entire mailing list archive. I like how you made this site all fourms. And you've done a great job with organization.

You mentioned Wikipedia as a tool -- you can download and install the Media Wiki pretty quickly. I wonder about that as a solution. You'll have two text markup systems, one for the forums and one for the Wiki, which might confuse folks. And while Wiki's are inherently collaborative, some folks might not take to the editorial mode -- the "I deleted your paragraph on the Alta catch can because it really was a sales pitch" effect.

On the other hand, for people who get it, jump in and make articles more readable and therefore it will become more informative all the time. The folks that just want to post their .sig and say "me, too" would likely stay away (or instead change how they contribute). Really the key is how the community will take to the shift, in one area of the site, from converstions to group-edited articles. There will be chaos, but you would have a better reference system (which is what we're talking about) than what you have now. The more I think about it, the more interesting using a Wiki would be as a complement to the forums. It would be a place for the summaries of helpful conversations to go and be preserved.

Either way, you will want a few moderators in order to organize, edit, gather, and remove the sales pitches and whining.

So that's my $0.07 (too long for two pennies). Whatever you do, this site is fantastic. And as a Miata owner, the Mini community is very familar and comforting as I consider abandoning my car of the last 13 years (92 Black, C package, hardtop).

Let me know if you want to discuss more.

thx,
--dwf

 

But you asked for a list of requirements:

• Documents on topics instead of threads/conversations
• Detailed search options
• Search results should show me threads and documents separately
• Collaborative editing (optional)
• Moderated
  • removes ads, rants, and me, too's
• Separate section of the site so people know that discussions go to the forums, but How-Tos go here

Hope this helps!
--dwf

 

Mark,


DWfrank has a point here ... adding to the available parts ... there are dozens and dozens of DIY scattered throughout the site. A few are stickys but I think many are buried way down in the individual forums. For example, here is a FF200 driving light DIY buried in August ... https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ighlight=ff200


You could put all the DIYs linked to the main article (not the comments after the main post) in one place.


ODB codes would be very simply. Just set up up that you enter the code and the backend DB contains all the expanded explanation of the codes. Codes are in the Bentley manual. We can get those easily.


Good ideas DWFRANK!

 

And a darn good one too!

 

I agree! as the first of these cars leave the protection of factory warranty It is a much needed feature to the MINI community to pool our knowledge especially on those things not covered in the service manual like mods

 

Dude, you know it. I liked it

 

A wiki that allows comments/discussion would be a great base for this.

 

I suggested this on the old forum before it became NORTHAMERICAN MOTORING.COM. Several of the moderators and regular posters supported the idea at the time. Nothing happened. I just went back to my first post on this forum and none of that stuff made it over here to this forum. It seems most of the New MINI owners are credit card/check book tuners anyway so what’s the point? There have been many, many informative posts buried and lost under a lot of fluff and wasted bandwidth. I think a few have given up on sharing info. Look what happens when someone asks for DIY info, only a handful out of thousands will try to help or even know what they are talking about with an answer. I'm not talking about opinions, we have opinions enough!
The only people making any headway and doing it are the Do It Yourself types. Most of this type share info or will when asked. So what happens to our uploaded picture space limitation if someone puts together a How to supported with pictures? I was just trying to upload some and discovered I was running out of space. Is the How to poster going to be limited by storage space and how long he wants to keep his How to pictures up before he deletes them to get back space to put up new pictures?
Sorry for the rant but thats what I think and how I feel about it tonight.
Maybe now I will be able to start to think about solutions tomorrow..

 

I would like to suggest that if anyone wants to host their images themselves, to use a free service like Flickr.com

You can display up to 200 pictures at any resolution--more can be uploaded, but the free account only lets you view the first 200, and it automatically resizes to one of many choices. They encourage you to link and share your pictures on forums and websites, so bandwidth isn't an issue. The free accounts are limited to how much that can be uploaded per month, but even at $24.95 for a year, you get up to 2GB pictures uploaded a month and unlimited storage.

This wasn't mean to be an ad, but rather, pointing out that if you feel cramped for space on NAM's picture hosting, the consider a host like Flickr.

Now as for the HowTos, there will be MC and MCS specific articles, and even year specific--mods for '02 - '04 may not apply to '05, etc.. I'd like a very simple way, sort of drilling down method of displaying the articles. Something like-- Exterior/Interior--then electrical versus mechanical versus computer---etc.

I mean, searching is still highly desirable, but a fast way to represent the different areas of modding by showing simpler data up front would be desirable.

The articles need to be template driven--so the writers don't need to worry about how it looks or whether it's easy to read. We should be focused on content and pictures, while the software is foolproof to make anyones writing look finished---i.e. by asking us questions, we fill in the blanks.

I think it's ok to have more than 1 take or "official" How to on the same subjects--but this may be a decision up to the moderators. I like to detail my own how-tos because many people don't take the photos or leave out the details that are sometimes crucial to understanding the task at hand. This potentially could be linked as an Addendum or Additional Reference to the master article.

I think articles should be grouped or searchable by author.

Articles should be reviewed by the authors periodically. Maybe automatic reminders sent to them to update them, say once a year? It's frustrating seeing a how to on something that doesn't apply today.

That's all I can think of for now---time to sleeeeeeeep.

 

I've offerred, via PM to mfurgeson, to host a wiki -- they're pretty easy to set up and could be a useful resource. It could be easily supported by AdWords.

What I'm curious about is whether (much as is "ranted" above) are we talking about a small group of people who would move, add, edit enough content to make it a useful resource? Think Wikipedia, but just for Minis.

Or, is the current mechanism sufficient? GoMotoring's DIY section has a lot of good stuff and eventually you can find stuff in forums. People who care have written up good stuff. But the content could be better organized and more up-to-date.

(I've got to say that as a newbie, there was plenty of info about accessories, options and just normal usage that helped ignite my need for a MINI. Now. So I don't see this as just a resource for tuners -- though I expect that to be a lot of the content.)

The advantage of a wiki is that everyone who cared could edit everything. Documents could be regularly refactored/reorganized as needed by those who know. Yes there has to be some moderating influence.

I have no comment yet on pictures as I have no sense how much space we're talking about over time. We could start small and add as needed.

After thinking about it some more, I've registered wikicooper.net/.com. If I'm not stepping on toes here at NAM, should I throw a site together over the holiday weekend and see what happens?

Would you use it?

--dwf

 

Sorry for the delay in posting a reply...I've been finalizing the 2006 Calendar of Motoring with the printer.

As I've responded to dwf my initial thought was to look at using a Wiki for a how-to database. In retrospect I would like to proceed in a different manner. Let's talk about specifically what is truely needed for the site. I'll provide the following ideas to get it started:

- ability for users to contribute how-tos in a structured way (ie - by steps, sections, etc.)
- ability for users to include images in their how-tos without utilizing personal image gallery space
- ability for large images to be automatically resized for the how-to
- ability to print a how-to so that it can be taken into the garage
- abilty for other users to provide follow up comments as to additional tools, techniques, etc.
- subscriptions to how-tos just like threads/posts so that creator is notified when a follow-up is posted. Same would be provided for those who elected to subscribe to the how-to
- provide a means of organizing how-tos into categories
- ability for moderators/coordinators to review how-to and/or follow up posts prior to them being made visible


To address one of the earlier posts relative to not building something earlier...there are a huge number of things I do every day relative to the site and, unfortunately, I don't often get a dedicated, undisturbed block of time to do development. Since late summer I've been working on getting the site upgraded and redeveloping the dealer rating system so that it will work with the latest and greatest version of vBulletin. I hope to perform the migration soon (perhaps as early as this weekend) and then work to get the dealer rating system launched. After that a more in-depth analysis of what tools can be used off the shelf and/or developed to have it work in a way that would be most beneficial to members of the site. In the meantime this discussion about what is needed, how people would like to see it, submit to it, etc. is VERY helpful in building a set of requirements I can work from. Keep the discussion going and I'll be able to ask questions, clarify, and put together a spec that I can present to the site for feedback on. At that point I'll know exactly what is needed and can locate and/or develop a solution to meet our needs.

Thanks!

Mark

 

Mark, after thinking about this for a bit, I think you need three separate sections:

1. I still feel strongly that a parts DB like the latest spreadsheet I emailed is needed. People ask all the time about which part is best, price, etc (including me)
2. The DIY section would be great. Today they are scattered everywhere. Everything you mentioned is right. There must be a means to submit the DIY to a moderator first to make sure its administratively OK and technically makes sense. Also, beware, some of the DIY "might" be illegal in some states (or not DOT approved) so those would need moderation or run the risk of publically advocating something not legal
3. Last, the site could use a white paper section or technical discussion articles. There are a bunch of people who know much and could probably contribute. Take a look at the JCW Porting Thread ... I havent got a clue as to what the engineers are talking about there but I bet they do and could write a good article. Look at dinancars.com Dinan has several white papers including one on why dynos are not reliable if not done right

Last ... there are some people with a Wealth of Information on what they did and what they wouldnt do. Something like "Lessons Learned". Identifying and articulating Lessons Learned is common practice in business but hard to get people to write them up unless they are enthusastic but there are many enthusiasts here. Lessons Learned would be great.

IMHO

 

I guess I should have prefaced my last post as pertaining only to a how-to database. I agree that the parts database we've been discussing is a good one but I believe it will have a separate set of requirements from a how-to database. Given this would it be agreeable to all that I start a page for the how-to requirements and a page for the products database requirements? Once I have these created I can create a new thread for each and comments/revisions can be listed in the discussion around each document.

On a related note I want to make everyone aware that it will be into 2006 before we can begin any type of development on the above. If you happen to know of someone with PHP/MySQL skills please have them contact me through the Contact Us page. I would like to get some assistance on the development front to speed these types of projects along.

Thanks!

Mark

 

Good idea

Lay out the system requirements for each in separate threads