What I witnesses was physics.

 

thank you. There is so much misinformation passed around these days that it quickly becomes "urban legend".

500 whp? Easy get a 2008 Z06

 

In extreme situations, ABS DOES shorten braking distances.

One of the most common complaints in Speed World Challenge has been that some of the cars have ABS and others don't, and the cars with ABS can go deeper into the corner and use the brakes harder.

Also, Formula One developed ABS and used it until it was outlawed, mainly to make it more difficult for the drivers.

The non-decrease in accidents has been widely attributed to people not knowing how to drive with ABS.

 

In extreme situations, ABS DOES shorten braking distances.

One of the most common complaints in Speed World Challenge has been that some of the cars have ABS and others don't, and the cars with ABS can go deeper into the corner and use the brakes harder.

I believe that is because the ABS equipped cars can trail brake deep into the turn while the non ABS cars can't. If it's braking in a straight line a good skilled driver can beat ABS.

Also, Formula One developed ABS and used it until it was outlawed, mainly to make it more difficult for the drivers.

It was a cost saving meassure & it showed who had more skill in braking.

The non-decrease in accidents has been widely attributed to people not knowing how to drive with ABS.

No argument from me on that one.

It's all about driving skills. Sad that many driver seem to have none.

 

You mean the one that 2 objects can't occupy the same space at the same time?

Can't break the laws of physics.

 

A point of clarification, the reason it was banned was because it shortened the braking distance into the corners by so much that it made it very difficult for other drivers to try and pass while braking into a corner. (YellowMiniS, I think we're in agreement.)

I like ABS, and I believe that the day is coming when you won't have a choice, it will be standard equipment. IMHO

 

I like it on my MINI too. I do wish I had the choice to shut it off when in conditions that warrant that. Snow, dirt & gravel roads.

You are right, soon every car will have it. IMO I wish they'd mandate having a higher level of drivers skills to get a license & not dumb down the drivers with electo nannies.

 

i have had a similar experience . scary to say the least .

 

There is an operative word--driver skill! As a licensed teen, I was a maniac. I learned ALL about skids, controlled and otherwise. It helped that my dad put out on a track a few times for a little bit of formal instruction. Had I not learned, well I would have been one of those teens that made a young corpse.

I like to DRIVE my car, that includes deciding upon which gear to be in, modulating the brakes, maybe in conjunction with the throttle, the point is predictability. If a computor can react faster than you, then any reaction on your part is an overreaction. I got into trouble with the Chrysler ABS because I did not realize that they would try step in. As Jahmills pointed out, I would have been thrilled to have a ridge of snow in front of my wheels! The biggest flaw in the design of that Detroit POS is that was built to rely completely on the ABS. It was my first time in a car with antistop. I was not told that I should slam on the brakes. It had an automatic transmission, allowing manual selection of 1, 3 or 4. I started over in 3. The hand brake was useless for emergency braking, it was ratcheting thing that locked all the way, before finally releasing. (Yes I have used an E brake to stop a car with a hydraulics failure) My only choice after ABS walked off in a snit was to pop it down to 1. I did my best to equalize the gears, I expected the spin. It was easy to control once I'd shed some velocity. I made sure that i was in the center lane and that there were no cars in my vicinity.

I dumped it. Viva la manual shift. I have done a lot of research into ABS, accidents and stats. May it go the way of the push button transmission!

My Mini has (had) ASC, not DSC. The dealer assured me that once the computer that controls the system is de-activated it refers to a normal old fashioned brake system. If it didn't we have cars crashing everytime a fuse blew.

 

I have driven a LOT of different cars over the years, with and without ABS. I am currently on my second MINI (traded-in the first one didn't crash it). I grew up driving on ice and snow (mostly ice) during the cold Midwest winters in my home town. I currently live in Maine, and have seen plenty of snow up here to.

That being said. I have had one accident in the snow or ice (knock on wood), and I was idling along at 5 mph through a slight, flat curve when my '77 Nova decided suddenly that the ditch look like a good place to be. I was touch neither the gas nor the brakes at the time that I took an uncommanded spin to the left.

I find the ABS on the MINI to be absolutly top-notch. I've never felt even a hint of brake modulation on anything less than an absolute, pedal-mashed-to-the-floor stop, and that has been intentionally induced everytime, just to see what it would do. I have made my fair share of panic stops in my MINI, and never had the abs kick in during normal use. I drove my '03 MC (with DSC) through the winter with worn-out summer runflats, and the only time I ever slipped, slid or was otherwise out of control was the one time that it snowed while I was at work, and I tried to pull into my rather steep, unplowed driveway.

Maybe I am just an unusual driver that is always looking ahead for possible problems so I can avoid them in the first place. Maybe I'm just a darn lucky driver that rarely runs into instances where I would have to rely on ABS. Personally I like having it there. If your pedal goes flat to the floor then there is something WRONG with the car. ABS would never cause that to happen. In my experience when you brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in it feels like the brake pedal is pushing back against your foot. I have intentionally induced ABS activation while avoiding an obstacle (at a driving day sponsored by MINI of Peabody), and was amazed at the ease with which you can steer this car around an obstacle with the brake pedal held down as hard as you can. The EBFD (Electronic Brake Force Distribution) that is standard on all of our cars does a wonderful job of distributing the brake force to the wheels in such a way that you will rarely ever induce ABS activation.

When it comes to driving in the snow my personal opinion is that you are going fast enough that you have to brake hard enough that you start to slide (barring something, or someone popping out right in front of you) you are going too fast.

You can still threshold brake in a MINI. Once you have a feel for the car and the way the brakes work, and the way the tires behave in any given situation. It is entirely possible to brake right up to the point where the brakes are going to lock (and ABS kick in), without ever crossing the line. That is generally the fastest way to stop any way. It's all about learning to use the particular equipment that comes with your car to its fullest extent, and how to handle different environments. If you want to disable a safety feature on your car go right ahead. You can unplug your airbags, and remove your seatbelts too, if you really want to, but I sure hope you are the guy that's following me too closely in the snow one day when I have to make an emergency stop.

 

Here's a very informative thread about another members experience with disabling the ABS in a controlled track environment. They did a good job of comparing braking with and without ABS.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=102647

 

You can always disconnect a connector to one of the 4 ABS sensors.
Very quick and easy to do, easily reversed, but your ABS dash light
will go on and you won't have flat tire monitoring either.
Won't affect non-ABS braking performance.

 

So, what it comes down to, is you didn't know how to use the ABS, therefore they are bad.

 

Do what you want to do and believe what you want to believe, but make sure your insurance agent or the person you might hit in an accident doesn't surf NAM to discover that you've disabled a safety feature that your insurance agent expects to be operational on the vehicle he or she is insuring. (long run on sentence, sorry grammar police)

 

Straight line braking on dry pavement - an experienced driver can damn sure beat ABS's stopping distance because an experienced driver won't lock up a wheel under those circumstances. The best stopping ability will occur just prior to a point where the wheel locks up. If ABS kicks in then you are braking too hard.

If you need to brake hard on snow there is no way a person can modulate the braking as well as a working well designed ABS system. Can you stop on snow without ABS - heck yes, most of us do it all the time - it is when circumstances overwhelm that ABS pays for itself. My .02

 

@LynnEl

I don't think I actually knew I had ABS until after that fun ride in the mountains! I bought the stupid thing to do trade shows. Knowing that a van is easier to load than a pickup, I glumly accepted the "American Standard" tranny in this in hopes of its doing the job. The 2001 Tundra that I bought it to replace it was ordered to my specs and built by Toyota as such. SR5 trimline AND a manual gearbox. No ABS. After a 4 month wait, the dealer that had it built* for me said, "that's one rare truck!" .

And yes I did have a bad experience with ABS. And NO I am not too enthusiastic about possibly finding out about it quirks in during a road crisis.

I think cars with ABS should bear BIG warning stickers, "DANGER, Car equipped with ABS-it may not stop as quickly as one without and an experienced driver!"

*Just as I ordered. Except for the interior color, grrrr. The dealer offer to keep that one and see what came out again in 4 months!

 

Yucca, why are you being so practical? You know some people just love to unhook safety features like seat belt warning bells and now ABS:impatient

 

Yucca, it looks like your sentence went on an uncontrolled skid.

 

I just have to laugh at people who seem to feel safety features are somehow an insult to their driving skills. Truly skilled drivers welcome and know how to use those features. Yes, every once in a while someone is injured because of a seatbelt. Does that mean we do away with the seatbelts. I remember the story or a particular race car driver, who insisted a particular safety feature designed to prevent a broken neck hindered his driving skills. Died in an accident due to a broken neck. Would you want to be the passenger on a plane, the pilot of which considered radar and landing instruments an insult to his flying skills?

 

If only he hadn't disabled his *** (Anti-run-on Sentence System)



edit:
Pshaw! Any GOOD pilot could fly blind. Blind drunk, in fact. And an excellent one can fly blind drunk while schtupping a flight attendant and performing a bris.

 

or ARSS (more brittish)

 

Actually Mr Rowland... *** is quite dated & inadequate as it only adds semicolons & commas. However, all run-on sentences are virtually eliminated when *** is run in cunjunction with the new Smart PIRC (Period Insertion & Recapitalization Control) or just call it Smart *** for short

 

But Period Orientation and Recapitalization Control is more advanced. (PORC).

 

abs breaks generally are not as good if you really know what you are doing...

that being said they are very un-obtrusive on the mini. You have to be doing something pretty crazy to get them to kick in or have some insane brake fade going on.

I removed the abs from my old alfa track car... and it was awesome to not have it... However, even though i have had significant time behind the wheel with racing instructors... i wouldn't own a street car without it.

Computers are good at If/Then statements... maybe not as good as you are at making the decision... but they make a decision faster then you do and they stick with it... It gives consistancy and aids your avoidence... no reason not to have them.

 

the problem is, if you make the wrong decision, it's too late for you to do anything about it. But the computer has plenty of time. If you "know what you are doing," the ABS would never have to activate and, therefore, there would be no problem with it being there. The fact is, if they activate, it means you have already made the wrong decision. Sometimes, the decision is not one predicated on advanced thought, though.