Check this out. I had a DSC and brake light (both yellow) on for a month now and finally made arrangements with dealer, 300 miles away, to have this issue resolved. There were a few other Warranty problems to fix also. Well the dealer called me to say that software updates from the Progman cannot be downloaded into car because the amplifier for the audio system had been removed (upgraded) and since the component is no longer on the K-CAN bus the cars software can't be updated because the car doesn't have it's original build to list from the factory. I was sent on my not so merry way with no repairs and no resolution to be had except to return the car to its original state at delivery.

 

yeah and whos fault is that?

 

WTF !!!!

That's insane... !
There all Bozooz on that BMW Bus !

 

Son of a ....! Did you upgrade the head unit, or just the amp? It never occurred to me there could be dealer upgradeable firmware in the amp. Are they refusing just because they can, or are they claiming this somehow presents a problem? You ought to post this in the Navigation & Audio forum.

 

Only the amp was upgraded. Namely removed. Seems that the amp is on the bus with other nonessential components. Yea it is my fault it was removed but cmon it is a friggin amp in a crappy stereo system at best. So do the work after the factory system using Clean Sweep or similar hardware to clean the signals.

 

Come on, it's not like he modded the ECU - it's an ampilifier, WTF does that have to do with software updates for the engine controls? That is just insane.

 

Yes I believe the radio amp system is part of the k-CAN bus . There is a fiberoptic link in the system for uploads to the computer. Hope you saved all the parts.

 

It is quite possible there is a ROM in the amp head and the software cannot deal with not being able to program what it knows should be there.

In other words, it would probably abort the update if they tried it.

Like djam said, I hope you saved all your old parts.

Automobile manufacturers are not eh brightest bulbs in the lot as it pertains to the implementation of computer hardware. Example: Mini could have easily created a table in a central ROM containing all current active options installed in the Mini, then as the prgram tried to update the software and did not detect the installed option, simply skip it and move on, while sending a flag to the installer so the user and technician could be aware of the non-responding part.

Oh yeah. I am a programmer. Probably should mention it.

 

+1 That is correct, the MINI R56 run son CANbus network and the network needs to be intact to work. Put your old amp in, restart the system and go see the dealer, get the flash then pull that off the network. CAN is a global standard that they use now, they have used in in trucks for many year, it allows way more bus speed for communication....wait a few years from now all cars will be 24volt like most trucks, SAE already passed the standard like 3 years ago.

All 2007+ vehicles run on CAN.

 

Thanks for your input people. It has been helpful.
I Still think it is chicken s*** of MINI to not clarify the necessity of an OEM audio system for the proper function of their poorly written software programs. Who would have guessed that changing an audio component in an automobile could cause so many problems.

 

Did you notice the little sticker in the upper left of your windshield? You might want to read it sometime. That is all the clarification you need.

Hope I don't need any updates in the future. My stock amp is still in but there is also additional stuff that may affect the bus.

 

That label includes the cell phone use in the car and iPod and Any electronic device that MINI does not approve. Will you get there approval before using any electronic device in the car?

 

I didn't get approval before hacking into the audio system to install signal procesors and amps. However, I know I could be up crap creek if those items messed up the electrical system. That's why I had a pro-shop install them so they could take the risk.

Cell phone use is a bit draconian, but anytime you modify the wiring (or any other part) in a modern car you are taking a chance.

I have heard of MINIs (and BMWs) that had to have the entire wiring harness replaced when someone simply cut the wrong wire somewhere and it couldn't be fixed by simply soldering it back together. That becomes a multi-thousand dollar "customer pay" repair.

 

ok everyone on the bmw bus are not bozos. Some of you people just dont get it. Everyone wants to play engineer with these cars and then when something cant be done ie programming in this case everyones gets all up in arms and blames the dealership and the people who work and starts pointing fingers like there the idiots and they dont know what they are doing. And guess what people some of the people who drive these cars are idiots. Now before anyone jumps down my throat im not calling anyone out becasue im new here and frankly i dont know any of you. But i am a technician and i am familiar with the technology of these cars. So When you decide to play engineer and eff with systems in these cars try to be a little less ingorant about things. And for your issue with the amp The bus network that the amp is on is called the MOST bus and its a fiber optic bus that all your entertainment and communication systems are on ( nav, cd player, AMP and telephone functions) so when you go ahead and remove the amp all together, nevermind just adding another amp to the car you break the most bus ring and the progman will not let you update the entire vehicle because it knows there is an error in the system. So its not minis technologys fault or bmws or the dealerships fault, its your fault. You messed with the car and how it works and how it functions. So heres a word of advice to everybody... Educate yourself before messing with these cars and just be prepared if your caught doing something that you shouldnt be to the car that would void your warranty then shame on you or whatever, dont try to twist it around and blame it on someone else like the manufacturer and if you can get something major fixed under warranty or goodwill or something that was clearly your fault then kudos my friend more power to you. But dont put an aftermarket exhaust on your car and then go to the dealership next week bitching " oh theres a bad rattle coming from underneath my car" expecting them to take you in no problem and cater to your everyone need. THINK!!!! just for one second!! oh maybe what i did is causing that rattle, because if your so mechanically inclined to put an exhasut on your car i would damn well hope your smart enought to find out what that rattle is. Sorry for venting everybody and i hope no one takes this personally especially the person who created this thread but seriously c'mon man you got caught and thats that. Oh and btw why didnt you just put the orignal amp back in the car?

 

so what are the options to upgrade the sound system?

Changing the sound system is something that always have been done and one of the first mods one will do to their car, on all cars name any model/brand, bmw should have taken it in account when designing the electronics.

Maybe if there were a better sound system pleople wouldn´t want to upgrade it in the first place.

 

as far as i know there are none. And yeah i agree with you the sound system isnt that great by all means. All im saying is if your gonna mess with the whole working of things and install after market stuff just be prepared to pay the price if you mess anything up. These arent hondas There a bmw product and there expnsive and very complex. And I think mini actually does have a harmon kardon sound system that comes with the audio package but ive heard that that doesnt even sound that geat. Personally ive never been really impressed by bmws sound systems even in the 7 series and the mini is nothing to write home about but from going from a 93 honda civic( being my newest car ive ever owned) to an 07 mcs its a big step for me and im happy with it.

 

minirabbit, did you want to inflame or inform? You actually had some useful info there - too bad it's buried.

 

Man lighten up minirabbit. Gettin yourself all worked up here. First off the amp is indirectly connected to the MOST via K-can bus system to the CCC. It is not on the fiber optic bus. Second, the amp does not have upgradeable firmware the bus system to the amp is only for daignostics. All I am saying is MINI made it a point to have as much control over this model as they could get. But really it is just an amp.

 

right im sorry for getting all fired up over this. basically all im trying to get across is just dont point fingers and blame mini or the dealership for not giving options for upgrades in the sound system. Thats the way they built the car and thats what works for them. So if you want to install and upgraded amp or head unit or whatever go for it and i hope it works out good i truely do. But if you do dont go running to the dealership wondering why the sound system isnt working right or sounds like poop. Thats all i apologize for getting anyone else worked up about this. Its just common sense, to me at least.

 

so i would say just reinstall your stock amp and get the vehicle updated and resinstall the aftermarket one.

 

CAN is a node addressable standard. If they can't address it node by node, they wrote crappy SW! WTF? If there were damage to a component or something, they're saying that they can't reprogram the ECU? I think that's in violation of the OBD standard. Oh, and if you're head unit fails will the require a repair to it so they can do emissions recals? Something stinks here but good!

I'm guessing that they saw something out of the ordinary, and decided to not figure out how to deal with it.

Pure BS. OR Purely BS implementation.

Matt

 

If the amp is just a star connected component on the can bus, removing it shouldn't be a big deal. I would re-install it, take the mini in, get your update done & ask them if they could remove it & divorce it so it's not causing any faults.


that being said, I've seen some really idiotic stereo 'upgrades'. we had a customer bring in their 93 sport sedan with numerous electrical faults and a shopping list of codes thrown, the warranty was flushed and it ended up costing $5k plus to repair everything. having cartoys tap into the bcm to install an amp/subwoofer toasted the whole rear electrical center and they cut the o-bus by accident.

Mini's only going to pay the dealership to fix failed components & in a pre-determined amount of time, don't expect the tech to lose his butt trying to find a workaround for your modifications.

Good news, the speakers are still a purely analog standardized component you can swap out... Just try not to damage the panels/clips in the process or the rattles you create are going to outweigh the sound improvements

 

Sorry - but having been in the IT industry for over 25 years
Technology for it's own sake does NOT make things better.

Several people have had first hand experience seeing that *they* not just BMW had built systems that even they or local dealer DO NOT have the tools / expertise / or capabilities to troubleshoot.

So IMO if you build something you can't support - you are a BOZO... ( there are much more colourfull terms that could be used - but i'm trying to keep the thread civil)

Not everything *benefit* from being computerised -
Low voltage relays embeded in a chip that control the cars lighting are NOT something that makes my life better and DOES make it harder to support and maintain than simple wires from A - B.

Yes DSC - ABS and engine control a intrinsically linked - but having the Stereo and Signal lamps included is Wacked !

Yes it will ensure that we Geeks ( in all shapes and capacities ) are ensured employment - but at what expense.

Going to the dealer every time my cars throws a Code and being told replace the ECU for 2000$ IS NOT ACCEPTABLE !

 

If they can do that, why not just divorce it from the system, then go about the act up upgrading the car?

While many of the points here about taking things into your own hands are valid, there's still no excuse for not being able to fix the code issues because the amp wasn't in the system. Let's say the amp goes bad, and the owner says "Na, I don't want to fix it, so leave the POS where it is, just fix the DSC light." Are you saying the only way to do that is to install a WORKING amp into the car so the divorce can be done? If that's the case, it's crappy SW AGAIN.

It's not like BMW/Mini isn't aware that there's a multi-billion $ aftermarket in ICE and the like.... It's more consistant to assume that the implementation actions were done such that the owner HAS to work through BMW/Mini, and CAN"T go to third parties for work on the car stereo. This is just wrong, and reaks of market manipulation.

FWIW, I went to a conference about embedded systems. Turns out there is an upcoming implementation of a CANopen system (CANopen is an implementation of CAN that does some things CAN can't, like dynamically assign node addresses so you don't have to worry about stepping on used node IDs) for cars. The reason that this is being done, is many of the car companies realize that they can't own (nor do the smart ones want to) the entire electronics world that cars are becoming, and they want to include a method that will allow for extending the ICE environment to third parties that doesn't involve hacking the wiring harness. Lots of the big boys are behind this. After all, there are two many combinations of things that each customer wants to add on to the car for any single car manufacturer to really support them all, and locking the customer out of options in a closed implementation is just stupid, as the customer will get pissed!

Really, the OP sounds more like the techs didn't know how to do the upgrade when they had to go to another chapter in the diagnostic chapter other than the one titled "how to do stuff when there are no problems". This wouldn't be the first time someone here ran into staff with that limitation.

Matt

 

BMW's about as likely to embrace any 'open' technology as .... ain't gonna happen.

As an independant tech you can't even get access to pull anything more then the federally mandated p-codes. BMW dealers have to jump through hoops just to lease the techtools from BMW, forget buying them outright.
The OEM's are just looking to squeeze out the independants & thanks to tools like the DMCA they're finally able to lock up their systems.

I worked in IT for many years before ditching my keyboard for a toolbox.