I really cannot agree with your logic. Widespread has to do with how many in a population are experiencing the problem and nothing to do with some number having the problem not get fixed correctly the first time.

There have likely been over 100,000 2nd gen Minis sold in the states, with some percent being turbos. I think we can all agree that the problem is being experienced in greater numbers than is acceptable and even Mini is feverishly working on a fix. That is progress. They have eliminated several possible fixes, kind of like Thomas Edison following XXX number of failures to develop the incandescent light bulb.

 

Just got a phone call from the Portland, OR. MINI dealer service rep (yep - she called me!) that they had finally received authorization for fix version #3, and that they are in the process of training a crew right now. Their first test car was a MINI S towed in from Montana ($$$) with a destroyed tensioner. Apparently the tensioner face had torn away. She also said they've had problems with malfunctioning tensioners that either didn't extend at all or just part way. Looks like the out-sourced "cheap parts" theory about chain tensioners may be the underlying culprit here.

The version 3.0 fix arriving here in the US appears to be the same as the UK version in my previous post. At minimum, we all get a new chain tensioner, and depending on installed measurements, new timing chain, guides, and sprockets may be replaced as well. Here's a link to the parts - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25. The Portland dealer expects to begin their informal customer recall in April when the new parts show up in quantity and the techs are ready.

Again, I commend the Portland OR MINI dealership for being honest and upfront with their customers on the death rattle issue. They want to get this debacle behind them as quickly as we do.

Hopefully, this fix will be "The One" ...

 

Kinda a newb question, but can someone tell me what PuMA stands for? I'm kinda assuming it has something to do with the bulletin the dealers use?

Now for the real issue, I just took my car in to a dealer (Crevier) to get some work done (wierd water noise when turning on the car or reving, cold start chatter, tailpipes, wind noise, etc...).

They said they did a bulletin check on the pressure of the VANOS, also added oil cuz it was low (they also OVERFILLED the oil.........). The cold start chatter is still as strong as ever, and they didn't fix any of my other problems either other then that tailpipe recall. I even told them exactly how to fix the water noise (bleed the coolant system), and they had the nerve to tell me the sound is NORMAL. To top it all off, they kept the car from thurs to monday; WTF were they doing the entire time?

I don't want to turn this into another dealer bash post, but if you're looking for a dealer that wont treat you like you're a complete retard and look down on you, stay away from Crevier in So-Cal!

On a side note, the latest chain fix OldMGguy is talking about, sounds very promising!

 

If there's a 5% chance that this will kill a motor to the point of total replacement, then there's just a 5% chance that the replacement is bad as well. So that comes out to be a 0.25% chance that one car would get two bad motors in a row.

Now if there's a 20% chance that it has the noise, and only a 5% chance that the motor cooks totally, then there's a 1% chance that a single owner would have a bad engine a replacement that made the noise.

The point that the poster was making is that if the estimates like I have done come down to a 2%-3% chance that there's a problem, the chance of a repeat problem if a real fix is applies is very, very low. The fact that there are total engine swaps that end up with the problem is very discouraging, and hints that the low percentage estimates are very optimistic. The reasoning behind this is statistically sound.

FWIW, if the current theory is that the tensioner isn't doing it's job and that the extra slack works to stretch the chain, then I'd be very worried that this won't be a fix again.

Also, the notion that it's a design flaw is only true when a manufacturer comes out with a new part isn't sound. All that is a signal of is that a company has decided to do some corrective action. There are many design flaws where no corrective action has ever been taken, like the strut towers on the first gen new Minis, for just one example.

Matt

 

Well, I took my MCS to dealership last Friday. They kept it over the weekend sitting and contacted me on Monday afternoon saying they cannot duplicate the problem. I even took a portable digital recorder and recorded the "death rattle" I took off the Mini2 site so they could hear it. They said as long as they couldn't duplicate the sound, there's nothing they could do. Luckily, it hasn't happened again, but I have a good feeling it probably will. What's a lady to do?

 

they're acting like they don't know about the issue, and that's BS. But it's true that they won't get approval to do work without confirming there's a problem...

Matt

 

just read oldMGguy's posting about Portland, Ore. replacing tensioner version #3. What about here in California? Anything going to be happening here for the "death rattle"?

 

The latest chain tensioner rattle fix should be available at all US MINI dealers as soon as they get parts and techs trained. Might be April at the earliest.

In the meantime, drive that car like it was designed to be driven! If there's a pattern to the rattle occurrance, take notes. Keep the cell phone/ digital camera handy for a short movie and audio if you do get the rattle, and clearly show the license plate. Voiceover with date, time, start info, etc.

Keep buggin the dealer after each occurrance. Be very clear/precise as to the noise you're hearing - metal-on-metal rpm-related clatter from the right front side of the car. The tensioner rattle sounds like a bicycle chain being dragged across a metal pipe. The R56 motor does make a lot of other noises - which are always present. The vacuum pump has a chuffing sound and is usually the most noticable noise from the engine bay. The fuel injectors make a clicking sound, and the turbo mechanism will whine and pop on occasion. All those noises are indeed normal, if a bit louder than what the typical Japanese motor would make.

Work at this from the dealer's viewpoint. They will get reimbursed from BMW only if they can validate the chain rattle. Use every one of your free maintenance visits to log the complaint with the service rep.

 

You've heard the death rattle engine noises from these sorts of clips before, but the exasperated narrative added by the unfortunate owner in so few words pretty well sums up the pent up frustration of so many R55/R56 owners:



Incidentally, this poor chap over on MINI2 had service done on 3-10-09 to replace his timing chain tensioner. That fact is a bit scary, as it may be an early sign that Tensioner v3.0 may not be getting at the root of the problem. Others have had replacements and continue rattle free. Probably too early to start drawing conclusions.

 

Without reading 38 pages of threads, has anybody experienced a cold-start SQUEAL? My new Zuggy gives out a nice little "OINK" with my first start of the day. This began right after his first oil change (1,100 miles). There is also a new 'small' chatter when the engine is cold, but it disappears within a few minutes of driving.

Thoughts?

 

Cold start rattle is a whole different animal, but I dunno about the "small" chatter. It's just a noisy engine at idle, what with DI etc.

 

Agreed. The fact that there are already reports of the problem returning with 'Tensioner 3.0' is not a good sign; here's hoping they get it right with version 4.0.

 

Mine is only 17 days old and has already started the death rattle. A call to the dealer this morning got me no where. My SA said they have gotten a lot of calls about this, but says it is normal. I'm so sick over this I can't even look at the car right now

 

Just remember, it's not Yum Yum's fault. She probably needs your love now more than ever. She just needs to find the right doctor, who can make her feel better.

 

Amazing.

MJS from Landcaster, UK reports that he's had an '07 MCS, a replacement engine in this same '07 MCS, a entire replacement MINI ('08 MCS), and an '08 Clubman S -- and they have ALL exhibited the cold start death rattle!

What are the odds of THAT happening if the issue is so rare, as many claim?

 

it's whatever to the fourth! But if he's got some location that tends to promote that (like short run times and parking on a slight incline) that could bias the number. But really, it's a very, very small number. But then agian, there's only one that has reported that frequency....

There are about 700k plus cars with the Prince... So 1 in 700K?

Matt

 

Man, that guy is a glutton for punishment. Are you sure he doesn't enjoy all the problems he has had? Or maybe he has a thing for his service advisor...

Seriously, that is nuts. Not only do some claim it is rare, some claim a potential buyer should overlook things like this because all cars break.

 

Thanx n773lk, I took your advise and calmed down and spent some bonding time washing her and giving her a coat of wax....

 

this may have been mentioned before. it could be that the "death rattle" is not caused by a design flaw, but a mistake made during the manufacturing process. my '08 mcs has only sounded loud for a moment after starting and only a few times. so far, after 21,000 miles, i am extremely happy with my car.

 

My Sept build 09 S had the rattle once, at 2400 miles, about 2 months ago. It now has about 3300 miles, and has not done it since. What Ive done different is every time I power down the car, if it will sit for 6+ hours, is rev the engine to 3K then hit the stop button. I dont think it's the chain tensioner, I believe it's excessive valve lash and oil drain out of (and air fed into) the Hydraulic Lash Adjusters, coupled with a dead cold engine and quirks within the on-demand oil delivery system, that creates that metallic clanking noise; only when the air is replaced by oil, and the engine's metals heat up and expand, does the sound go away. I believe by revving the engine before power-down, this delivers a burst of oil to the HLAs and prevents oil from draining out and aereating the HLAs.

I could be completely off-base here, but V 3.0 fix is not working. BMW needs to look at the HLAs and the on-demand oil delivery system--indeed the entire valve train assembly--as the probable culprits. Oh and it's been plenty cold each AM after my first experience with the rattle, and it has not reappeared since I started to rev the engine before power down, even after NOT driving the car for a couple days. My parking spot is also dead-level; the fact that parking the car with the nose down, and the frequency of the rattle then, points to HLA oil drain...

Let us know how it goes for you and YumYum

 

Interesting clip, but when I had my one instance of the rattle/knock, it was MUCH louder inside the car than out. I really couldnt hear it outside (because DI is pretty loud) but inside it was LOUD, esp when I opened my glovebox to make note. Sounded like someone hitting sheet metal with a hammer.

Also for any noobs to this like YumYum: the car will idle perfectly while knocking, no codes, no cel lights, etc. that's what makes it so insidious--maybe if codes were being thrown, BMW could pinpoint the problem.

 

Just curious if anyone else has tried and/or is having success using sequence's shut down technique. Whatever the reason, if it works as well as advertised it could go a long way for folks to save unnecessary wear and tear on their engines until such time as BMW gets their act together.

It's unfortunate that one must go to these lengths, but it's certainly better than having to replace a broken motor.

 

Personally I think this is partially right. I do believe there is a problem with the chain tensioner as there are cars being reported with slipped cam chains and worse (broken cam chains). But I don't think it's causing most of the noise.

http://www.r56mcs.com/index.php?PHPS...fb9&topic=20.0

As for the noise, the HLA explaination sounds spot on, and would explain why some get it and some don't.

 

Well I have taken my car into the dealer and they replaced the chain tensioners. I have 900 miles since and no death rattle. I assume they fixed it for good. The part took excessively long to get here, apparently MINI is replacing a lot of 2007 tensioners.
Oh ya, now my Roof window is acting up.

 

Well, I just took my anti-depressants and feeling good since the rain here went away hopefully for good for the year. Chin up, Big Mac, at least everyone on this board can afford a nice car! FWIW, my brand new 1992 Porsche C2 Targa gave me nightmares for about two years before all the kinks were worked out (incl a roof that leaked in the rain every effing time). I even sued Porsche under California's lemon law act and lost 2-1 (required arbitration panel) bec I allowed Porsche to keep the car "as long as necessary to fix" the roof. Therefore subtracting that service I didn't have the requisite 30 days out of service requirement. Pissed is not the word for my reaction. Anyway, the last 10 years were perfectly fine and I grew to love that car. A friend has had it for 5 years now with no big problems. SO I guess what I'm saying is get mad and then let it go. Easy to say I know, but I've been there.