Cold start chatter
#1002
I can't say I'm terribly surprised, after all of the other 'fixes' that didn't fix the problem. It is very frustrating, though.
#1003
I got my car back from the dealer yesterday after having the newest tensior parts installed...
The car then proceeded to rattle right there in the dealers lot - I showed the SA but he was unsure of what they could do being that they just replaced the parts
<--- Beating head against the wall
The car then proceeded to rattle right there in the dealers lot - I showed the SA but he was unsure of what they could do being that they just replaced the parts
<--- Beating head against the wall
I've read of one instance in the UK last month where they only replaced the tensioner and didn't fix the problem. After replacing all of the potentially affected components, the rattle seemed to disappear. One SA in the U.S. is on record (in this thread) as saying that BMW/MINI has formally directed replacing everything.
The other thing that makes me a little suspicious is that a lot of service departments are reporting (whether true or not) six-week back order wait times to get the latest and greatest tensioner...and they only first appeared in the parts inventory in early March.
The itemized listing of the parts on the work order might reveal some clues.
Here's the complete list of what SHOULD be replaced, courtesy of OldMGguy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25
#1005
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Here's the complete list of what SHOULD be replaced, courtesy of OldMGguy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25
reason I ask about VANOS is that my SA told me if it's malfunctioning in any way it'll throw a code.
#1006
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.msg88780#msg88780
#1007
See this excellent explanation of timing chain excessive slack problems
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.msg88780#msg88780
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.msg88780#msg88780
We should probably do a better job socializing the NHTSA IVOQ site over here on NAM. Everyone experiencing the issue should take the initiative and file a report. As Tom points out in the other forum, NHTSA won't initiate anything until they get a sufficient number of complaints.
For sequence: A day and a half was a pretty good SWAG on your part -- it appears from owner reports that it takes two days.
#1008
We should probably do a better job socializing the NHTSA IVOQ site over here on NAM. Everyone experiencing the issue should take the initiative and file a report. As Tom points out in the other forum, NHTSA won't initiate anything until they get a sufficient number of complaints.
Sent mine in today - wasn't too painful to wade thru.
Sent mine in today - wasn't too painful to wade thru.
#1009
Did they replace the timing chain, VANOS, sprockets, and guides along with the new tensioner, or just the tensioner?
I've read of one instance in the UK last month where they only replaced the tensioner and didn't fix the problem. After replacing all of the potentially affected components, the rattle seemed to disappear. One SA in the U.S. is on record (in this thread) as saying that BMW/MINI has formally directed replacing everything.
The other thing that makes me a little suspicious is that a lot of service departments are reporting (whether true or not) six-week back order wait times to get the latest and greatest tensioner...and they only first appeared in the parts inventory in early March.
The itemized listing of the parts on the work order might reveal some clues.
Here's the complete list of what SHOULD be replaced, courtesy of OldMGguy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25
I've read of one instance in the UK last month where they only replaced the tensioner and didn't fix the problem. After replacing all of the potentially affected components, the rattle seemed to disappear. One SA in the U.S. is on record (in this thread) as saying that BMW/MINI has formally directed replacing everything.
The other thing that makes me a little suspicious is that a lot of service departments are reporting (whether true or not) six-week back order wait times to get the latest and greatest tensioner...and they only first appeared in the parts inventory in early March.
The itemized listing of the parts on the work order might reveal some clues.
Here's the complete list of what SHOULD be replaced, courtesy of OldMGguy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25
Thanks for the heads up!
#1010
I believe I have a good relationship with my SA at this point... and what makes me feel better is that HIS Cooper S does the same thing
#1011
Here is exactly what is on my receipt:
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
#1012
Here is exactly what is on my receipt:
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
#1013
My Jan '09 build R55 has started doing this, it's done it about 6 times since I took delivery in late Feb, it now has 2k miles and it's getting more frequent it seems..........
I called my dealer and of course they know about it, but said they'd done "the fix" on one of their in service cars and it didn't fix it, so they were reluctant to do the same to my car - although they said they would if I wanted them to. I asked them to put a note in my service file.
The other day I backed the car out of the driveway and parked it on the street - no noise. Later that day my wife drove it to work and as she left I could clearly hear it rattling all the way up the block and around the next corner! It was about 60* that afternoon, so I think it's more engine temp being cold than actual ambient temp, and I think you all are on to something when you say it happens after being run for a very short time then restarted later, although I have had it do it from a fresh start in the AM.
It does stop after a bit, but like others here, I am not happy about this after spending $30 large for a car.............I'm spoiled since my R53 has been a trouble free jewel since the day I got it...............
Edit: I also filed out the NHSTA form
I called my dealer and of course they know about it, but said they'd done "the fix" on one of their in service cars and it didn't fix it, so they were reluctant to do the same to my car - although they said they would if I wanted them to. I asked them to put a note in my service file.
The other day I backed the car out of the driveway and parked it on the street - no noise. Later that day my wife drove it to work and as she left I could clearly hear it rattling all the way up the block and around the next corner! It was about 60* that afternoon, so I think it's more engine temp being cold than actual ambient temp, and I think you all are on to something when you say it happens after being run for a very short time then restarted later, although I have had it do it from a fresh start in the AM.
It does stop after a bit, but like others here, I am not happy about this after spending $30 large for a car.............I'm spoiled since my R53 has been a trouble free jewel since the day I got it...............
Edit: I also filed out the NHSTA form
Last edited by MINIdave; 04-16-2009 at 05:43 PM.
#1014
I called my dealer and of course they know about it, but said they'd done "the fix" on one of their in service cars and it didn't fix it, so they were reluctant to do the same to my car - although they said they would if I wanted them to. I asked them to put a note in my service file.
Edit: I also filed out the NHSTA form
Edit: I also filed out the NHSTA form
Take your car back, and request the latest repair as per the BMW directive, current as of March 2009, which says the entire timing chain system is to be replaced in order to properly fix the start-up chain rattle problem.
#1015
Here is exactly what is on my receipt:
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:
13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }
Take it back and demand they research the very latest BMW directive on this issue, which states the entire timing chain system is to be replaced. Your car demonstrates why!
#1016
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Keep in mind that most of your SA's are not certified mechanics. They're customer relation people who are there to listen to customer rants, and do scheduling. They also pick up on mechanical issues as a course of the job, and may not be current on the latest repair, as in this case.
#1017
A Vote for MINI / BMW
We should probably do a better job socializing the NHTSA IVOQ site over here on NAM. Everyone experiencing the issue should take the initiative and file a report. As Tom points out in the other forum, NHTSA won't initiate anything until they get a sufficient number of complaints.
When I had repeated issues with my 2007 MCSm, I contacted MINI USA, and they took care of me in a positive and sympathetic manner.
I have been very pleased with MINI USA, BMW, Patrick MINI, and MINI of St. Louis, in dealing with the issues I have had, including the cold start clatter and frozen throttle.
Last edited by oldsbear; 04-17-2009 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Incomplete comment
#1018
The timing chain tensioner piston part number on your invoice is indeed the latest version. Obviously by the continued chain rattle, your car has other damaged parts that should have been removed - stretched chain, damaged tensioner face or guides, damaged sprockets.
Take it back and demand they research the very latest BMW directive on this issue, which states the entire timing chain system is to be replaced. Your car demonstrates why!
Take it back and demand they research the very latest BMW directive on this issue, which states the entire timing chain system is to be replaced. Your car demonstrates why!
#1019
So, what's an appropriate threshhold?
Is this really a NHTSA problem? I'd prefer that the government not get involved, in any case.
When I had repeated issues with my 2007 MCSm, I contacted MINI USA, and they took care of me in a positive and sympathetic manner.
I have been very pleased with MINI USA, BMW, Patrick MINI, and MINI of St. Louis, in dealing with the issues I have had, including the cold start clatter and frozen throttle.
When I had repeated issues with my 2007 MCSm, I contacted MINI USA, and they took care of me in a positive and sympathetic manner.
I have been very pleased with MINI USA, BMW, Patrick MINI, and MINI of St. Louis, in dealing with the issues I have had, including the cold start clatter and frozen throttle.
Matt
#1020
Maybe if you told her that there are thousands of MINI enthusiasts online who are putting her on a pedestal as an example of exemplary customer service, she might do you a favor.
#1021
All those who believe MINI wants this problem to go uncorrected, please raise your wrench.
#1022
The BMW directive is PuMA Measure 10686850-13. PuMA is the German acronym for fixing defective products. This is the "Replace Everything" directive. Measure 10686850-12 released 2/24/2009, is the previous repair directive, wherein everyone got the new redesigned tensioner, but the existing chain was only measured for stretching. Only if out of limits would other parts be replaced. US MINI dealers were not happy with the limited nature of the -12 measure, as they saw continuing future problems with other damaged parts in the timing chain system - as Torobud has unfortunately just demonstrated.
#1023
#1024
I don't agree at all...
Matt
#1025