Yup, mine was the timing chain. Dealership called me and told me it was a bit loose, and they were gonna replace it all.

Also, the reason why I brought it in to begin with was because I got a red CEL indicating I should turn it off immediately. It also loped and had a very sporadic idle like it was hard getting fuel or something. Cold start mind you, ready to leave back to base, hadn't been run since the day before.

Long story short, it was condencation in the intake manifold that had freezed up. They're replacing the whole intake manifold. They say it could be from short drives and startups, but the last time it moved, I had driven on the highway maybe 10 miles and a total of a 25 minute drive. It wasn't a spirt to the driveway. Granted the temperature was in the single digits all night and day before I left, so if there was ANY water in there, it would definitely be frozen.

Something for you all to chew on if you ever get in this situation.

 

Can anyone confirm and get us a pdf copy of a revised version of SIM-11-02-07? I recently had mine (12/08 build) in for the full monty repair and they used several different part numbers than in the June version of the bulletin. Specifically my part numbers that varied:
timing chain tensioner - 11-31-7-597-895
shaft seal - 11-11-7-568-264
sprocket - 11-21-7-588-996

Is it possible they have again changed the tensioner and sprocket?

 

That is the tensioner part they replaced on my MCS a couple of weeks ago, but I can't tell you if it is the latest part (I certainly hope it is).

 

There is an extensive, separate discussion thread on this intake freeze up issue that includes info on the associated fix if you're interested:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...available.html

It's usually manifested in a yellow (vice red) CEL. Probably severity dependent.

 

Just got my Mini back from repair of the cold start rattle. My Mini is a 2008 MCSa with 30K miles. The rattle was infrequent for me and I didn't think it was that serious but the chain was out of spec (68.34 mm vs 68 mm) so the 'full monte' repair was warranted and consisted of timing chain, tensioner (listed twice in the invoice for some reason as parts 1 11-31-7-534-833 and 1 11-31-7-597-895), and 14 other parts. The shop manager says he's performed many of these repairs and none has come back a second time. Hope he's right.

While diagnosing my car they also discovered misfires in cylinders 3 & 4. This was strange because I hadn't noticed anything unusual with the car's performance except for a short 'check engine' light appearance two weeks ago. They said the misfire was due to 'carbon buildup on intake valves', diagnosed with a boroscope. Apparently this is a common problem as well. The shop manager acknowledged it was an engine issue and not due to 'bad gas'. BMW/MINI does not have a fix for it so he said it will recur in time. This does not give me a warm fuzzy. They performed an 'intake valve cleaning procedure' and 'fuel injection cleaning procedure' at no cost. They took pictures of the carbon buildup ostensibly to help corporate develop a fix. The shop manager said the problem is not limited to Mini. He said VW, BMW, and Mercedes all have the same problem (with VW having it the worst) and are trying to come up with fixes.

Drove it for 100 miles today. Didn't notice any change in performance after these fixes were applied as compared to before, but it's pretty early.

Update: After doing more stop/go driving I subjectively feel that the car is more responsive and less hesitant off-the-line since the misfire correction and tune-up was performed.

- John

 

John - Nice write-up

Now I've got a question to throw out to the experts (I'm not). This engine uses direct fuel injection. No fuel touches the intake valves on the intake stroke (just filtered air). Why would a closed intake valve be more suseptible to carbon build-up than the exhaust valve? Is the magic BMW valve cleaner anything different from the $3 can of STP/NAPA/Chevron injector cleaner?

 

You can find more info in these threads:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...in-engine.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n-engines.html

I believe that the carbon is from the crankcase ventilation (PCV). Because the engine has direct injection, fuel never touches the back of the intake valves. So, additives in the fuel cannot clean the valves. Injector cleaner is useless in this situation because it never gets to where the problem is.

Some people are injecting a product called Sea Foam into the PCV hose to clean the carbon out. That may be similar to what dealers are doing.

 

Sort of. They've actually been working on a way to remove the intake manifold and clean off the valves that way. As stated above, the most amazing cleaner in the world could be added into the fuel system and wouldn't help as it never touches the valves

I've seen S's with 14k on it and the valves were covered in carbon. Lots of BMW's are in the same boat with the direct injection - not entirely sure why they set it up that way, maybe they thought there'd never be an issue...but I was shocked to see it. The random misfires will go unnoticed by most, aside from the occasional CEL, but it's something that can get worse if not caught early on.

 

mictck,
I have the same nosie in my 2008 Clubman S 6,000 miles. Your description fits exactly. Please keep us posted on what happens...

For those interested, here's a brief update. Car is going to dealer this afternoon for a week to let them figure it out.

I let the car sit for the past 8 days, unstarted. This morning I cranked it up, I hear the following:

1. A quick bbbrrrpppp noise for about a second, then stops. This is without a doubt a slack timing chain, my old 167k mile Mercedes makes exactly the same noise after its been sitting for awhile. I would classify this as nearly normal, no oil in tensioner at all, then it quickly pressurizes. This is to be expected after such long time undriven.

2. The god-awful dieseling sound, just like in those posted videos on Mini2. Lasts for about 30 seconds; while I'm standing there listening to it, it abruptly stops, the car is just idling as normal, with some rising and dropping of idle speed. soft deep tapping noise evident.

3. Sitting in car, I gently raise the revs and release, loud raspy rattling resonates at about 1500-2000rpm, then drops off. Loose heat shield? Chain still slack and slapping around? Faulty lifters?

Anyway, its impossible this could be classified as normal behavior. My Dad's '06 2.4 liter 4cyl Camry is stone quiet at startup, cold or warm.

 

Snorider: Your noise description is dead on for a partially extended chain tensioner. Take it to the dealer asap, before the loose chain tears up the rest of the rails and guides. Until then, once the noise stops after a minute or two, things are properly tensioned, let 'er rip. SIM-11-02-07 is the repair bulletin.

 

I went to pick up mine on Saturday, and when I started it up, it had a very slight ruff idle, enough that the tach was pulsing a bit. Something I've never seen a MINI do. I went ahead and took and drove off thinking it may be just the computer re-calibrating, yet it never really went away after about 30 mins of driving. Was that a symptom as well?

Then had a yellow CEL come on for about 30 seconds, enough time to turn around and head back to the dealership, then turned off. I got back to dealer, they heard the mishap in the idle the second they walked out the door. (tach was still pulsing) As they brought it in, the CEL came back on, and it read misfire on pistons 3 and 4. Did you have the pulsing in the idle as well? They found a vacuum line that was disconnected, but it didn't help the idle get back to normal. Needless to say, they gave me the loaner back.

 

I had misfires when my HPFP was failing. I also had the fluctuating RPMs. check out the video

http://vimeo.com/5729061

 

Mine has been doing the same thing a couple times within the past week...

 

Cold Start Knock, as described by Snorider #2, does not cause the car to run rough or throw codes. It just sounds like the most obnoxious diesel on the planet until the oil warms up enough to send oil to the valve lash adjusters, hence the "tapping" noise he also describes, the engine warms up, metals expand, and everything is back in happy engineering tolerance land.

 

as far as #2 goes, next time you will let the car sit long enough to let the engine go dead-cold, say 6+ hours, try the rev-to-3K shutdown method.

It's easy. Just before you power off, slowly rev your engine to 3K, hold for half a sec, then hit the button while at 3K. The theory behind this, backed by my Toyota mechanic whose Mitsu Eclipse had the same problem, is that you are sending enough oil at shutdown to the lash adjusters so they stay full as the engine cools down--hence enough oil at startup to prevent that knock.

Generally this seems to work better for cars that have knocked only a couple times, like my 09 MCSa did last winter. 7K and nearly a year later, no knocks at all, even after sitting idle for 10 + days in subzero weather.

As far as #3, that sounds like the timing chain rattling against something. My Toy truck at 273K did this, and it was partially due to my guides being shot and the chain on its last legs. Fix: whole new top-end job.

 

It's BACKKKK!!!

So it has been a little over a week since mine was back from the dealership; 09 with about 9,000 miles built in 3/09. SA indicated the oil was low and they ended up adding about a quart which seem to take care of it for several days. Then it sat in the garage for several days and this morning I pulled it out hearing the exact same "chatter" when revving the engine.

Still not clear how recent is this issue effecting production models. For example, the SA look at the Service Bulletin I took in and it indicated: From start of production up to November 28th, 2008. He had called me up and told me while it was there that the problem was low oil and the service bulletin didn't involve mine due to the dates????? Is this accurate or not? He also went on to indicate a production modification was made around the end of 08/early 09 to address this problem, but now causes the engine to slightly use more oil.

 

Here's my theory: A redesign of the tensioner spring was developed for production starting after 11/08. They came to realize later that this change was not sufficient so they revised the tensioner again. This theory is based on reading about many cars that had the repair done with tensioner 11 31 7 598 956 and seemed to be acting up again, and also that mine, which was repaired a couple of weeks ago did not get the same tensioner part number that was specified in the June 09 technical bulletin (11 31 7 598 956), rather they used part # 11 31 7 597 895. My car fortunately is still OK in terms of the death rattle. What do you all think?

 

After the redesign of the tensioner spring that went into production around 11/08, do you know when the 2nd revision was then made?

As of today, the service bulletin though is only effective through 11/08 correct? Any indication BMW will be revising this?

When did you MINI go through Production?

 

Now the problem is happening even after just sitting in the cold for over night. This is after driving the car for 40 minutes @ highway speeds and then parking overnight. It was about 20-30 degrees last night. But it has been that cold here for the past 2 months.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/willsisti/4269094018/

What should i do?

 

I have an 09 S, automatic with 6,000 miles and have experienced the noise twice on cold starts. The car has now been sitting in the garage for 12 days in cold temp. (10-25 degrees) I will start it tonight to see if the problem occurs. Has anyone installed a pre-start oil pump on their mini? I have not had a chance to see if one is made for the mini. I know a friend of mine installed one on a Shelby GT 500 to avoid starting the engine without oil pressure.

 

Lemon Law before you run out of time? (Illinois is 1 year)

Mine has been doing this for all three years of it's life and been to the dealer for multiple trys at a fix including replacing the entire timing chain and supporting components... yet it still rattles like crazy...

 

Well darn it! Our '09 R57 S finally did it yesterday morning after sitting for ten days. The car has about 6K miles on it and sits in a 'semi-heated' attached garage (always above 45F). We purchased it in July '09, but it has a build date of May '09. The clatter went away after about 15 seconds, but we're going to get this thing into the service queue ASAP.

So much for the "March '09" theory of revised parts... Being a rider of BMW motorcycles, I'm used to being a beta tester for BMW.

... until then we're driving Old Reliable ('03 Subaru).

 

Wow this is getting bad.

This happened again after sitting from 930 to about 1pm.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/willsisti/4269588609/

 

I've attached the PDF if anybody needs it.

BTW, the latest Chain Tensioner posted on MINI Genuine Parts (UK) is 11.31.7.597.895, which is a different part then the one specified in SIM110207. Hmmm

Ric

 

Sounds pretty bad, Flyinace2000. The cold weather exacerbates the problem. You need to bring her in for the timing belt/tensioner fix and that should eliminate the rattle.