Cold start chatter
#1501
01-19-2010, 12:44 PM
1st Gear
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mid-Ohio
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It's the rattly, old clattering diesel sound. My Subaru did it once after sitting for a month in sub-freezing temperatures, and I've also heard it on a 4 cylinder Kawasaki motorcycle that had a stuck timing chain adjuster.
I could understand it if the car was a $10K Kia or had 150K miles on it. But this car is $$ and has very low miles...
We'll take it in if it does it again.
I could understand it if the car was a $10K Kia or had 150K miles on it. But this car is $$ and has very low miles...
We'll take it in if it does it again.
Last edited by Quinoa; 01-19-2010 at 12:50 PM.
#1502
01-19-2010, 05:56 PM
It's the rattly, old clattering diesel sound. My Subaru did it once after sitting for a month in sub-freezing temperatures, and I've also heard it on a 4 cylinder Kawasaki motorcycle that had a stuck timing chain adjuster.
I could understand it if the car was a $10K Kia or had 150K miles on it. But this car is $$ and has very low miles...
We'll take it in if it does it again.
I could understand it if the car was a $10K Kia or had 150K miles on it. But this car is $$ and has very low miles...
We'll take it in if it does it again.
#1503
01-20-2010, 10:50 AM
#1504
01-20-2010, 10:55 AM
(my SA told me monday that some of the timing chain/tensioner problem cars he's looked at were all nearly 1 quart of oil short when brought in. I replied that if the GERMANS designed a DIPSTICK that wasnt so ****ing CRYPTIC maybe this wouldnt happen. Funny thing: he agreed!)
#1505
01-20-2010, 01:09 PM
#1509
01-21-2010, 08:26 AM
Good news. I am dropping off my car on tuesday next week. My SA spoke w/ the shop foreman who believes that my car is affected by the timing chain issue (shocking 
). They are having someone from MINI corporate (their offices are about 15 minutes away) come down to take a look at my car. So hopefully by next week my car will be chatter free!
). They are having someone from MINI corporate (their offices are about 15 minutes away) come down to take a look at my car. So hopefully by next week my car will be chatter free!
#1510
01-21-2010, 02:56 PM
Let's hope the second time does it...
Had the vehicle in a couple of weeks ago the first time for the cold start chatter (the good old diesel engine sound). The SA indicated the oil was about a quart low and that was causing the problem. So the topped off the oil and sent me on my way as he indicated the Service Bulletin from BMW was effective through Nov 2008 and mine was not effected since it was made in 03/09.
About two weeks later, started it up one morning and thought oh no, not again, my diesel engine is back! Made a recording of it this time. So I made another appointment.
The timing chain stretch was 65.4mm, which they indicated was actually ok. The SA informed me they went ahead and replaced the Chain Tensioner; part number 11-31-7-597-895. He went on to say the BMW has instructed them on the first service visit to top off the oil. Then if the customer complains about it again, then the Chain Tensioner is replaced. Let's just hope it takes care of it this time.
Going forward, would it be best to rev the engine at 3,000 RPMs before shutting it off each time to avoid any further related issues or should this not be necessary?
Had the vehicle in a couple of weeks ago the first time for the cold start chatter (the good old diesel engine sound). The SA indicated the oil was about a quart low and that was causing the problem. So the topped off the oil and sent me on my way as he indicated the Service Bulletin from BMW was effective through Nov 2008 and mine was not effected since it was made in 03/09.
About two weeks later, started it up one morning and thought oh no, not again, my diesel engine is back! Made a recording of it this time. So I made another appointment.
The timing chain stretch was 65.4mm, which they indicated was actually ok. The SA informed me they went ahead and replaced the Chain Tensioner; part number 11-31-7-597-895. He went on to say the BMW has instructed them on the first service visit to top off the oil. Then if the customer complains about it again, then the Chain Tensioner is replaced. Let's just hope it takes care of it this time.
Going forward, would it be best to rev the engine at 3,000 RPMs before shutting it off each time to avoid any further related issues or should this not be necessary?
Just picked up my MCS from Rasmussen MINI in PDX after it's third trip in for rattling timing chain issues. This car received the full SIM-11-02-07 in May 2009, and the "death rattle" started again in late October after 3,500 miles.
I sent a registered letter to the BMW MINI Customer Relations office in Westwood, NJ (address p.27 Service and Warranty Info book), and contacted the service advisor manager at Rasmussen MINI. The NJ office called me about a week later to verify the information and to coordinate another repair. The car was dropped off in PDX Dec 28 and returned Jan 12, 2010. A loaner MINI Cooper was provided.
The techs ended up replacing the chain tensioner piston yet again after verifying all the almost-new parts from the last repair were still in tolerence (65.8 mm deflection). So far, all is quiet.
Here's the interesting part. Since May, 2009, BMW MINI has revised the tensioner piston part number twice! The absolute latest mod is part # 11-31-7-597-895. If you've had your chain tensioner replaced earlier than fall 2009, you may have an outdated part. Whatever part was installed into your engine will be listed on the invoice you received. So, if the morning death rattle starts up again, suspect an outdated tensioner.
I wish to pass on a "Thanks" to the folks at Rasmussen MINI - PDX for being straight-up about the problem, and pleasant to deal with.
I sent a registered letter to the BMW MINI Customer Relations office in Westwood, NJ (address p.27 Service and Warranty Info book), and contacted the service advisor manager at Rasmussen MINI. The NJ office called me about a week later to verify the information and to coordinate another repair. The car was dropped off in PDX Dec 28 and returned Jan 12, 2010. A loaner MINI Cooper was provided.
The techs ended up replacing the chain tensioner piston yet again after verifying all the almost-new parts from the last repair were still in tolerence (65.8 mm deflection). So far, all is quiet.
Here's the interesting part. Since May, 2009, BMW MINI has revised the tensioner piston part number twice! The absolute latest mod is part # 11-31-7-597-895. If you've had your chain tensioner replaced earlier than fall 2009, you may have an outdated part. Whatever part was installed into your engine will be listed on the invoice you received. So, if the morning death rattle starts up again, suspect an outdated tensioner.
I wish to pass on a "Thanks" to the folks at Rasmussen MINI - PDX for being straight-up about the problem, and pleasant to deal with.
#1511
01-21-2010, 05:53 PM
Can't hurt. It doesn't help for my car, but I think some people have had success doing it.
#1512
01-22-2010, 05:21 AM
PM mail me for how it's done. Keep us posted.
Last edited by sequence; 01-22-2010 at 11:09 AM.
#1513
01-27-2010, 02:42 PM
#1514
01-27-2010, 04:08 PM
1st Gear
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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#1516
01-28-2010, 02:31 PM
Just got back, here is what my invoice states
This was done on Jan 28th 2010 on a 09 MCS (03/09 build date)
Client states he is still having the same noise from ethe engine as last visit. Please check and advise.
Started vehicle - noise was coming from the timing chain. Removed intake box and tensioner. Used special told to measure the slack of the chain: 75mm. Vehicle is not in the production date of bulletin# M 11 02 07. But the tensioner is the older style. As per shop foreman: refer to the bulletin and replace the timing chain, guides and tensioner.
Removed valve cover, R/F tire, splash guard slackened front support, removed vibration damper, friction wheel, belt tensioner, motor mount, replaced the timing chain, guides and tensioner. Reinstalled all parts. Started vehicle and noise was no longer present
PARTS USED:
PKTIMINGCHAIN - Timing Chain
11-36-7-545-863 Torx Bolt
11-36-7-536-087 Torx Bolt
11-21-7-585-184 Hex Bolt
11-21-7-588-996 Sprocket
11-31-7-568-241 Guide rail
11-31-7-597-895 Chain Tensioner
11-31-7-534-784 Timing Chain
11-31-7-534-833 Chain Tensioner (twice???)
11-31-7-546-697 Slide Rail
11-31-7-534-251 Gasket Ring
11-31-7-534-768 Bearing Bolt
11-31-7-534-771 Bearing Bolt
11-31-7-550-461 Gasket Ring
Started vehicle - noise was coming from the timing chain. Removed intake box and tensioner. Used special told to measure the slack of the chain: 75mm. Vehicle is not in the production date of bulletin# M 11 02 07. But the tensioner is the older style. As per shop foreman: refer to the bulletin and replace the timing chain, guides and tensioner.
Removed valve cover, R/F tire, splash guard slackened front support, removed vibration damper, friction wheel, belt tensioner, motor mount, replaced the timing chain, guides and tensioner. Reinstalled all parts. Started vehicle and noise was no longer present
PARTS USED:
PKTIMINGCHAIN - Timing Chain
11-36-7-545-863 Torx Bolt
11-36-7-536-087 Torx Bolt
11-21-7-585-184 Hex Bolt
11-21-7-588-996 Sprocket
11-31-7-568-241 Guide rail
11-31-7-597-895 Chain Tensioner
11-31-7-534-784 Timing Chain
11-31-7-534-833 Chain Tensioner (twice???)
11-31-7-546-697 Slide Rail
11-31-7-534-251 Gasket Ring
11-31-7-534-768 Bearing Bolt
11-31-7-534-771 Bearing Bolt
11-31-7-550-461 Gasket Ring
Last edited by Flyinace2000; 01-28-2010 at 07:58 PM.
#1517
01-28-2010, 06:37 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kansas
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Thanks Flyinace2000. Please document date this was done. My MCS was repaired on 12/28 and all the same parts were used plus I had a complete set of profile gaskets 11-12-7-572-851 and a shaft seal 11-11-7-568-264. My gasket ring was part # 11-31-7-550-461. I didn't realize they had to drop the wheel, motor mount splash shield, etc. We should track any changes MINI makes to the parts installed, by date. Mine is still ok after one month.
#1519
01-28-2010, 10:13 PM
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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My 07 S has been doing this since it was new. Whenever it was colder than 15-25 degrees F. It would stop within a few minutes. Last Sunday it did it as usual but it didn't stop as I drove the 5 miles to church. I started it up again a few hours later and it did it again. I parked it and called the dealer on Monday. They said to bring it in (150 miles from home.) I started it and it sounded even worse. I called the dealer back and they had a tow service pick it up on Tuesday. Today they told me it had spun the cam bearing and possibly caused some additional damage. They are pulling the head and I still don't know what all has happened. It looks like I may not get it back for 10 days or more.
#1521
01-29-2010, 06:21 AM
#1522
01-29-2010, 08:21 AM
#1523
01-29-2010, 08:38 AM
#1524
01-29-2010, 08:50 AM
Ended up being a timing issue. They are adjusting it while i wait. Time to stock up on free coffee and wifi.
#1525
01-29-2010, 10:02 AM
I listened to your video clip Fly, and I encourage anyone who has the cold rattle to do the same. Mine was doing it, and the first thing the dealer did was change the timing belt tensioner brackets, apparently there is a pretty significant issue with them. To everyone else, if your dealer won't fix it, find one that will. You don't even want to know what will happen if your timing chain slips.