Of the five times mine has done it over 26,000 miles it has done it at temperatures above 60 degrees two times. In my case, at least, it is not limited to cold temperatures.

 

Princeton is a big fan of the word 'normal' I have had my car in for the rattle and for smoke on startup and they just tell me its par for the course. I am now enjoying my remanufactured transmission. They said 'new' ones aren't available. Is there some change to the 2008 model in the trans that I dont know about that makes a 2007 new replacement not available?? Anyway, mine rattles most days I start it up. I'm quite certain they are not planning to do anything about it. Especially when they never call me back! Let us know if Morristown has any fresh perspective on the matter.

 

I just wanted to add my 2 cents.... and by reading this thread I can totally understand why everyone is so frustrated with this issue.... But has anyone realized that the reason the Std. Mini doesn't have the " cold start " clatter is because it is not " Direct injection. " Only the Mini Cooper S has the direct injection, hence the noise...

Think about this, when gas is directly injected to the combustion chamber, the atomized gas is cold and being squirted in to a cold chamber.... cold piston.... etc. the properties of the ignition are different than a warm engine... or warmer ambient temp. and yes I know that it could be argued that if that were the case then it would happen all the time... but again, I'm just throwing this idea out there... and the people who have let it warm up for a few minutes, they have said that the sound dies down a few minutes or goes away...

I am no mechanic or do I claim to be.... but I am a gear head... and this thread just got me thinking...

 

The standard cooper does not have a carburetor...it is fuel injected just like the S....maybe the real problem is that the S motor relies on the turbo and does not have variable valve timing like the standard has?

 

The injectors on the "S" are definetly noisier than on the regular...Since the are in the combustion chamber, the pintle spring(hence the power to open and close them) is much stronger and will make more noise when slamming shut. Don't see any reason why being cold would affect this though.

Chad

 

It is my understanding that both the MC and MCS have VANOS technology regardless of N/A or turbocharging.

So what is the official line about this mess?

 

Although I've never heard it, it sure sounds like my diesel. What would be the conditions necessary to cause dieseling in a gasoline engine? Perhaps there's something wrong with the cold start conditons, (maybe too advanced?). Maybe readings could be taken with a recording OBDC scanner when it is happening?

 

The Std. cooper does have the double VANOS ( intake and exhaust ) that's why it doesn't need a throttle butterfly... the valve adjust on the fly for air to gas mixture....

I think the MCS just has the VANOS on the intake side and not the exhaust.... and ya i know the injectors are more noisy on the cooper S because it's a different kind of injector... try comparing the noise they make to other direct injectors ... they might be similar

As for the spring.... no idea... I just still think that the noise is the nature of the beast... another reason it could sound like a diesel is because most modern day diesels are direct injection too... but ya i know that diesels are going to be louder because of the combustion process ......

I will have to wait and see if this happens to me on my Mcs when it comes in... but check out the write up on motoring file about the r56 engine... has anyone thought to research the Peugeot 206. I think it has a derated version of the Mcs engine

 

w

 

You have a good point, but there are other direct injection systems out on the market, BMW, Audi, Peugeot, etc, this hasn't been reported to be a problem across the board. I'm not a professional mechanic, but I have worked on normally aspirated engines in the past and remember hearing a similar sound when the timing was off on a rebuilt 302 V8. If the exhaust valves dont open quick enough to release the spent gasses it can create back pressure in the engines cylinder and cause rough idling and a helicopter or diesel type sound. Not sure if this is something that could happen on a VVT engine, I don't know anything about direct injection and very little about fuel injection ECU equipped cars, the air/fuel mixture is much richer in the car when it is cold and changes the way the computer adjust the valves, timing, turbo boost, etc. My feeling is the problem has something to do with that, hoping that it is just a software tweak and not some mechanical thing that would require replacing parts or possibly the entire motor.

 

Direct injection is just noisy guys... I don't know why this thread needed to go on for 9 pages. The MC and the MCS both have VANOS, and they're both Fuel Injected (Though the MCS engine has Direct Injection). Direct injection is COMPLETELY different from the port injection system on earlier MINI's. It's louder, not that much louder, but louder. I've heard them start up before, I think everyone is making a HUGE deal out of nothing .

Engine Details Here: http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/d...1103281940.pdf

 

Huge deal out of nothing? Dealers replacing engine parts and engines themselves left and right, all being done out of nothing?

Uh?

Nice try buddy.

 

Here is a video of a 4 cyl engine with solid lifters...sound familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2oQbpmDYl4

Keep in mind that solid lifters are closer to high performance. In drag racing circles the old solid lifter cars are the ones that sound a little more evil. Getting your lifters adjusted was usually part of getting your car tuned up.

Hydraulic lifters were created to self adjust and be quieter but they did lose some performance. The lifters in the MINI probably have small oil journals that need a certain pressure to fill. This is a total guess though.

 

it's because the noise this thread is meant to be talking about isn't the clickety noise the injectors make. It's a very different type of sound.

 

Wow! Thanks for that revelation! MINI therefore has just replaced my WHOLE ENGINE after acknowledging somthing was seriously wrong specificlly surrounding this very cold start rattle. If only they'd listened to you as I clearly wouldn't have gone without my car for the past two months. Brilliant.

Sorry buddy, but you seem to have no idea what we're talking about here... go back to page 3 and watch the vids again... no one is mistaking the FI solonoids clicking away. It's a very different noise than that and not much ado about nothing as you have suggested.

 

If the noise is due to direct injectors then why does the noise subsides after about 5 minutes (warmed-up)?

 

Update on Lewis: Started him twice at 13deg (garage) and drove out to -3deg to 0deg and he made "the noise." The first time it got better after a re-start, but didn't go away, second time I didn't bother to restart, just gingerly headed to work. We'll see how he feels this afternoon.

 

My cold start issue, is a bit more than a bad sound, it's actually sounds like it's out of gas, then stalls and shuts down. Only does this in cold weather.

It's noisy yes, but it sounds like a lawnmower on the first starts, until it gets enough gas in it. At least that's my interpretation.

Do we think it's still a purely direct injection problem? Any clues on a fix? I am heading into the shop on Weds.

Also another funny tidbit. I mentioned the large amount of exhaust residue on the tips and the service tech said it's totally normal? Can that be correct?

 

I had the same problem with my engine shaking and cutting off when it was cold. While I was at the dealer yesterday I asked about it and they reprogrammed my car and today I jumped in and drove right off without having to warm up at all. The car was also not even sluggish like it was before, even after I had let it warm up. It only took about 90 minutes to update (I have no nav) and it was definitely worth the time. It's something to consider trying if nothing else.

 

Does your receipt say exactly what they did?

 

Not all S's do it though. Mine hasn't (yet) and, as many people who have complained about it, it still doesn't seem like most, or even a majority, make the noise. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem, but it certainly isn't in every S.

 

Given that so far no attempt at repair has been entirely successful, including engine replacement, and also given that one Peugeot 207 owner has also reported (in a Mini forum, no less!) the same problem with the nearly identical engine in his car, I would say it is a flaw common to the engine design and will likely affect most (if not all) Cooper S vehicles located in cold climates. I, too, was reading the reports in this thread, considering myself lucky to not be affected, until the weather here dropped below freezing. :(

 

The fact is that, right now, it isn't affecting most of the R56 S's. While it may be a design flaw, not all, or most, S's are experiencing the problem. It was 14 degrees here and I didn't have the problem. Perhaps the noise isn't really the engine. Maybe it's the mounts, heat shields, or exhaust flanges? Has anyone's engine actually failed from the noise? That would explain why replacing the engine didn't fix the problem.

 

The one time mine did it it also lost power until it cleared up took about 2 minutes so I would think its engine related , It was in the low fourties nose down on a steep incline and I moved it 3 times just a few yards to let kids play the night before . All three of those things have been known to cause it and I did all 3 . I was about 300 miles from the nearest Mini dealer .

 

The cold does not seem to be a factor. My car started doing this last summer at 70 degrees! I have seen posts on Mini2 of cars in warmer climates with this problem as well..... My car starts like this about 3/month....it did not do it more when it was in the teens and twenties outside....Will my engine fail because of this? We wont know until it does eh? My wife took my car to work yesturday and called me on her way home last night...."I think someone might of hit the Mini in the parking lot!..It sounds like one of the fenders is rubbing on a tire" I told her no it just sounds like every once in a while..It will go away in few min....Bottom line if my weed eater made this noise I would take it back and ask for a new one!! Now if I can just catch this noise with my video camera so my dealer will believe me.... Dont think because your car hasnt made the noise yet you are safe!! I have heard of some starting this after 10,000 miles.