My car started running funny; bad idle, tries to stall after you goose the throttle and it tries to hold idle again and the most telling issue is the weird turbo noise when revving. I've been tinkering/tuning cars since the late 80's and I had a similar issue with my 1993 Supra MKIV Turbo when I had the cam gears adjusted too much. So now for whats happened since.

I call roadside assistance on Monday and they come and get the car and bring it to Hassell MINI in Freeport (L.I., NY) no problem. The next morning (Tuesday) I get the call from the service guy at Hassell telling me the MINI rep refuses to authorize work on the car because I have parts connected to the DME (computer). I tell him that the parts on there are just pass through parts. I've got a voltage stabilizer that holds system voltage constant regardless of draw in preparation for stereo work I'm getting ready to start. I've also got some wiring connected to the air charge temp sensor and and manifold pressure sensor to data log the readings.

Nothing I have hooked up has any effect on timing so I tell him I'll foot the bill for diagnostics if it turns out to be my parts. I never get a call back that day, I call the next morning and the rep still won't authorize it even on my dime. Mind you now the wiring is soldered in for the best connection and this putz wants everythign disconnected. His request is technically illegal as the Federal Law (Magnusen-Moss Act) prohibits manufacturers from requiring unreasonable changes as a condition for service to be completed. Luckily I can handle it so I head down all steamed up and cut everything out (Wednesday).

I have to call them again and apparently they have taken brief look at the car and it requires opening the engine (pulling the timing cover off for us ignorant consumer) because "something with timing is definitely messed up" (in the service guys words). But now they can't do it because only a few special people there can handle it and they are too busy so it will have to wait until Monday just to possibly be diagnosed. What are they going to tell me Monday, "oh the parts we need are in England." I'm sick of the BS! I spend good money on this car and its the worst I've been treated by any Manufacturer/Dealer ever. I had my last few cars modded up the yin-yang and the dealers never said a peep and the cars were always fixed right and quick. So much for customer service!

Pissed,
Shawn

 

you got wires soldered into your computer wiring?

you are screwed and you can't blame MINI.

 

The next time you are sitting in your drivers seat look up to the top left of your windshield. There is a littel plastic sticker there that might be of interest.

Seriously though - cutting and splicing into the wiring harness is a very bad idea. That's why I refused to use the direct connect wire method for the alta ECU piggyback unit even though it took awhile before they got the harnesses working good.

Now that your dealer has seen it and made notes (you bet they did), this could haunt you for a long time.

 

Both of you clearly miss the point.

First I specifically offered unnecessarily to pay for the initial diagnosis. I of course would not have to pay in the end because I know the items I have installed are not what is causing the problem.

Second it is forbidden by the Federal Gov't (Magnusen-Moss Act) for any manufacturer to refuse service without proving the items have caused the problem.

I'll be taking both MINI and Hassel to small claims court to re-imburse me for my lost time, after being forced by them to make the changes. The mileage to and from my office to make the changes, my labor rate from the work I had to miss and the loss of use of my vehicle. It might be small peanuts even if I win but since my wife is an attorney and I've got time to do it maybe they will think twice next time before they pull this crap because it will cost them lawyer time and the cost of settlement hopefully and they untimately still have to repair my car. It could cost them 3 times as much.

Lastly they had no idea the items were soldered in because they never removed the electrical tape. What's so bad with soldering? I'd rather do that then twisting the wires together and taping them.

I'll have everything weather packed so next time I have to go in all my parts will be removed and everything will be back to stock.

I'm sick and tired of big brother. Its my car and if they want to treat customers like this then I can assure you I'll never buy either a MINI again or a BMW. So for those of you that don't agree I hope you enjoy having the MAN's leash on you for the rest of your lives.

Shawn

 

ummmmm... if you want to claim warranty work, don't strip and solder wires that lead to the ecu.

seriously, you're retarded if you think you're going to win this battle. You're messing with the voltage of the electronics, and mini is claiming that the timing is messed up. An electronic problem, linked to an electronic modification.

Get a capacitor.

 

I've been working this over in my head....

you're the reason why all of us have to deal with increased prices. Lets sue everyone, even if they're our brother.

have fun in court, I hope you lose.

 

Did someone say flux capacitor?

 

Both of who???? There was one person with two replies. Does that say something about the OP's frame of mind???

Hey OP, do you wave???

 

mess with yr MINI, pay the price. Im sick of modders complaining about the "bad" and "nasty" customer service they get from their dealers after they modify the car's primary systems. what do you expect, for them to bow down and curtsy and say "yes sir no problem it's covered?" give me a break.

 

As I stated but you failed to read, the wiring will be clean and setup with OE weather packs moving forward so it will be stock next time I might have to go in.

As I stated but you failed to read, its illegal for any (read "any") manufacturer to put conditions on service unless they can prove the modifications caused the problem. Since your obviously the expert then explain to me how some sensor reading equipment and a voltage controller cause a mechanical problem?


That takes care of just the amp, what happens as voltage fluctuates due to other draws. I guess professional race teams have voltage stabilizers in their electircal system just to carry the weight around. If you want everything electrical to work to its optimum then proper voltage must be maintained, especially coil packs since they are no longer the big single unit.

I never had these problems with the manufacturer/dealer with the three new cars I've had in the last 5 years. Significantly more modified VW's and a Subaru. All turbo cars to boot.

If my time is going to be needlessly wasted then why not waste their time, seems prety fair. Do unto others as they do to you!

Last question: Do you work for BMW/MINI? Sound like you've got some vested interest.

PS - oh yeah and you wouldn't be calling me a moron (unnecessary) to my face so enjoy hiding behind your screen.

Shawn

 

I'll enjoy hiding behind my screen, that's the beauty of the internet, isn't it?

I don't work for bmw, I just see flaws in your theory.

I know about that whole modification law, but it's pretty difficult to run diagnostic testing on an electrical system with electrical modifications, without taking the modifications off.

Get it back to stock, and see if you still have the issue.

MINI's and BMW's are not straight forward cars like the subaru and vw's you've run modifications on before. They're much more electronic. My guess is that the ecu has built in methods to deal with the fluctuating voltage, and when you take away from the fluctuations, you're screwing with the ecu, and it might be pulling your timing. Just a theory, I'm no electrical engineer.

 

Not surprised but karma is a real ***** :-)

If you did you'd know that what was done was illegal, especially since they should be more interested with mechnical issues because base timing is probably what is off. Diagnostics will only get them half way, the still need to pull the cover/s off since the problem is obviously not electrical.

That's pretty funny actually, especially considering VW uses the same DME supplier. Subaru is different but their systems are just as complex, especially considering everything drivetrain is integrated and everything non-drivetrain is also integrated into master controllers.

Explain why my items have run flawlessly for over 6 months and the diagnostic on the voltage unit comes up clean and the ECU of the car never even threw a code?

Shawn

 

I had a caliper go bad after I installed aftermarket brake pads & rotors. I had to eat the cost of the caliper. If I had OEM pads & rotors it would have been covered under warranty. Do I think my Brembo rotors & Hawk pads made my caliper go bad? No, but I went aftermarket so I had no leg to stand on.

I also have a pulley & if my supercharger goes out I know full well it will not be covered under warranty. Anything other non-wheel or supercharger related part on my MINI will still be covered under warranty even though I have those mods. When you MOD you risk losing warranty associated with anything your MOD could "possibly" effect whether it actually effected it or not. That's just the way it is

I will go along & say I am not always thrilled with the service I get from MINI but I do not expect them to cover things that any MOD I have made could possibly effect.

Keep us updated on the court case against MINI. I hear BMW has deep pockets


p.s... Even if you put your MINI back to stock 100% if they have noted your record with the MOD they will deny warranty coverage on anything that MOD could have effected in the future.

 

If its my fault I'll pay for it, no issue there, that's why the law was written.
The burden is on them to prove my parts caused the failure.

They can have all the notes they want, if the parts are not in the car next time they have no way to prove anything.

Shawn

 

I can and have read all this, I can comprehend what has been written in this thread as well.

Magnusen-Moss Act is a feel good law. It has no teeth.

See this thread https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nusen-Moss+Act

BMW is known for their vigorous defense in these matters. I was you all the luck in the world at the exercise in tilting windmills.

Only the lawyers win with these fights. At this point I would have the MINI taken to an independent for diagnosis and repair. I dare say the dealer has their feet firmly in cement about this issue and will not budge.

 

The ferg-mag act is only as good as your signature on the sheet holding your warranty together. It sucks, but that's their leverage, it's it's weighted to their side everytime.

I am a modder so I sympathize with your wish to keep the voltage stabilized in the first place. I also understand by completely ripping out my audio system and adding wiring under the hood, it may cause irregular issues under the hood and I may be responsible for repairs these cause...this is why reading and planning are essential..also weighing the pros and cons.

By tapping into any stock part of the vehicle you risk the dealership voiding your warranty as per their "see fit attitude." It sucks...but you always have to prove yourself a) knowledgable about the situation and b) understanding you might have to revert the car if something is causing the underlying issue to recieve any pull. I've had lots of experience on this issue, but you just have to ask the dealership their point of view and work it out with them.

What I don't like to see is fellow motorists slamming one person for their creations. Instead of bashing, how about solutions to help.

Return everything back to stock, pull the negative on the batter and let the ECU reset and put it all back together. You have an added an additional controller looking at the system and it sees a sag or surge in voltage which the ECU may be looking for and causing something to retard to match. Even though they said the cam needs to be looked at, there might be something else cause the issue.

Can't get into a pissing match with the toilet.

 

Go dwf137! You said it so well, and its so true. You have to think of it from the tech's perspective. You come in complaining about an issue the car is having, he opens the hood begins to look around and is going to run diagnostics. He sees you've effed with wiring dealing with the ECU, one of the biggest compenents of the car. It's not like you added an intake, exhaust, or any other typical aftermarket part. You directly altered one of the key electronic compenents of the car.

Sure maybe YOU know you did it right and that it won't cause a problem, but from the tech's eyes...he has no idea if you knew what you were doing or not, or what the hell you were trying to do or if it has caused a problem. And therefore they should not be liable to waste their time and resources trying to find a problem that may or may not be caused by your tampering.

Oh ya, and dwf's right...good luck suing them. It's not going to make a difference one bit to a dealer. It happens so much because of people like you, that one more piddly small claims case isn't going to prove a point at all. Hope you're not expecting to go back there for service after it .

 

That's a good one.

I appreciate the attempt re-focus the energy of the bashers!

I know irts my bad for assuming this manufacturer/dealer would be cool like the others. This will never happen again, that's for sure!

If I had the manual I would have done it myself the day they balked but I don't and this motor is too new on the market and there may be gremlins once you get in that can't be handled yet without special tools. Better to let them sort it out, I'm sure I would have been into more of a **** storm had I taken the engine apart. Couldn't hide the fact that factory seals have been opened.

I've got the free time so its a little tit for tat with the OE and the Dealer. I take my time very seriously no matter how big the opponent. I guess its in the heritage of my thick Swiss/German skull of mine.

Respectfully,
Shawn

 

Because nobody is willinbg to go to the wall and fight back.


My wife is an attorney so we don't mind if she wins ;-)

They are working on it now that I've put everything back to stock.

Shawn

 

I do have to add that a capacitor is a band-aid at best for a system without proper power, it's a container for power, not a stabilizer for power...

The unit he has installed on his vehicle helps to keep the current throughout the system the same which has proven in past applications on many cars to increase fuel mileage and increase horsepower in some applications.

The unit has nothing to do with storing power for a subwoofer setup that is the capacitor's sole purpose so I'm not sure where you picked that up from.

And it wouldn't be without merit for the tech to plug into the ECM and see if there are any fault codes FIRST and see if they may point to one problem or another before shutting it down.

I think what we have here is a failure for humans to help each other out. Do the ECM test, see if any codes are thrown...pull the stabilizer test again, pull the negative, test again...could take less than 30 minutes...it's really just a matter of one person or many people telling someone who just paid their salary to **** off with out offering a lick of help.

 

They cannot deny me service with no basis for denial. Next time I go in they'll be nothing they could use to support that type of denial. Maybe she'll run fine for the remainder of my ownership? That would be fine with me too.

Shawn

 

A capacitor can be used as a bandaid, yes, but a capacitor has a purpose in higher powered systems. Batteries are not meant to provide surges of power like a capacitor can. You can go and spend hundreds on a nice redtop and at the end of the day, your headlights still dim with big hits. Put in a capacitor, and most of your problems will be solved.

He stated that he was using the voltage stabilizer for upcoming audio work, not for performance or efficiency items.



And the only reason I'm being a ****, is because he's being a **** in the first place. He's pissed of that a dealer didn't want to work on a car when he soldered wires leading to the ecu. He's coming in here, acting like tough ****. Threatening to sue left and right, oh I'm so tough, I'll go to small claims court, blah blah blah...

He didn't ask for help, he is here to complain.

 

It is true, but he didn't give his application reason and it didn't warrant a blast. A red-top is a typical starting battery, where as a yellow or blue would be for high discharge applications or contast use applications...but I can go all day on that. But leave a stock battery in there with a capacitor and you may have a potential issue on your hand...but again, not the problem in question.

I'd be a little pissed to if the tech, who is not an expert in anything other than the car is telling me what I did broke something when it may have been running for 6 days without a problem and we don't know the timeline it has been on there.

What he might want to do if he is still watching is have a Audio expert certified in an audio shop is write a statement about what is under the hood. Might help the cause. He did offer to pay for the diagnostic fee, it's 10 minutes of their time...not something I would look at sideways to keep someone...especially a customer happy..which is who he is talking to...a customer service rep.

 

Why can't we all just get along?

 

what about a bidet?