They probably won't declare it a lemon - what they'll most likely do is what's called a "Dealer Assist" where you order a car to the spec or at least the same price point of the car you currently own and then if you're lucky they'll perform what's called a "substitution of collateral" and you'll resume your bank note where it was at with the previous MINI.

AEM if you have any questions, PM me.

 

Kurt,
It's at the dealer right now. As soon as I hear something, I'll let you know. I know you went through the same thing with yours, so I know you have the experience. Thanks.

 

 

UPDATE: Well, the dealer had the car for 3 days. The MINI Factory Rep was out to look at the car. They put die in the engine oil and transmission oil. They came to the conclusion that the transmission fluid was over full because when they drained some out, nothing was leaking on Friday. I was skeptical, so I took the car home on Friday. I let it set on Saturday and Sunday. When I looked under the car on Monday morning, guess what I saw....

THE CAR WAS STILL LEAKING OIL!

Needless to say I will be calling the dealership today and demand a new car or my money back. I will be following that call up with one to MINI USA. This has been a real nightmare. I will keep everyone posted as to what happens next. Stay tuned

 

Are you working with a lemon lawyer? I suggest you have an attorney from this point on...

My friend had a lemon BMW 2007 328... he wrote a letter to BMW USA and they gave him full amount of the money back of the purchase price... his gas tank didnt register amount of gas.. he ran out of gas 5 times on the road when the guage said he has half tank left....

Point is.. my friend got lucky.. got it taken care of with one letter to BMW USA..

Your case might get complicated.. what if they resist giving your money back? You should get your money back.. get a lemon attorney... let them work for you...

 

Don't forget to keep us updated even if you get a civic.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine had a lemon
monster truck (avalance comes to mind as the name).

It's to the shop every week since he bought it new,
for like 6 months. Either the transmission or
an electrical gremlin.

They agree to lemon law it I'm not sure the dealer,
GM or both. But they charge him like
$4000 depreciation.

 

I just got off the phone with MINI USA. They wanted me to call the dealer to confirm the oil leak since it was in there last week. I called the dealer and talked to my SA and told him it was still leaking oil. He is going to talk to the Service Manager and then call me back. I basically told them I want out of the car. If they start to **** me off, I already have a lawyer lined up and ready to go the Maryland Lemon Law route. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks.

 

While there is a lot of speculation in this thread of what to do when you have a problematic car I can only suggest the following:

1. Keep good notes and keep a detailed service history

2. Make a call to 1-888-ASKMINI - detail the problem you're having - this starts the documentation process.

3. Followup by writing emails/letters to MINI USA (include your VIN) and be sure to copy the VP of Customer Service - this verifies the documentation on their side.

4. The most important thing - no matter how upset you are - always maintain a receptive and positive tone versus a demanding tone. If you're an enthusiast about the car, make sure you include that - if you've owned 8 MINIs include that! It indicates that you also have some ownership in the problem and want to remain a part of the MINI family.

4. Once you've agreed on a resolution (Dealer Assist from BMW for a new car) , make sure you have it in writing - and make sure you don't blast it all over the Internet - BMW/MINI do not want unhappy customers, but by the same token they don't want their settlement details with you blast out all over the Internet.

 

I don't know your Lemon Law, but keep in mind one important fact:

Generally, once you meet the law's requirements for the MINI to be declared a lemon, you are the one in control. All MINI is trying to do once you have the RIGHT to demand your money back is to avoid doing that, if they can.

Most dealers/manufacturers will NOT agree with or go along with a car being declared a lemon. But the law is the law and they can't argue with it if under the lemon law, that is what your car is.

So be careful. The attorney should review your situation and tell your MINI meets the definition of a lemon. If it does, you have no obligation for the dealer to keep "stalling" you and attempting to fix the car.

Remember, lemon laws were written with a dealer's "human behavior" in mind. Left to their own devices, dealers won't voluntarily say "oh yes, this is a lemon, here's you money back."

And be careful they don't have you sign some type of waiver of exercising your lemon law rights and review their paperwork to make sure they don't try to trivialize the problem. [In some States only serious defects qualify under the lemon law. In other States they say the same problem has to be in for repairs a certain number of times.]

Keep in mind that there's two lemon laws at play here:

Your State, and the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is the federal "lemon law." Your State law may be more protective than MM, in which case that would control.

 

Here's your lemon law from the MD Attorney General. Test on Friday.

http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/M...ylandlemon.pdf

And their Site that explains it in a nutshell:

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/lemon.htm

 

For the benefit of members to see how all this works, here is the OP's State's law, an image from the website.

I'll underline things I think are interesting or important. I think you can qualify under the third bulleted item. Note that the law says you must send a certified letter to MINI, not the dealer. This ould be called putting them on formal "NOTICE" a strict requirement to invoke the benefits of many laws. So send the certified letter, TODAY:

 

MichaelSF,
I already talked to a lawyer. They agreed that my case meets all the requirements under the MD Lemon Law. All I have to do is give them the OK and they will take over. All fees will be paid for by BMW, not me. At this point I am trying to work it out on my own. If the dealer and MINI continue to "stall" I will not hesitate to call them back and get the proceedings started. I'm trying to stay calm during all of this but it's starting to get to me every day that goes by. Thanks for your comments. They really do help.

 

Well you should send the certified letter regardless since IMHO that must be done. If it were my lawyers I would have sent that letter so that the "notice" requirement is out of the way.

You don't want MINI USA arguing they have more time to try a fix AFTER they get the letter, albeit that's not how I read the law. But dealers operate from NOT wanting to declare the MINI a lemon, so you have to assume they will delay and stall.

For sure, MINI and the dealer are lucky to have a customer so willing to spend hours upon hours without compensation to deal with all this.

Good luck. And don't listen to me, I tend to be a pessimist and don't trust car lots and salesmen. Your local lawyers know how things work far better than I do.

 

My prediction (see post #20) is they'll roll over and let you out without a lawyer involved. The only thing that will be left is how much they'll give you back (depreciation). That'll depend on how much you drove the car before you started taking it back to the dealer, and how generous the dealer/Mini are in these situations in general. Of course I think they should be very generous because whatever they lose is lunch money to them. Good luck on this.

 

In your situation, I'd probably tell my SA that you have already contacted a lawyer and are reviewing weather your car qualifies under Maryland's lemon law (don't say that you know that it does already, tell him that you are having it reviewed because you are so upset and just want your car back) and tell him that you'd really rather have the problem fixed. I imagine that will light a fire under their asses, but check with your lawyer before you do this. At this point, anything you say to them might be used against you in the lemon process, so make sure to run all communications with the dealership by your lawyer first.

 

All I am saying is that you are going on how many months on this now [is it one year?] You have far more patience than I would. And in the eyes of the law it may not be that serious a situation since you have been driving the car for a year or so.

You better be careful that you don't use up the 15 month period. By my count you have about three months left [assuming Sept is when you bought your August build car, since the 15 months is from date you have owned the car.] In any event, why push it to the wire?

Don't assume the ball is in your court and all you have to do is "push the button to get the proceedings started." When it comes to the law nothing is that simple. Add car dealers to the mix, things can get downright nasty real fast.

Bonus Comment: I find it hard to believe that MINI experts can't tell the source of the leak. MINI engines and transmissions are not at all complicated.

My suspicion is that the dealer is setting you up to argue that the leak is inconsequential, they have fixed everything else, so there is no lemon law issue. They have an argument since you have been driving the car.

You need to look at this as a "jury" would. What arguments will the dealer and MINI USA make to prove your's is NOT a lemon. You then need to address those issues now. Either that or suck it up and forget about making a lemon law claim.

 

Generally, telling someone that you have contacted a lawyer or have a lawyer only causes people to run for cover, get their stories straight, and in many situations, motivate people to destroy evidence.

Dishonest people who hear threats of getting or having a lawyer appreciate the heads-up and perceive comments like "I have a lawyer and he says..." as empty threats. This is because if the one making the threat has a lawyer he or she would be having the lawyer contact the "threatee."

Moreover, street-smart "prospective defendants" know that the good lawyers don't let clients engage in self-help or directly contact the other side. Sharp lawyers specifically counsel clients against self-help because things can get screwed up or do not want clients doing anything that might jeopardize a case.

Besides, hasn't he tried to work this out with them for about 10 months now?

 

I sent the certified letter on July 11th. Yes, you are correct, the car was 1 year old on September 1st. Right now I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer. If I don't get the response I want to hear, I'm calling the lawyer.

Also, the car is sitting in my garage. It has 9,500 miles so far. I don't want to put any more miles on it.

 

Sitting in the garage unused, that helps your situation. Makes it look serious.

You figured out to send the certified letter to MINI USA back in July? Very astute.

 

Yes, thank you. I've done my homework. It's just very frustrating.

 

I just have a not-so-relevant question. When a car is declared lemon, isn't the manufacturer supposed to give you all the money you paid rather than a depreciated value? (or give a similar car)?

I m confused. Why would there be a depreciation associated with a lemon? Its almost the same as selling it or trading it in. Why go through the hassle of getting it declared a lemon if there is no full refund of the price?

 

Nothing irrelevant at all about your question and it's a good one.

It depends on what the law says, in each State, or the Fed [whichever law is more protective generally trumps the less beneficial law.]

Here, the OP's State [Maryland] says on being declared a lemon he is entitled to a refund. In statutory interpretation there is a rule that says the plain meaning of words is what applies when enforcing the law. In my view, without knowing the case law that has interpreted the MD lemon law, refund means what it says, the OP gets his money back, with the manufacturer NOT being entitled to depreciation.

If you think about it, not allowing for depreciation makes sense because otherwise the dealer would be profiting from the car being declared a lemon and the buyer would be suffering a loss.

In other words, why have a lemon law if the transaction would result in damages calculation the same as a sale. In allowing for depreciation after all is added and subtracted, the dealer / manufacturer gets out of the deal without suffering the loss of one thin dime. In fact, allowing depreciation under a lemon law would benefit the manufacturer, not the buyer. Not providing for a full refund would render the use of the word "refund" in a statute absurd.

Same logic would apply for charging the lemon owner a monthly amount for use of the car during the "lemon period." There's no benefit to the lemon owner if he or she has to pay a "rental fee" for the months the car was a problem. A refund somewhat compensates the lemon owner for the hassles of dealing with the car and restores the owner to the status before the car was purchased.

That's not to say that a dealer would never try to pull the wool over a lemon owner's eyes and salvage the sale by saying "Oh, OK, we will take the car back, subject to depreciation and a sum for your having used the car." I'd be curious to see if any State's lemon law uses language other than "refund." That would make the lemon law totally useless.

 

Here's the exact wording from the Maryland Lemon Law documentation...

"The manufacturer can replace your vehicle with a comparable one that is acceptable to you, or buy it back, whichever you prefer. The repurchase price you are offered should cover the full purchase price including license fees, registration fees and other similar governmental charges. The manufacturer can subtract up to 15 percent of the purchase price for your use of the vehicle, and a reasonable allowance for damage not attributed to normal wear and tear."

Btw...I'm taking the car into the dealership tomorrow morning. The Service Manager has to verify that it is still leaking oil as instructed by MINI USA. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

good luck!!

 

That's interesting. The text I provided was from the MD Attorney Gen's Site. You would think they would mention the 15% rule since that's pretty significant in making a refund not truly a refund. I guess if one has used the MINI for a year or so, then 15% might sound OK, but I assume that during that year one has also been making car payments.

How I understand MD Lemon Law works: let's assume a $30,000 out-the-door purchase price. Also assume the owner makes $400 monthly payments. And finally, let's assume that a lemon law claim is made 12 months post MINI purchase.

After a year, one would have made $4,800 in payments.

The dealer gets to deduct $4500 [15%] from the "refund" amount resulting in a $25,500 "refund."

Add to the $4500 15% use fee to the $4,800 in car payments, that means the owner will have paid $9,300 to exercise his lemon law rights. [Slight deduction for days the MINI was not driven due to repairs.]

This all results in a double penalty to the MINI owner. 1) the payments the owner has made to date; and 2) the 15% use fee.

Even worse, if financing was done through MINI then the dealer / manufacturer profits twice: 1) getting the MINI back at a 15% discount over the original sales price [arguably depreciation in most cases, but due to the MINI selling so well, the 15% use fee results as a real screw job; and 2) the mostly-interest payments made to MINI USA financing over the 12 months.

Sidenote: I suspect most, if not all, dealers will ding a lemon owner for the full 15% and also try to attribute as much damage as possible to beyond normal wear and tear [e.g., every door ding, every mark on the interior results in a $500 deduction here, $500 deduction there.]

The AG should explain the law in more detail since that 15% rule is a zinger.

The Maryland law appears to be extremely favorable to the manufacturer. In my view the law appears to have been drawn up to act as a deterrent to lemon car owners from invoking the law. Without knowing about it in detail, the law appears to have been the result of heavy lobbying by the auto industry and they were successful in getting that 15% use fee inserted. Manufacturers knew full well that with the 15% use fee, few consumers would ever attempt to exercise their rights under law.

Maybe the lawmakers believed lemon laws were not needed because a new vehicle warranty would be sufficient to protect one's rights.

I'd be curious how many Maryland consumers have [perhaps ignorantly] exercised their rights under the law.

"Refund" is defined as To give back, especially money; return or repay: 'refunded the purchase price. Maryland gives a "refund" but only after giving a significant profit to the dealer and manufacturer. It's not really a refund at all. Am I missing something?