I need some clutch problem advice. I just purchased a manual mini cooper S in October 2007. It has 12,000 miles on it and I recently noticed that the clutch was starting to slip-the RPMs go up while the car barely accelerated. Just before the slipping started (a day or two before) there was some slight chattering or grinding noise as the clutch pedal was released to engage the clutch, also the clutch pedal felt like there was more back pressure coming up. I took the car back to Universal Mini dealership near me, who informed me that it will not be covered under the bumper to bumper warranty because they believe I drive aggressively, I don't. They said they can tell this by the cracks in the fly wheel and heat spots on the pressure plate. I engage the clutch with the lowest RPM possible without stalling & drive very conservatively. $3,200.00 later my Mini had a new clutch kit & I was able to retrieve the old clutch disk, pressure plate & flywheel (the throughout bearing went MIA at the dealership). What can I do in order to get my dealer to honor mini warranty? Could these problems be attributed to other factors, if so what? Has anyone had similar problems?

 

Although I am no expert i can tell you that the clutch plate was overheated at some point and that is what caused the clutch plate to crack. My gf's sone did it to a Volvo with less than 15,000 miles on the new clutch. He kept telling us that it was not his fault until i got in another car with him and found he was "riding" the clutch pedal all the time. Just the slightest pressure on the clutch when it was not supposed to be bing touched was all it took.

I am also not saying that it was your fault because there are other things that could possibly cause it but it is likely that the dealer nor Mini USA will cover it as it looks so bad.

But at any rate you should at least call Min USA and wee what they have to say. It is always good to get a second opinion as well.

 

I know what you mean about riding the clutch pedal, after each shift my foot is off the pedal completely. Could it have anything to do with a bad throughout bearing that the dealership lost, or a defective pressure plate. The back side of the pressure plate looks like grease or some type of lubricant was leaking from the bearing (picture 3rd from left)… I have driven nothing but standard transmission vehicles for over 30 years & have never had to replace the clutch on any of them; I know its not my driving habits. What else mechanically could cause the clutch to burn-out

 

Mechanical things could include abed through out bearing, mis-adjusted cable or hydrualics.

If it was mis-aligned with the shaft that could cause it as well.

I'm sure there are other things that could cause it as well.

 

First off, when your at a light do you shift to neutral or do you hold the clutch down and in first gear. Second, do you rock the car on a hill for a long period of time or do you use the brake. Check if the clutch is recieving the proper quantity of fluids to keep it cool

 

Neutral most all the time when at a stop, no rocking with clutch on a hill stop. The auto break feature works well when on a hill & the clutch hydraulic fluid was at the proper level. I am thinking of something mechanical or hydraulic with the clutch components that made the clutch not fully engage (as if I was riding the clutch pedal). Another suggestion I heard was too much engine power for the clutch to hold during hard acceleration. This was suggested because of the new engine (more horsepower) & transmission combo BMW is using with the 2007 models. Also when the symptoms first showed up the clutch pedal felt like there was more back pressure coming up.

 

Viper,

Sounds to me like your throwout bearing seized. It's possible than when that happens the clutch is not fully engaged when you release the pedal, therefore causing slippage, which in turn would wear out the clutch and overheat the lining.

I had a milder version happen in my 05 (premature wear due to a warped flywheel). It was all covered uner warranty, and so should your parts and labor. The missing throwout bearing sounds suspicious to me, since that's the part I would suspect first. I would contact MINI USA bout this and not let it go until they resolve it to your satisfaction. I would also insist the mia throwout bearing be found and returned to you.

Fwiw, from reading posts here on NAM, the tranny and clutch seem to be able to hold up to 300hp just fine, so the extra 4 horse increase from 06 to 07 is hardly prone to wear your clutch out that much faster.

 

How about some debree (like a rock) entering the transmission. It happened to me on my old r53 3 times thankfully the rocks stayed inside and BMW saw them or I would have been in the same boat as you.
By the way does anyone else drive the car???

 

dunno about r56, but the TO bearing in r53 is plastic. I had my share of clutch and flywheel problems to the point that I will never own another manual MINI (or BMW). And Ive been driving sticks 44 years.

sorry to hear that yr dealer bullied you into paying for this problem that the warranty should have covered, esp. a defective TOB (I agree with that diagnosis.) the oem clutches are CRAP and MINIUSA knows this. I would appeal, because it is kinda suspicious that U got everything back except the TOB.

Agressive SA's playing Jedi-knight mind games with customers convincing them THEY are at fault for f***ing up their clutches/dmfs and denying warranties is nothing new here, and it sucks. Everyone should get one replaced under warranty NQA.

Plead yr case, and dont back off. May the force be with you, young Viperwalker.

 

Thanks for the good info; I am in the process of contacting BMW USA for a warranty resolution (no good responce yet). By the way, my third photo of the pressure plate back side shows some sort of leakage spraying outward. This I think was from the T.O. bearing leaking grease that may have cause failure. Unfortunately the service manager & the mechanic that work on the clutch replacement at the dealership are certain the T.O. bearing is gone & cannot be found (I gave them 2-days to try to find it). Does anyone know the best way to get BMW USA to react to complaint quickly?

 

If your SA is amenable, have him/her initiate a PUMA request. I honestly don't know what that is exactly, but it aparently goes to the national level for evaluation. Barring that, you can contact the dealer and get specifics on how to start an arbitration case with MINI USA. They should be able to help you with that at least.

Remember the old adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Squeak a lot, in other words make the dealership aware (and do it often) that you fully intend to resolve this to YOUR satisfaction. Cite the history of defective throwout bearings with the MINIs, mention that you fully intend to cite that in the arbitration case, and also mention that the arbitrator (who is a judge btw) would not look kindly at a key piece of "lost" evidence. Make sure you have a third party mechanic who can back up your suspicion of the grease marks on the pressure plate coming from the bearing. Be polite but firm, often dealerships will compromise and offer a substantial partial refund at least to avoid going through arbitration.

D'oh, I missed the part where you already initiated the warranty claim. Like I said, be squeaky, call there every day and see what the status is and keep insisting on progress on the matter.

Keep us posted on this.

 

Thanks 2xMini for the advice and I will keep you up dated on my progress…

 

I looked at that image and of course could not touch it. Were those streaks dusty or were they actually greasy? I have seen several clutches like this.
Sometimes, separating cause from effect is a difficult task. I agree that your SA should have gone to bat for you, that's part of his job to represent you and be the communicator between you and the tech. I think MINI will eventually help you on this problem.

 

It is mostly dust from the clutch disk following some sort of fluid leakage that I think is from the T.O. bearing. It’s too bad the dealership let the bearing go M.I.A.

 

Is that a dual mass flywheel (not a solid piece of steel like older, conventional flywheels)?
VW's have had problems with them.
They can self destruct for no good reason.
Maybe there is some fluid in there that helps with the damping.

 

Bingo.

They use DMF's that leak hydraulic fluid and destroy the clutch in the first 10k miles sometimes.

Your dealer will 95% of the time say you suck at driving and it's your fault. But at our dealer I goodwill alot of tranny repairs because I know how these things drive and even an abused clutch lasts alot longer than these are lasting.

 

I have the flywheel, where should I look for the hydraulic fluid leak? Does it leak out from a certain spot on the flywheel?

 

Kind of a sad thread, and no I don't have an opinion of the clutch assembly sorry. I follow warranty threads here a lot, and it seems like some dealers want to blame the customer first and some don't. One guy's dealer refused to warranty his car because he'd installed an unrelated part. He took it to another dealer and they fixed it right away. This is at most a $1500 repair at their cost, and they're selling $30,000 cars right and left. It's nothing to them in the big picture. Very sad that they'd more or less accuse you of abusing your car in order to save a few bucks. Did they have the nerve to say that there was nothing short of abuse that could have caused your clutch to fail like this? If they persist in this I'd do everything I could to hurt their business. It's dishonest IMO.

 

I don't know if there is anything like a 'forensic auto technician' but maybe paying for a second opinion of a respected technical person to look over that dmf. I think the VW's (Sachs?) had gears involved as well. Perhaps see if there is a manufacturer's name on that flywheel, and part number and do searches on Google on different combos.

Here is a link to one of what seems like hundreds on the tdiclub web site.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=137014

I put in the solid vr6 flywheel when it starting slipping after new programming and injectors.

 

The flywheel has two halves and it normally comes out the middle right above the 'toothed' section

 

I'm not a mechanic but I grew up fooling around with cars. First, the center of the pressure plate(looks like daisy petals) seems to have had uneven contact with the throw-out bearing. Second, the friction material on the disc seems to have had wear only on the outer portion - the inner portion looks brand new. It looks like something was out of line causing the pieces to align improperly. This could cause overheating by slippnig slightly and overheating until the disc is worn to a point where it no longer grips at all and self destructs.

Lastly, get a second opinion from a local independent mechanic(preferably a BMW/MINI specialist-pay him if necessary) and if he agrres with you appeal the decision with MINI. Also, hammer on the fact that they lost the throw-out bearing this could be critical to your case and it's like withholding evidence in a trial. The loss of this part sounds fishy to me. Good luck!

 

Viper, ittazvic makes a few good points. If your throwout bearing was out of alignment or not fully engaging, you'd more than likely hear it. You said the pressure felt different. Possibly something in the slave cylinder was sticking or jammed that kept pressure on the clutch assembly. How's the pedal pressure now and do you hear any noise coming from the assembly? Dan

 

dont take your car to this dealer they are a rip off i ttook mine there a couple times they charge a fourtune and they nevr honor your warranty i wuold check your clutsh with a mechanic maybe it was defective or figure out what happend when i have the problem with them i commplain with the better business burea or if you pay with a credit card dispute the charge
hope this help
tag
ps i did get my money back

 

Everything seems to be back to normal after they R & R the clutch assembly, but since it’s my 1st Mini I am not sure what normal is. The only difference now I think (& it’s a small one less than a 1”) is a little bit of free play as you just start to push-in the clutch pedal.

 

Re-opening an old thread here, but just had this happen to me in the UK. 2007 R56 MCS, 11k miles, 2yrs old, total failure of the clutch plate due to it having worn right down.

Dealer and lease company are saying it's my driving style. I know it isn't. About to embark on the long journey to recover the cost and was wondering how it worked out for you with customer service viper1060.

Took lots of photos of the parts, but no longer have the car as the lease ended the day after I got it back from the dealer!