If the car is under warranty then they are responsible, the pulley and other items have nothing to do with the concern; sounds like they don't know how to fix it at this point and are testing you to see if you will say uncle! stick to your guns and I hope it all works out.

Perhaps they should have taken it to a body shop to make sure there is no frame damage and that the drive line has not been compromised!

 

This has been the worst experience ever... Starting to hate this company...
I have a question...
Does anyone knows if this car has any sensor in the front suspension?
My father had a car which had a sensor by the brake rotors and it got wet or something like that making it fail and creating an ugly vibration very similar to what I have now.... They told me NO, but I am starting to doubt about their knowledge... Incompetent technicians!
So does this car has any sensor like that?

Also, if deciding to change bushings, which one would you recommend?
https://www.mini-madness.com/index.a...l=&strCompare= (Does this one comes with the bracket?)
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...l_arm_kit.html
http://www.mossmini.com/Shop/ViewPro...eIndexID=36704

 

I have been reading this thread but so far cannot find any information that indicates that any road diagnosis by the owner has been done. Maybe it has but just not included in the posts, such as:

Does the vibration happen:

At only certain speeds

When the car is under acceleration

When the car is coasting

when the car is decelerating

when the car is under braking

If the car is at speed and vibrating and you coast in neutral what happens

If the car is at speed and vibrating and you turn the engine off and coast what happens

You have tested your original wheels and tires and also your aftermarket wheels and tires.

Have you swapped tires and wheels from another mini that is proven to be smooth?

Has the dealer put the car on a set of rollers, such as a dyno with no load and reproduced the vibration in the shop?

when it is vibrating, is there anything you can do, such as give it gas, let off the gas, coast, turn the steering wheels, push in the clutch, use different gears, etc. to try to make the vibration change for better or worse?

Has anyone followed you with a cell phone on a multi-lane road and observed all four wheels for bounce when you are at the vibration speed?

Last, has anyone considered a defective shock absorber or strut. If for any reason the dampening action of the shock should go away, due to a defective valve or whatever and then allows undampened up and down action, it will shake your car like the Jolly Green Giant just shook your car. This will be apparent when your friend observes your wheels when driving down the road. I don't remember you saying that anyone has looked at the shocks. My money is on a bad shock.

I'm just trying to help and hope you get if figured out fast. Please let us know what it was.

YD

 

Oh wow. Somehow I thought the struts were replaced, but in reading the thread a bit closer, it appears as though the struts were overlooked.

Worn/bad struts can definitely cause a vibration, as Yo'sDad described. Have the struts been looked at?

 

The problem started as a little vibration (like wheel balancing type) when riding my aftermarket wheels and tires... But it got 100 times worst when I installed the OEM 16" S-winders w/RF Googyear excellence tires... Both aftermarket and OEM wheels/tires have been balanced and they are perfect... That is why I am sure the problem is on the car...
Driving the car with the OEM ones, the vibration starts like at 25mph and goes CRAZY and need to stop the car immediately. It is constant. I don't know how else can I explain it. I wish I had recorded a video, but never imagined it was going to get so bad.
Driving the car with the ftermarket ones, the vibration starts like at 45mph and goes on until 60mph... then gets a little bit harder over 80mph. But this vibration is like a regular un-balanced wheel...
At this point I honestly think all the dealer is saying is BS. I am starting to think they have not even replaced what they have said... They just want to clean up their hands and give the car back to me like that with the excuse of aftermarket parts... this is BS after BS...
I think the problem should be in the bushings... That kind of crazy vibration cannot come from strut or shock... I honestly have never seen something like that...(Thanks anyway)
I don't know what else to say, they are just bastards!

 

I can tell your patience is running out; but is it possible that you could answer all of the questions posed by Yo'sDad?

Think carefully and try to answer each one, if you are not sure about the answer say you are not sure.

 

Just because you have not seen anything like what a bad shock can do doesn't mean it can't happen.

No tire is perfectly balanced so once the bouncing starts, there is nothing to stop it. The road is not perfectly smooth, so once you hit a little bump, bouncing starts and it then just gets bigger and bigger because there is no shock to stop it.

I had a new Datsun PU (remember them) one time and all of a sudden the left front wheel started bouncing up and down at about 40 mph so hard it was coming off the pavement. It literally shook the entire truck like a rag doll. It was like I was running over an evenly spaced bunch of speed bumps that were 12 inches high and would not quit until I stopped the car. It was a shock that had failed and had no dampening at all. I'm guessing the internal piston and valving had totally failed. This is rare, but it will definitely cause the problem you describe. And since most everything else that would cause this problem has been checked or replaced, my money is still on a shock.

YD

 

Adding to Yo'sDad excellent suggestions... If the problem is a defective strut/shock then it makes sense that the problem would be noticeably more pronounced with the much heavier S-lites and run flats. You have a heavier rotating mass and a much stiffer sidewall on the run flats. The softer sidewall of non-run flat tires would be more forgiving and the lighter aftermarket rims would make the problem come on at a higher speed / RPM of the tires/wheels. Have a couple of friends follow you in another car until the vibration happens. The passenger in the other car can watch your wheels. Swap lanes with the friends in the other car so that they can see both sides while the problem is happening.

I also agree with the advice of the other people here. Do not back down with the dealership. That car is under warranty and they can't possibly prove that aftermarket wheels would cause such a problem. If they keep insisting that your modifications caused the problem, ask them to prove it to you. If they won't, contact Mini USA and state your case with them. Mini USA is the one being billed for the repairs and if they have replaced the transmission and all of the other stuff that you mentioned, it's on Mini USA's dime. Imagine if YOU had to pay for all of that stuff and the real problem was found to be a bad strut/shock.

 

These are all excellent suggestions! Is it possible the dealer misdiagnosed defective shocks? All things are possible especially if the symptoms still persist. Try pushing down repeatedly on the front bumper with the vehicle stationary (get the vehicle bouncing) then release; the bouncing should stop immediately; if the vehicle continues to bounce the shocks are worn. Repeat for the rear.

 

Keep in mind the aftermarket 17" wheels are 19.5lbs and GY F1 AS tires are about 22lbs... BUT... Factory 16" S-Winders with GY runflats shold weight the same, maybe less I guess...
The bad shock sounds for me too... but, the problem is that the vibration is not only on the front, or on one wheel, but the whole car like if Hulk were shaking it! (I know it sounds silly, but I have never seen something like it. That is the only way I could describe it)...
I'll make them check tomorrow strut towers, shocks, cv joints, ball joints, springs, and all bushings...

 

One wheel will shake the entire car. It is the shock action or dampening that needs be verified. This cannot be checked by visual inspection, unless by chance you have blown a shock seal and see hyd fluid leaking all over the shock that surely they would have already noticed. The action of the shock must be verified.

good luck

YD

 

Some dealers can beat you over the head regarding mods, because they can get away with it. The Magnuson-Moss act is a worthless piece of paper. Ask anyone that has gone down the legal route just to find themselves completely exhausted. BMW can afford expensive lawyers to fight you all the way until you can say no more.

I regret Paipukys situation, but it seems to me none of the ponies are being ridden accordingly and he seems to have a difficult attitude. I don't blame him for his frustration but sometimes being polite but firm gets you farther than being a total A--Hole about the situation.

If I were in his shoes, I would take the car to an independent that knows MINIs inside and out. It doesn't hurt to ask for an opinion outside of the dealer network. By persisting in fighting the dealer, his car is not getting fixed and he keeps running into the same brickwall.

Some of the questions posed here by Yo'Dad are excellent. Print that list of questions and take it to an independent. See what they have to say and take it from there.

I don't see the need to keep dragging the situation any further.

 

Add another question... Has this car ever been in an accident?

 

Can you lift the car and wiggle the wheels? There should not be any loose movement. Spin it too to see it for yourself.

 

The car has never had an accident. Well... at least not from me... I got the car with 385 miles from Lauderdale Mini (Demo car)... They never gave me a car's history...
And I think the only A****** here is MINI USA. They have already determined they will not cover the bushings replacement... so they want me to pay them to do that, but they cannot assure me that will fix the problem. So basically, they want me to pay them to "test" stuff to fix a car that is still under warranty because they don't know what the problem is!!! Incompetent bastards!
I am going to pick up the car tomorrow and start doing some tests myself to find the problem. I am not going to give my money to those thieves!
Will post some videos/pics.

Thank you all for your help

 

paipuky,

If Mini USA is refusing to pay for repairs, call them up and direct them to your local "On your side" TV station's website. Tell them to be sure and tune in for your story on how your $25-30k car is screwed up, the dealership is taking shots in the dark at fixing it and the manufacturer is refusing to allow the to continue to try to fix it. That should get their attention. If it doesn't then call the "On your side" TV station and offer them the story.

As to the weight of the runflats and s-lites versus aftermarket and non-runflats... If the weight of the rotating mass isn't the issue them the stiff-as-a-brick sidewall is. Think about it like this... How well does a fully inflated basketball bounce? How about an under-inflated basketball?

My theory is that the effect is more harsh with the stock setup and runflats because the sidewalls are so hard whereas the softer sidewall of the regular tires absorbs some of the shock of the bouncing. The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that you have a defective shock or strut. Get a friend to ride beside you while it's happening to see if the wheel/tire is bouncing like a ball while going down the road. If one of them is, that is the defective strut/shock. Have the friend video record it and then present the video to your dealership.

 

it's a good way to proceed. Having someone in a different car follow and look at each corner when the vibration is happening is an excellent way to diagnose this. Also, there are magnetically mounted vibration sensors that some shops use to look for what starts shaking first (believe me, it's starting before you're feeling it). The fact it gets worse then better than worse means that it's with one of the wheel assembly/dampeners. Like Yo'sD says, all wheel/tire combos are a bit out of balance, and if there's no dampening this will ressonate and increase in amplitude, moreso at some speeds than others.

Another way to go is to find someone local who has extra struts around (if you were in the SF Bay Area I'd lend you a set) and put them on and see what happens. It's not much work....

I don't think bushing would cause this. While they may rattle and clank (and I've had them disintegrate on my car), failed ones tend to contribute more to clunks over bumps than to vibration on roads.

Matt

 

I got my car back today after 3 WEEKS at Downtown MINI!!!... and... still having nasty vibration! Their "Super Professional and BMW certified technicians were not able to find the problem! An now MINI USA said they had sent a regional engineer from BMW and he VOIDED my warranty because of aftermarket pulley and wheels/tires!!! BS!!! This looks to my like a trap since the guys at the dealer where I bought it were the ones who recommended me to install the pulley and they are the ones promoting Minspeed to do this job, and now they void my warranty because of that?!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me?
About the wheels, that is also BS. Like I said I've been having this issue since I first purchased the car and it started getting worse like a year ago, so how could you explain me that aftermarket wheels/tires which have been balanced to zero many times, could damage the car?... And how am I suppose to drive my car everyday if the factory wheels and tires just make the car go nuts?... Common!
So my surprise was when I took the car to an independent technician just to check the car... He lifted the car, removed front wheels and started the engine making the wheels spin on 3rd gear... And how you can see on the video, we found out that both axles are bent!!! When is spinning we were able to see the axles bouncing. What really pissed me off is that the guys at Downtown Mini told me they had replaced those axles! When I called the service manager (he really has a bad attitude all the time and is very rude!) he told me now that they had just "swapped" the old axles, found no change in vibration and put back the old ones!!! what!!!? I honestly don't believe they have even moved those parts... are you going to tell me they are willing to pay their technicians more time to replace those axles twice just to test?... So after this guy told me that, he told me "so go pay yourself to your technician and have him replace those axles"... A******!!!
As you can imagine , no axle could bend because of aftermarket wheels! I am now 100% sure this is a factory defect or like I said before, maybe the people at Lauderdale Mini have some history of the car they never wanted to tell me about and I am now paying to fix that... (Demo car 385miles) ****!!
Even if the bushings need to be replace, which usually many dealers do under warranty, now I am sure that the axles are the problem too. And I am now sure that that axle problem damaged the bushings too!
And how come they have been doing repairs on the car these past two years with the pulley and aftermarket wheels installed and now they decide to void the warranty?..?????? BS! For me, they are so incompetent that now that they cannot find the problem, they decided to go the easy way and just void my warranty! screw that!
I called again MINI USA directly and after many other calls arguing with them because they don't want to honor the warranty, they told me they are going to investigate the case again and get back to me on Monday. I am not stepping back! The car is still under warranty and I have been dealing with these issues since I purchased the car. They have to honor the warranty!

I HATE MINI!!











Thay also forgot to put back the screw that holds the rotor!!!

 

Here is the video I made with my father driving the Mini. The quality is not the best... but what I saw is that running factory wheels, the front ones start shaking back and forward at aprox 45mph... Weird vibration, is like if the wheel were lose from axle... Crazy. The rear ones bounce up and down like balancing problem type...
We had to stop and replace front wheels for aftermarket ones in the front to be able to drive the car back home in a one hour trip. The vibration with the aftermarket wheels/tires is much less. :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhre10Ok88o

This video shows how the axles bounce... both! Honestly, I have never hit this car. And just imagine what kind of impact could cause BOTH axles to bend!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4rW15S2FQ

 

First off, I'm glad you're finally on the right track to have this all fixed. For what it's worth, it seems like the dealership is the one that screwed you, wasn't really honest with MINI USA, who then wrote you off as a problem customer and hence the voiding of the warranty....

So, while most of this has been done in person and phone, one thing you need to start doing is faxing, writing or e-mailing polite reviews of the conversations so that there is a paper trail. After a discussion, send something in like...

To XYZ,
Thank you for taking the time to today to discuss "Insert issue here". This is what I understand the content of our conversation to have been. "Insert review of position here".

Yours,
your name here.

While many times these conversations get angry, what you're doing here is setting a paper trail that can be used later..... In the case of the dealer reccomending the pully and installer... Something like... "But I'm confused by the voiding of the warranty due to the aftermarket pulley. When I discussed performance upgrades with my MA (or whomever, it's good to have a name here), they specifically suggested this part as well as the installer without every mentioning the possibility that my warranty would have been in jepordy."

I know this all sounds like BS, but trust me, when things get into a pissing match, these types of records are priceless in preventing revisionist history from carying the day. In this situation, it may already be too late, but for others and for the future, there is no better "hanging rope" than that which was given you by those who don't want to be hanged...

Good luck on this one, and I hope you're on a path to having a car that's working well.

Matt

 

I watched both videos and frankly can not see enough to make any determination. I did not see any wheel hop or shake in the video that would make the car undriveable as you describe.

Your axle video is invalid with regard to proving a bent axle(s). You had the suspension hanging from the car. The car was supported from under the body. This causes your axles to hang down at a greater angle than normal driving. The big problem is that the outer ends of the axle, where the hub and rotor are just hanging and allowed to bounce up and down.

In order to do this test properly, long jack stands need to be placed under each front suspension end and preferably jacked up to get the axles in a more straight angle.

Then rotate the axles by hand using a dial indicator and actually measure the deflection and compare those numbers to acceptable factory deviations.

What I saw in the axle video was not enough axle wiggle to cause the type of vibrations you describe.

Now that you have taken the first step toward taking this issue into your own hands, keep it up. You will find the problem.

I would also like to see a video (not a cell phone movie) from inside the car showing the undriveble vibration or bounce, including the steering wheel when it happens.

You may not have the tools or experience to pull the front struts and remove the springs, but if this was done, then you could easily rule out the shocks as being the problem.

Bottom line I think is to get the car to an experienced suspension shop and have one of the 'old timers' either ride or drive the car and get his opinion. Someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight. Too bad we live so far apart or I would be glad to help you diagnose this.

You know how it works, you bring the beer, I point, and you do the wrenching that I tell you to do... it works for me. hehe

Don't give up, you'll find it. Then think of how much you will know about your car when it is done, and also the satisfaction you will have regarding diagnosing and repairing... priceless.

YD

 

Thanks guys... Your help is really appreciated!
I'll be back doing tests by tomorrow afternoon. I'll try to post better videos from the inside and the other tests by tomorrow.
Merry Christmas to all!

 

I'll make sure to do that too. Thanks man!
Merry Christmas!

 

I am having a similar issue but mine '05 S is not under warranty unfotunately. Did you ever get this resolved? I would really like to know.

 

Paipuky,

I agree with what Yo'sDad said about the suspension hanging free. I don't see any bend in your axles. The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that the problem lies in the shocks/struts. I know that it's a real stretch for you to take the word of someone who hasn't physically seen the car and particularly so after the BS that you've been through with the dealership and Mini USA but... I'm convinced. You have to take the rotating mass into account. The rotating mass of the axles alone can't possibly cause the type of vibration that you describe. Weigh one of your factory wheels with the runflat on it and then weigh one of the after market wheels with a regular tire on it.

If I were you, I'd put the aftermarket wheels on the rear only, drive the car and see if the problem happens. If it does, replace the rear shocks. If it doesn't, reverse the order and see if it happens. That will narrow down which end of the car has a bad shock/strut. Hell, you could also put a runflat on just one corner at a time, temporarily, and when the problem gets worse, that corner is the problem. I really hope that you get this resolved to your satisfaction and soon!