As I'm waiting for my Clubbie to get built, I've been doing some reading about the 2nd gen MINI reliability. Both on NAM and on consumer advocacy sites I saw an alarming amount of negative experiences.

After a brief yet eventful experience owning a Grand Cherokee as my first vehicle I switched to Toyotas and in 6 years I have not had a warranty claim bigger than a floor mat wear issue. Add to that the fact that I like to tweak the cars for AutoX and US-129 runs.

So, question goes to people with relatively long term experience with other reliable makes - how does MINI compare?

After reading all these horror stories I'm ready to either pull my deposit or (who would've thought) buy extended warranty.

 

You'll get a lot of anecdotal responses to this sort of question. Together they might paint a picture that the Mini is Okay, but not great. IOW, I would have expectations of average reliability - not as good as a Toyota or Honda but better than a Mercedes or Land Rover (or Jeep Cherokee).

- Mark

 

I understand that it's a subjective issue and not many 2nd gen owners ran out of factory warranty to need the extended. I just needed a moral boost I guess - after being spoiled by Toyota, I'm not sure how I'll react if my clutch evaporates in 10K miles.

 

I was also concerned about a lot of the negative experiences posted on this board so I checked out a Honda forum and people on that forum were complaining a lot too. I have an 2001 Honda that I've never had any problems with. At my job I hear people complaining all the time so I figure it's the same thing here.

 

Scion forums are filled with issue complaints from "paint too soft" to "CEL comes on every 5K miles", but the real problem is the young first time car buyers who can't tell the difference between Check Engine Light and oil change reminder light that like to tailgate dump trucks full of pebbles. If you do see a clutch / engine issue you are more than likely to find the same person asking advice about their cheap aftermarket turbo kit.

With MINIs, on the other hand, we get a lot more mature clientele, yet a lot more serious issues.

 

Remember, boards will always have a disproportionate number of complaints. Its been that way since 2002 when I first joined this board. I've owned 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and now I'm getting a 2009 MINI. My wife also had a 2003 MINI. The first year of any model/model change (regardless of manufacturer) will have some glitches. That's the way the 2002 was. It drops rapidly each year after. That's one reason I waited to buy second generation.

Additionally, MINIs are not driven by owners the way Hondas or Toyotas are. A greater percentage of owners will push the car harder and enjoy its performance and handling. That will lead to discovering weak points faster. MINI has always addressed any weakness in design rapidly at the factory.

OTOH if you want boring perfection buy a Honda or Toyota. I'd rather have a chance of a little increase in "service events" and a car that I look forward to driving every day.

 

The 2002 had much worse than average reliability (which I can attest to personally) as statistically tallied by Consumer reports. The ratings slowly improved, and by the time the 2nd gens were surveyed they are now demonstrating average reliability. The MINIs just aren't built like Hondas. (Thank whomever you are currently worshiping!) Driving habits have little to do with most of the MINI trouble areas. The most prevalent issues deal with the electricals/electronics. Mechanically, the car can handle severe abuse (I can attest to that as well).

 

Thanks for the insight lhoboy. I'm currently saving to order a MCS, and am balancing what I'm reading in the problems section versus the general topics. It does seem to be that many of the problems are computer/sensor/firmware/etc related. For comparison I currently drive a 99 miata that I bought new and while it has provided me 10 years of trouble free driving, it doesn't even come close to matching even a base MINI's features.

From your tag, you have a 2002 MCS. Even though they've changed the car since you purchased yours, it is still the same company and engineering staff. How well do the cars "wear" over time? How durable has your car been?

t

 

While I look at them and use them as a general guide, take Consumer Reports reliability ratings with a grain of salt. The first time they surveyed me I realized how subjective the survey was. They don't ask if you experienced problems with one of the categories such as electrical, they asked if you experienced a problem with electrical that you thought was out of the ordinary. I know folks who think no car should ever break and others who think no repair is out of the ordinary. Ah, the engine fell out, just put it back in .

I too own a Honda, and recently went to the Honda forums and read how bad and unreliable my Honda was. Didn't bother to post that mine has been great. And the least costly car I have ever owned (post purchase costs) was a car that was pilloried routinely for unreliability (again, not my specific car)!

I have yet to get a Mini and was discussing this very topic with my wife this week, after I read about the clutch and flywheel problems, the cold start engine clatter problem, the cold start limp mode problem, melting hood scoops, etc. She reassured me that 1) I maintain my cars, 2) I drive them in a manner to promote longevity, 3) the long stays at the shop (I have never had a car at the shop more than overnight to resolve a problem) are probably the exception not the rule. (Tell me that is true, please!)

 

Clutch problems are the ones that scare me most - I've never had a clutch go out on me, yet I understand that proving to the dealer that I know how to drive stick will be impossible - they can always scream abuse and ask for cash. If that happens, I'll definitely go for a Kevlar unit with light flywheel installed somewhere far far away from the dealer's shop, but I hope I won't have to.

Electric issues, though annoying, can't be blamed on the customer.

 

Clutch issues can happen with any car - its a high wear item. Autos are more reliable but less fun. If you don't abuse the clutch, the chances of a problem in the first 75K miles or so are remote, but if the thought of problems causes you to break out in hives, then I'd get a MazdaSpeed 3. Minis are great and generally reliable, but like all BMWs, they're not a stellar reliability brand. It's good to be able to "roll with the punch" with any car, but on a Mini, I think it's essential.

And have a dealer a reasonable distance away. Folks that buy a new Mini with the closest dealer 250 miles away are stark raving loonie in my opinion.

- Mark

 

With the leather seats, the car is wearing great. It still looks and feels brand new. The car is now actually more reliable than when new, but the extended warranty I bought just before the factory warranty expired has paid for itself a couple times over.

 

the clutches and flywheels on these cars are made by LuK, and have a very spotty reliability record. My toyota mechanic claims that LuK components are some of the worst-engineered drivetrain components, and I beleive him. after all, the throwout bearing is plastic. I had so many defective clutch and flywheel issues on my 2005 (2 full replacements in 25K, and Ive been driving sticks since I was 10) I opted for the automatic on my 09 and couldnt be happier. Additionally, Ive been a few MINI auto-x events where the pungent smell of toasted LuK clutches filled the air. If y're wishing to race, then consider a JCW or installing a heavy duty clutch/flywheel setup like a Clutchmasters.

otherwise, reliability has improved from the first gen cars in general, but these cars still have their funky little quirks. It's just part of owning them.

 

this statement is subjective, unless you own one, how do you know it is "less fun"? I will happily take on any equally-equipped manual tranny MCS with a JCW tune kit on any track and have an absolute blast wiping them out.

Idea: go to the JCW sub-forum, look for any thread on MCSa's with JCW tune kits, post yr "less fun" quote, and take in all the very passionate responses. Some of those motorers are a little less tolerant than I.

 

Sorry, not a manual vs. auto thread. But I do agree with "less fun" comment :P

 

As someone who has also placed an order for a Clubman, I can empathize with your anxiety. I wouldn't worry too much though. Forums like these are always made up of a few diehard fans, people doing research, and anyone who has ever had a problem. The overwhelming majority of satisfied customers prefer to enjoy their product.

I'm totally amped for my Clubman, and also find that I have some anxiety. I think it's just the normal anxiety of a big purchase, enhanced by the wait... Lord knows I've worried about everything from electronics, to included ipod/usb y-cables, clutches, engine rattle, squeaks, scratches... Heck, I've even had bad dreams that I've picked the wrong color.

In the end, I know all of the places I've checked show the Minis retain their resale value better than almost any other car, that places like Consumer reports give the Clubman high marks, that Consumer Reports also shows that 91% of Clubman owners say they'd buy the car again, and, perhaps most importantly, that this forum seems packed full of people who just keep buying Minis. I can't imagine they do it because the car is bad.

 

zoltiz,

I'm sure you're aware that brake wear and clutch wear are not covered under warranty, because the driving style controls the wear. Only defective brakes and clutches are warranted.

 

Of course I'm aware. That's what scares me. The fact that I can't prove that a clutch that goes out at 40K miles is defective. Let alone the clutch that goes out at 10K miles...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mini.html

@mongorama: Now that's what I call a moral boost. Much appreciated!

 

I checked out yr link-- those tranny failures are more than likely either the CVT or 5-speed Midlands that was offered in the 1st gen Cooper. Both had horrible reliability records, and were the reasons why MINI dumped both in favor of the Aisin auto and 5 and 6 speed Getrags.

 

Then I'll stay away. Obviously, this statement was subjective and I don't think you need to drive a auto of every make and model of car to know whether you prefer manual gearboxes over auto. It's strictly preference. And since I made no "chest thumping" comments about whether a manual would "wipe anybody out", not sure why you feel the need to go into this.

- Mark

 

In terms of reliability, the MINI, IMO is definitely the sort of car where you place your bets and take your chances. In a month, Viola will have been in service for a year and so far, I've had no major issues. Also I have not seen any reviews of reliability that were so bad that it scared me off of the MINI.

With 3 year road side assistance (which will tow your car to the nearest MINI dealership even if your dealer is over 300 miles away, like mine is), as long as you are prepared for the fact that there could be problems, you will be fine.

I also came to the MINI from a toyota and I have to say that my toyota is still running great, but... it really didn't do me any favors with its horrid handling and braking that had to start about a mile back from where you wanted it to actually stop... I'm glad I bought the MINI. All of the hassle that it was to get my MINI was worth it to fall in love with driving all over again.

And just as an aside Mark, sequence... there are all sorts of people on forums with opinions that will differ from yours. There's nothing wrong with that, if there weren't varied opinions none of these conversations would be worth having.

 

Yeah, try me slushbox boy !!!

 

I don't know Mark, when I drive to the dealer, I often enjoy the drive. The closest dealer for me is Brian harris in Baton Rouge, LA.

 

Because yr comment "autos are more reliable but less fun" (emphasis mine) is a shaky blanket judgement that can get others, like those of us who have nothing less than a blast with our quick shifting, smooth-as-silk, reliable MCSa's, riled up needlessly. And about the percieved chest-thumping: I didnt mean to come off like this, but NAM is full of posers and former rice-fueled fan-boyz who think that just because they have a manual tranny, they are king s**t, and everyone/everything else is somehow lesser and inferior. That is, until they get to the track and discover something alarming: autos regularly outperform manuals in 1/4 mile, stock Auto-X, you name it.

besides, my choice in going auto, in addition to swearing off crappy manual BMW products forever, was due to impending left knee surgery this spring, and I want to be able to have as much fun motoringduring recovery as I am having fun now.

 

If you know how to shift, you can whoop on autos. That's why I regular stomp the **** out of my supervisor's 400 hp Mercury Marauder at the track. Sounds like you had a bad run in with somebody with a manual tranny.