Alright, it is a feature, not a bug

Great point. Since I view cars as, well, cars, I had not thought that folks might be complaining because it is their baby. (Don't tell anybody, but I have never named any of my cars. Shhhh.) I will keep that in mind.

 

I keep an eye on both the 1st & 2nd gen forums here on NAM, and the one thing that I can say that is pretty consistent is that the 'Stock Problems/Issues' section on the 2nd gen is a good deal shorter on a daily basis than the 1st gen equivalent forum. Not to say that there is a comparison to the two as far as problems go, but the 2nd gen forum is fairly small, with around 15-30 posts a day, usually focusing around the same things that seem to be issues with the second gen car, i.e. sunroof, cold-start rattle, hood scoop, etc.

NAM has been an invaluable source regarding what to look out for in my May built '05 JCW. A lot of what has a tendency to fail in the 1st gens have failed in my Mini, and what I have looked at that might potentially fail in the future keeps me prepared (financially) for what may come after the warranty goes.

In looking through the posts, and as a potential purchaser of a second gen Mini, I mainly am looking out for the problem trends, and will be including my purchasing decision based on how these trends weigh in my head. The cold-start rattle doesn't bother me as much as I live in Northern California, but it might weigh in more if I lived in a colder region. However, the one thing that really bothers me the most right now is issues surrounding the clutch, which do not seem to have been addressed sufficiently from the 1st gen Minis. My '05 JCW is currently in the shop for known clutch issues, which are covered under my dwindling warranty. It does make me think long and hard about the probability of footing a $2500-$3000 bill post-warranty in the future for poorly designed clutch components. Will it keep me away from the Clubman S that I'm considering in a year? Its a tough call, but it is being weighed HEAVILY in my decision. Automatics are not my cup of tea, and my current '08 Cooper loaner has finalized this decision even more.

Having an '08 Cooper for a week has made me really see that the overall quality of the car is more solid than my '05, and definitely more comfortable, even in its true base form. This rather unique opportunity to drive a loaner for a week is really giving my brain something to chew on. I really would not like to leave the brand, as I love my Mini, but I have seriously considered it as I continue to argue with the service department over my clutch and other known warranty issues, but perhaps it really does depend on the dealership itself, and not the brand, as sequence pointed out. I'm lucky that there are multiple other dealership options available to me, one of which has gotten rave reviews consistently (certainly wasn't the dealership I went to).

 

I have had my 09 JCW for just over 2 months. I have had the car back at the dealer for service 3 times. Mostly for little non-sense things, a badge not on properly, arm rest cover was broken at delivery, fastening clip on fender flare broken, a few other little things. Would I buy the car again? Yes. Is it as well put together as my prior BMW's and Toyota's, Acura's and Honda's? No.

I will remain satisfied as long as the engine does not blow up. That happened to my wife's car after 3 weeks and 700 miles on a 2004 Chrysler Town and Country. The engine just seized up. The dealership installed a new engine which took 3 weeks to install. That car was crap from the get go. I will NEVER buy another American car again.

Now go buy one. You are missing out on a good time!!!

 

A little over 5 months and I'm still as happy as the day I picked her up. What a great little car to drive.

My previous car was a Toyota Camry. It was a good car but I had it 7 years and was just tired of it and things were starting to break/wear our so ... walking around the parking lot at work one day, trying to decide what kind of car I should get, I noticed at least 60% of the cars were either Honda or Toyota. BORING!!! And then I saw a MINI. I fell in love. I read all the 'bad press' but since I live in sunny So Cal (no cold start problems), I decided to just go for it. Ya only live once. I went for a test drive and that was it.

I've never kept a car more than 7 years, that just seems to be the point where I'm tired of driving the same old thing everyday ... things start to break, wear out ... whatever. Anyway, I got the extended warranty for 7 years, I think it was $2K, but if anything goes wrong, I'm covered. I plan to trade her in on a new one when it runs out because I'm pretty sure that nothing else will do now.

 

I have a 2009 JCW and just past 2,600 miles with no problems at all. I don't forsee having any problems. I have been getting 29+ miles per gal.around town. The lowest I ever got was 26 and the best I got was 34. I check the old fashon way using pen and paper.
My car does not rattle and is fun to drive.
It has gotten down to 30 DeGrees and I have no cold start rattle.
The more I drive this car the better I like it.
I suggest you go test drive one before you decide you don't want to purchase one. I think you will be pleased and will probobly decide to get one.
Ronnie948

 

Glad yours is working out. I have done test drives. My wife mentioned getting a Clubman so I took two test drives that the dealer kept very short and were not in the drivetrain combo she was interested in. (Sorry, don't have those; this is what we have to test drive). One had a LOT more engine noise than the other. Decided to hold off, but started thinking I would like one of those for me! (My wife has our best car and loves it; I drive our worst car).

Several weeks ago I decided it was time to get serious, so I went to another dealer and test drove 3 Clubmans (manual, manual S, automatic S). Each drive was 11 miles and included highway, although at rush hour. All were great. Noticed a few quirks. The non sport seat was very uncomfortable. When I took the off ramp with the automatic to a stop the car jumped like I had popped a clutch and it was not a rapid slow down. At freeway speeds if you hit the gas in the base model you have little, you have to drop a couple gears to get the torque and pickup needed. In the turbo, hit the gas in any of the upper gears and you have it. (On our freeways if you can't hit the gas and go, you could be toast, but my wife says I feel that way only because I WANT the turbo. She may be right). Six gears in the manual were overkill - it was pretty easy on the freeway to shift up from 4th to 6th without missing a beat and it did not seem to stretch at all cruising in 5th. The engine noise from the turbo model is more pleasant, lower sounding to me than the non-turbo. Came away thinking the Manual S was the way to go and I was really pretty excited about the car.

So then I started seriously researching the potential problem areas and reached my conclusion. I have received a PM telling me to look at the non turbo and some of the engine concerns go away. I will take a look.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. If one day you do decide to own a MINI don't forget to drop a line here on NAM.

 

The only reason I'm getting a MINI is because it's owned by BMW.

I've had 5 BMW's in the past, and all have been super reliable. I hope the quality transferred to the MINI. I mean, the Range Rover is very reliable ever since BMW revamped it.

 

Interestingly, I received a PM suggesting I look at the non S as the issues above may be exclusive to the turbo models. The first thread seems to be exclusively S models (save one post - #58), the 3rd thread seems to be exclusively S and the 2nd thread is not clear. A couple JustAs have reported the problem but many posters do not fully identify their vehicle.

Any thoughts on this?

 

Welll the R56 Cooper is a NA engine so you don't have the twin scroll turbo and all associated hardware that comes with it. Test drive it as see if you like it. I did drive a Cooper Clubman auto and quite frankly found the car to be adequate in city driving and a little lacking/overtaxed in the highway. Since the Clubman is heavier than the hardtop there may be a difference in terms of performance.

I owned a 2002 R50 Cooper and it was a fairly solid car. No reason to think the R56 Cooper will be any less.

Some food for taught indeed.

 

re the cold start chatter: my dealer's service advisors are very upfront with me because they knew I used to be in the car sales business. when I asked them about this, the only cold start issues they've dealt with, less than a handful, all have been early build 07 base Coopers. they have read NAM and M2 posts concerning this, and like me, they see a pattern where the operators are starting their cars, but not allowing them to fully warm up before shutting them off (like to move a few feet or out of a garage) thereby "fooling" the Prince engine's oil-on-demand system. This is only a theory right now, but it does hold some mechanical merit, because other so-called fixes arent working.

If it was a widespread problem, we certainly should hear about it to the point of possible recall/refit.

My dealer claims they have had to address more problems with stubborn-starting MINIs at higher altitudes (8,000 feet +) than the cold start chatter. And as far as the carbon buildup issue, they tell customers to run either techroline or BG44K frequently, dont start yr car cold then shut it off (DI system tends to run rich when cold) and get out on the highway and open it up.

And as far as QC, BMW uses sourced parts, like the window mechanisms/motors and clutches/flywheels, and they have no control over those companys' QC procedures.

 

There is no excuse for BMW not enforcing QC on parts made by outside suppliers.

 

I'm not an auto engineer, but I've been thinking on the same lines. It appears from most descriptions of the cold start issue and death rattle that the car was started moved then stopped and restarted. There is a lot of computer control in these engines, on cold days I've made a point of getting in and not turning her off while I close the garage door or some other misc task.

On the techroline or BG44K, is that an official MINI recommendation? Don't some gas companies already put that in their gas and is that not enough?

As far as QC on vendors many auto companies have the same issues. The best thing to do is make them aware there is a problem and encourage them to resolve it.

 

[QUOTE=sequence;2655110]re the cold start chatter: my dealer's service advisors are very upfront with me because they knew I used to be in the car sales business. when I asked them about this, the only cold start issues they've dealt with, less than a handful, all have been early build 07 base Coopers. they have read NAM and M2 posts concerning this, and like me, they see a pattern where the operators are starting their cars, but not allowing them to fully warm up before shutting them off (like to move a few feet or out of a garage) thereby "fooling" the Prince engine's oil-on-demand system. This is only a theory right now, but it does hold some mechanical merit, because other so-called fixes arent working.
/QUOTE]

Like I said in a previous post, I have had the cold start noise on the first start up in the morning and I only have 5k miles on my car. This is something that I have not reported to my dealership and I think other people live with it as well.

Someone else said that we should ignore little noises and just "motor on". Well the most recent noise that I am hearing is coming from my right wheel. That seriously concerns me as it could be dangerous to me or other drivers. Who knows, it could be something minor, but I will take it in to the dealership.

I really like my MINI. It is fast, has character and handles better than any car I've owned, but I doubt I will keep it past my warranty period.

 

I'll keep mine after warranty, because that's when I can start working on her!

 

Didn't read the rest of the thread but I completely agree with this statement. My mother bought herself a Caddy SRX, few weeks later she read in the consumer report that her car was going to be the most unreliable POS ever build by the human race, she freaked out. Three years later she has yet to have one problem with her car..... But she still reads that silly magazine

 

I think that the people that post to this site represent a reasonable sample of MINI drivers. Not everyone that posts complain of problems that they are experiencing. As matter of fact, many people overlook or hold back the issues they are experiencing due a variety of reasons. It reminds me of my iPhone and how I would not buy any other piece of equipment even though it has given me a lot of problems. Other Apple fans feel the same way about their computers.

This forum is an excellent place to find problems that are occurring with the models that MINI/BMW produces. I do not think I imagined the warped hoodscoop on the S I have seen in the pics on this forum; that is a real problem that needs to be fixed along with other mechanical problems that MINI is ignoring.

 

It all distills down into a personal decision for each prospective owner -- based on the level of effort put into educating yourself about the problem, its prevalence, and its associated severity (after applying whatever information filter you feel is appropriate to the Internet-based shared experiences)...

...how much risk are you willing to live with?

Some people are willing to take the risk based on what they think they know (or don't know). Others are not. C'est la vie.

 

I would suggest checking out a supercharged MINI, ideally with the JCW tuning kit. They completely rock and are rock solid. 90k hard miles on mine and zero problems. I drove the R56 and R55 and was underwhelmed. Used, low-mileage 05-06 R53s are out there for great prices.

 

Tazio for president!

 

If they made a supercharged Clubman, I would! I really need the extra space the Clubman provides.

 

That may have been the dealer's experience, but if you go through the cold start chatter thread there are many late 07 builds, several 08 builds and even a few 09s.

Unfortunately, I need a vehicle that does not dictate I drive it certain distances. Sometimes I back my car out of the garage to wash it or move it to the front of the house while I build something in the garage. Or turn it on briefly to check something I just did to the car. My grocery store is less than a mile away. And so on...

As to adding Techroline, etc, not a bad idea or practice, but why should it be necessary due to a design flaw? Maybe as regards the sunroof we should just sit on top of our vehicles when we drive! (Adding some levity, not knocking what you suggest ).

BTW, not that any of this is the turbocharger's fault, but who makes the turbo?

 

I garage all my cars and have experienced what seemed like a serious problem with both Audi's and BMW's. Here is what happens - you start the car and back it out to wash it. Start again to return it to the garage(both times the car is quickly turned off). Next start it hardly runs and sounds like the engine will blow up any second. After a short run(1 min?) the engine smoothes out and runs like nothing ever happened!

This happened to me about three times before I realized that these two quick starts and stops were somehow fooling the computers and causing the problem. I now let the engines on all my cars run at least two minutes(approximately) each time I start them and have not had this problem occur in any of my cars for several years. It's never happened on my MCCS and I live in NNJ.

 

+1

I like this post

 

The OP would be better served if he gets to test drive a 2005 or 2006 MCS.