1533 miles and the wifes MCS is perfect. Actually we had a fog light replaced under warranty. Other than that perfect.

Regards,

Pat

 

Thanks, Pat. Am guessing you posted this tongue in cheek after reading my last post...

 

Sooner or later topics tend to wander, and the main points begin to repeat themselves. Which is the main reason I think this thread has served its purpose and is in the process of turning into a discussion thread, as you noted above.

 

Just chiming in,
I just traded in my 07' MCS for a slightly used 08' Mustang GT Convertible . I had multiple issues with my MCS including cold start, condensation freezing in the intake manifold, clutch pedal stuck to the floor (twice and no it wasn't because of the floormats), broken hood release (and just when I got in my Alta CAI - yeah I was PO'd ), traction control stopped working (I actually didn't mind that one too much ), and a few other problems. I understand what Lotus is talking about and I know every vehicle made has issues listed on their forum pages. I absolutely loved driving the Mini, it was a great driving car. Mine just happened to be prone to problems. I know, I know; other owners have had zero problems and that's good for them. If that was true with mine I would still own it. As far as fun driving experiences go, you have to realize that there are other vehicles out there that deliver on that end as well. I have a friend with a Lotus Elise and trust me he doesn't miss his Mini. I on the other hand will miss it, but only when I think of my drive on the Dragon. Good luck to all of you with Mini's and those who choose not to keep their Mini. I really hope that BMW gets their shift together and takes care of some of these issues. I have no regrets on buying my Mini as I did have some great times with it, but I also have no regrets on trading it in as I'm now having a great time with my mustang! Happy motoring

 

i leased my '07 MCS with the full intention of buying it at the end of two years. i loved the car so much, and was so intent or owning it forever that i added a JCW aero kit to it at my own cost. i was willing to overlook the little annoying things, like the sunroof not opening when it's warm out without me punching it from the outside, or the touch sensor for my hatch to work when it is cold out. i even started out ignoring the cold start noise, having faith as a former BMW F&I person that MINI would correct the problem and stand by the car.
no more. not only has the problem not been corrected, it is worse than ever. my car sounds like an old mercedes diesel box truck on most starts. it rattles and shakes, and you'd swear there was something seriously wrong with it. but depending which day i go for service (even though i see the same SA), it is either a non-issue or something MINI is working on a fix for.
besides the cold start noise, which could be nothing more than so much less than one would expect of a $32,000 new car, i am aggravated at the way MINI handles it. don't tell me that all the cars do it, they don't. not only do i know folks with r56 MSCs that don't have the problem, the loaner cars you always give me after i drive an hour (when i don't hit traffic) for service don't make this noise.
i feel like a take more time off from work for taking my MINI in for service than i do for my own leisure. this month, it was an ECU problem (increased emissions caused the engine light to go on). oh, and they had to fill the brake fluid (less than 1/2 full), even though i just filled it up (near empty and brake warning lights on) in september. and the best part is the SA tried to tell me it was low because the pads were worn. so they replaced my front brakes (at 21,000 miles, a first ever for me).
last month, it was in for its regular service, the month before that i took it in 'cause the cold start problem was so bad. there they told me that it isn't a problem, to which i asked what just in april they had a service bulliten to replace the tensioner and did that if it is a non-issue.
if the dealer was local, i could have dealt with leaving the car there various times for service. because i love my car. but it costs me money to take my car in for service, because i need to take one day off (or at least 1/2 a day off) to drop it off, and the same to pick it up.
i was not a hard decision for me to make when i decided the car would be returned after i make the next two lease payments. while i will miss how much fun it is to drive, and how cute it looks, i will not miss the headaches, and being treated like i am an idiot by the service department. i worked for BMW long enough to know they don't usually go on fishing expeditions to find the route of a problem. but i also would expect that me SA would have the same answer about the issue each time i come in (either it exists or it doesn't).
i simply can not risk buying this car. if you heard my car on a cold start (doesn't even matter what the weather is outside), you would swear some serious damage is being done. and if my MINI dealer's service department can't even decide if this is a problem or not a problem, how can i trust they will stand behind me when or if something does go wrong?
sad to say, but when this one goes back, i will not be getting another MINI. i now make a point out of telling everyone who asks me about my "cute little car" how many stupid little problems i have had with it. i feel that for what this car costs, it should be more reliable. i also think that MINI should have a better way of handling the cold start issue, whether it is a real issue or just a noise issue, i don't want it on my car!

 

[quote=bitharvest;2666352]i leased my '07 MCS with the full intention of buying it at the end of two years. i loved the car so much, and was so intent or owning it forever that i added a JCW aero kit to it at my own cost. i was willing to overlook the little annoying things, like the sunroof not opening when it's warm out without me punching it from the outside, or the touch sensor for my hatch to work when it is cold out. i even started out ignoring the cold start noise, having faith as a former BMW F&I person that MINI would correct the problem and stand by the car.
no more. not only has the problem not been corrected, it is worse than ever. my car sounds like an old mercedes diesel box truck on most starts. it rattles and shakes, and you'd swear there was something seriously wrong with it. but depending which day i go for service (even though i see the same SA), it is either a non-issue or something MINI is working on a fix for.
besides the cold start noise, which could be nothing more than so much less than one would expect of a $32,000 new car, i am aggravated at the way MINI handles it. don't tell me that all the cars do it, they don't. not only do i know folks with r56 MSCs that don't have the problem, the loaner cars you always give me after i drive an hour (when i don't hit traffic) for service don't make this noise.
i feel like a take more time off from work for taking my MINI in for service than i do for my own leisure. this month, it was an ECU problem (increased emissions caused the engine light to go on). oh, and they had to fill the brake fluid (less than 1/2 full), even though i just filled it up (near empty and brake warning lights on) in september. and the best part is the SA tried to tell me it was low because the pads were worn. so they replaced my front brakes (at 21,000 miles, a first ever for me).
last month, it was in for its regular service, the month before that i took it in 'cause the cold start problem was so bad. there they told me that it isn't a problem, to which i asked what just in april they had a service bulliten to replace the tensioner and did that if it is a non-issue.
if the dealer was local, i could have dealt with leaving the car there various times for service. because i love my car. but it costs me money to take my car in for service, because i need to take one day off (or at least 1/2 a day off) to drop it off, and the same to pick it up.
i was not a hard decision for me to make when i decided the car would be returned after i make the next two lease payments. while i will miss how much fun it is to drive, and how cute it looks, i will not miss the headaches, and being treated like i am an idiot by the service department. i worked for BMW long enough to know they don't usually go on fishing expeditions to find the route of a problem. but i also would expect that me SA would have the same answer about the issue each time i come in (either it exists or it doesn't).
i simply can not risk buying this car. if you heard my car on a cold start (doesn't even matter what the weather is outside), you would swear some serious damage is being done. and if my MINI dealer's service department can't even decide if this is a problem or not a problem, how can i trust they will stand behind me when or if something does go wrong?
sad to say, but when this one goes back, i will not be getting another MINI. i now make a point out of telling everyone who asks me about my "cute little car" how many stupid little problems i have had with it. i feel that for what this car costs, it should be more reliable. i also think that MINI should have a better way of handling the cold start issue, whether it is a real issue or just a noise issue, i don't want it on my car![/quote

What I don't understand is why Consumer Reports rates the Mini so high in reliability while J.D. Powers rates them next to last. Mini definitely does elicit that "love-hate" relationship that we have all experienced. Some consumer reviews at CR definitely indicate poor cold weather operation. In addition to oil related noises, throttle body freeze up seemed to be an issue.

 

throttle body freeze up can be mitigated by running a bottle of Heet every third fill-up in the winter, to eradicate any moisture in the fuel line that may freeze. The cold start clatter, however, is a whole different can o worms BMW has stumbled over the last couple years attempting fixes that dont work--inc engine replacements. Plus there are reports from Europe that the Peugeot 207c, which has the same engine than the R56 S, has the cold start clatter as well. what a mess.

Tritec retrofit anyone?

 

Interesting point. The most quoted JD Power ranking is initial quality. That is, how was the car upon delivery and for the first 90 days.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008063

In the linked article they say it is a good predictor of long term quality, but to me that seems like it might be a leap of faith they have perpetuated. I can imagine poor assembly of good components, well designed, and good assembly of poor quality components or poorly designed.

Consumer Reports probably viewed the new Mini as a minor change from the old Mini and from what I understand quality had improved on the old Mini over time. Second, have you ever recd a CR survey on auto quality? I have and now I throw them in the trash. Very subjective. "Did you have a problem with this car in the last 12 months which you considered serious?" I cannot find a copy of the survey but did find this link, and about halfway down they get into this issue. Clearly some folks think everything is a serious problem and others think nothing is a serious problem.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

I found the following paragraph interesting (emphasis mine):
This was evident in reactions to the problem of sludge in the engines of many Toyotas - a problem which Toyota, to its credit, eventually admitted and acted on. The Corolland forums were full of people claiming the problem was not real but simply in the minds of those who claimed they had it; and if was real, it was the fault of owners and not Toyota.

 

Even with all the problems I still want one.. I just dont want to spend $30,000 on a car that may spend alittle too much time getting fixed.I wont settle for S,, I must get the JCW. I will wait till next year I guess.. It would be a third car anyway. Just for the record I wouldnt buy one for the gas mileage, my current two cars gas mileage adds up to 14 MPG not average HAHA.. I am happy about the resession and low gas prices.. Gas at even $3.00 a gallon is considered a bargain to me.


Rob

 

Were you at Bill Jacobs on the 7th checking out the new convertible? The reason I asked is I bought my Clubman that morning, and there were a lot of people checking out that car. Also, Knauz and Patrick are a lot closer to you. Is Bill Jacobs the best for service? I bought my car there because they gave me the best price, but it's a hike for me to drive to Naperville from the Northern Burbs.

My previous car was a Honda Accord Coupe. The only issues i had with it were a torn seat, and the car was out of alignment. Both issues I noticed upon delivery, and the dealer fixed them under warranty. Other than those two minor annoyances, that car gave me no other problems. I am praying the Mini has the same luck, because as others have said, it's all relative.

Lotus, ultimately it's your decision, and although your concerns are legitimate, the car is a hoot to drive. If you are that worried about the cold start chatter, ask them to extend the powertrain warranty to 100k when taking delivery. The worse thing the dealership says is no.

 

Yep, I sure was. I was going to be in the area for other reasons, so the timing was perfect for me to stop in and give the R57 the once over. In fact, Motorwerks in Minneapolis is the closest dealer to me and I've had good experiences there. Other members of our club who live further south go to Naperville and I hear good things from them with regards to service satisfaction. I have no experience with the other places you mention. The two major Chicago-based clubs (CMMC and CMDG) can probably give you plenty of references.

The MA I talked to at Bill Jacobs acted as if he'd never heard of the ongoing PSA engine issues (death rattle and freezing throttle body). It was not a big confidence booster.

 

Have been asked what other cars I will look at and I really do not know. However, at the store today I found this Motor Trend article on sporty cars that 1) are reasonably priced, 2) don't guzzle gas, 3) can be a daily driver, family car AND plaything, and 4) are fun to drive pocket rockets.

They had good things to say about the Mini, but ranked it next to last (it had the lowest power to wt ratio of the group, so the performance suffered but MPG shined). If you don't read the article, be aware that some cars are significantly different than in prior years. Reliability was not a consideration. In reverse order:

#8 Dodge Caliber SRT 4
#7 Mini Clubman S
#6 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
#5 Honda Civic Si
#4 Subaru Impreza WRX
#3 Mazdaspeed 3 Grand Touring
#2 Chevrolet Cobalt SS
#1 Volkswagen GTI

They had interesting perspectives on each. Text was positive about the Clubman (fun, best mpg, cute, but pricey with too stiff a suspension for everyday), Ralliart is the hands down winner of the group for those who think the Evo X is the ultimate, Civic is the most kart like car in the group, but felt asleep around town until you get into the 6k to 9k rpm range, and it requires a lot of driver involvement, Subaru the fastest with uninspired styling, lumpy idling and noise, Mazda has a pinpoint personality and churns out torque in any gear but has some shortcomings on rough roads, Cobalt is the real deal with a rental car interior, holds the lap record at Nurburgring for FWD compact cars and nearly beat an Evo MR at Laguna Seca in a handling test. The VW GTI was not the best at anything, but is superior on the road and very good at the track with a posh, ergonomic delight of an interior.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

 

Car and Driver did a similar test, probably the same test-cars as the MT article, their results:
7-Lancer Ralliart
6-MINI JCW Clubman
5-Civic Si
4- Impreza WRX
3- Cobalt SS
2- VW GTi
1- Mazdaspeed 3
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

Of all of them (besides the MINI of course) I'd either get the GTI, or splurge and get a WRX STi.

 

This is not the freezing up issue that I had. It was not in the fuel lines but frozen condensation in the intake manifold. My MA at Bill Jacobs in Naperville was the individual who let me know why my car was running so poorly. It was the second time it had happened to me and according to my MA he indicated that BMW had been working on a fix for 4 months with no success yet. The frozen condensation would disrupt the butterfly valve when it cycles open and closed during startup. Right now you just have to let your car idle for 10 minutes to 20 minutes and hope that the temps aren't so frigid that the engine compartment gets warm enough to melt the ice. And your right the whole thing is a freaking mess

 

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...r/Reliability/

 

I think MINI should have never abandoned the venerable TRITEC in lieu of the French Fryer.

 

I like the french frier, it can do double duty the next time another Ike comes to Houston!

 

Newbie here.....I wont buy ..until BMW corrects the collapsed lifter on startup issue...poor quallity control....dealership SA replies..This sounds normal or the isseue is Bad gas...I want to own a Mini CooperS but this seems like ..Hopping into the boxcar...on that freightrain..thats leading us to the shower stall!

 

Mini TDI, I don't like your last sentence above...

 

Somehow I think you missed the point of that last post? Or what it was referring to!!!

Can't say I like the reference myself, it's a bit harsh and, IMHO a bit crude and insensitive.

But I understand the emotions when being told it's nothing, that can be stirred up. But a better analogy would have been more appropriate, that's just my take.

 

Uhh, perhaps you should read up on your World War II history before using the word awesome with respect to the analogy.

 

I agree, I didn't get Mini TDI's analogy the first time... Sorry...

 

Didn't mean to offend, Please excuse, Been driving for 42 yrs. Gotta say the "Start up clatter" is very serious issue with reguard to long term reliability. Collapsed liffters, Valves hitting pistons, Cam chain breakage, Engines replaced.....This sounds like the US automakers problems that occured in the 70's......Now at this point in time,considering CAD and computer aided every thing, these very serious problems should have been identified before released to the public....When BMW has a REAL fix...I'll be a new MINI owner!

 

CAD computer design doesn't guarantee engines free of defects. I have a friend that worked at WW for 11 years and he is well familiarized with the German way of thinking and doing things.

Germans, outside of Germany, do not admit to fault. They favorite phrase when confronted with a massive product defect is "That is impossible!". His tales of him dealing with German VW management with the Jetta power window falling fiasco are something you would expect to see on the Jay Leno show or the comedy channel. Germans like to live in denial when it comes to things like this.

Second, they believe that if a car works good in Germany it should work just as good anywhere else in the world. Germany has a fairly benign climate more like any other country in the world. They don't have extreme winters or scorching hot summers. When Germans travel to other parts of the world and see that their cars don't perform as well in high altitudes (Read the Andes in South America or the Himalayas in Asia) their eyes open wide in disbelief like little children that have never been out of the Barney show stage.

His tales are amazing. I told him he should write a book exposing the auto German car industry. Is not what everybody thinks it is.

 

Interesting insight. I've always wondered about engineering windows that autodip in general, but especially in any climate where temperatures drop below freezing.