Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs.

Engine spins but it won't start! HELP

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  #26  
Old 03-05-2009 | 04:42 PM
frenchie's Avatar
frenchie
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From: NJ
If you removed the fuse and the element was visibly open then I am curious how you tested the fuse with the light, did you touch the test probe to both sides of the fuse and it lit up both times?

there should be power on the feed side of the fuse, but if its blown there will not be power on the other side.

Also prior to replacing the pump, with the connector on the pump exposed did you verify that there was no battery voltage getting to the pump connector?

The good side is the problem is resolved; if your LTFT was high and after a few hours of operation with the new pump the values go back closer to zero, this is a strong indication that the old pump was weak (not dead) and probably needed replacing anyway!
 

Last edited by frenchie; 03-05-2009 at 04:48 PM.
  #27  
Old 03-05-2009 | 04:56 PM
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zeus7625
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From: So far south in AL, one more step and I'm swimming (in oil)
OUCH.
I came so close to doing the exact same thing.
What scares me is that I have not found out why the fuse blew to begin with.
Carry spare 20A fuses!
 
  #28  
Old 03-05-2009 | 05:20 PM
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AstroBlackS
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From: CT
I had the same issue once with the fuse, what caused mine to short out was the post cat o2 sensor. I had installed a header, and the clearance between the o2 sensor's wiring and the heatshield was practically non-existent. I didn't think anything of it, but after I started up the car, it ran fine, drove back to the house, turned it off, then went to start again a bit later, and nothing.

Turns out, the o2 sensor shorted out while rubbing against the heat shield, and in turn shorted out the fuse and/or relay (I can't remember which) that the fuel pump was on. Go figure.

It maybe something worth looking at underneath, just to see if there is any noticeable damage to the o2 sensor or wiring.
 
  #29  
Old 03-05-2009 | 08:36 PM
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blue agave
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From: Mid Coast Maine
Originally Posted by frenchie
If you removed the fuse and the element was visibly open then I am curious how you tested the fuse with the light, did you touch the test probe to both sides of the fuse and it lit up both times?
The tester is one of those auto parts store plastic jobs with two metal prongs and an led. It works the same in either direction. But, I tested the fuse several times and the led lit. Also, the relay clicked. I believe the fuse is between the battery and the relay, so bad fuse - no relay click.

[/quote]Also prior to replacing the pump, with the connector on the pump exposed did you verify that there was no battery voltage getting to the pump connector?[/quote]

Questionable. I couldn't tell from the wiring diagram whether the voltage comes directly to the pump terminal pair or is fed through one of the tank level sensor terminals. I assume the pump is always hot and is activated by completing the ground connection. One sensor terminal was hot. I was able to establish that the other wires were connected to something (either ground, a device or another wire?) with an ohmeter. There was no voltage through either of the center terminals of the harness socket.

[/quote] The good side is the problem is resolved; if your LTFT was high and after a few hours of operation with the new pump the values go back closer to zero, this is a strong indication that the old pump was weak (not dead) and probably needed replacing anyway![/quote]

What is my LTFT?
 
  #30  
Old 03-06-2009 | 04:49 AM
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frenchie
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From: NJ
LTFT

The Long Term Fuel Trim is a parameter that reflects the amount of correction to fuel delivery that the ECU has made due to aging.

An OBD-II scan tool capable of displaying "Data Stream" is required to view this and other data.

And thanks for all the feedback!
 
  #31  
Old 03-06-2009 | 07:25 AM
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blue agave
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From: Mid Coast Maine
Vindication, Not

Wife rousted me out of bed way too early this morning: "THE CAR WON'T START AGAIN " Went out in my pj's cause I knew it would only take a second to change out the fuse. Pulled the fuse, looked at it, held it up to a light, used a magnifying glass . . . fuse perfectly okay. Even took a known working 20A from the door lock and same problem - dead fuel pump, BTW - we need an emoticon with tears streaming down it's face. I'm gonna get to the bottom of this f@#$ker and get back to you with the hidden secret solution of yet another cosmic maddening Mini malfunctioned motoring madness mystery (that's why I sleep in).
 
  #32  
Old 03-06-2009 | 09:33 AM
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frenchie
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From: NJ
The pump should run for 2 seconds after key on....The ECU looks for pulses from the crank sensor; if present the pump will keep running. If not present the ECU stops the pump.
 
  #33  
Old 03-06-2009 | 10:26 AM
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blue agave
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From: Mid Coast Maine
Pump does not run AT ALL. So, it has to boblem, e.g. clogged fe either a pressure pruel filter, or electrical sensor, e.g. immobilizer, or about 6 others. I'm changing the fuel filter right now. Will report back.
 
  #34  
Old 03-06-2009 | 11:25 AM
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1FSTMINI
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From: Hotlanta
sorry for going off topic but has anyone found any difference changing the fuel filter other than when people are having problems
 

Last edited by 1FSTMINI; 03-06-2009 at 05:54 PM.
  #35  
Old 03-06-2009 | 05:42 PM
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herbie hind
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Originally Posted by zeus7625
I'll be putting her up on ramps and checking every inch of the underside and the engine bay for any sign of bare wires.
The fuse was a warning. The problem still lurks.

My thanks again to all who helped. I brag about this site to all MINI drivers I meet.

BTW - I know now the the entire left side of the fuse panel on the driver's side is lined with spare fuses of different amperages.
the ground bars on these cars are notorious for corrosion , if you get alot of corrosion you can pull enough amps to blow fuses . all the grounds on the bars are brown, they're up front (long strips ) near lights .
 
  #36  
Old 03-06-2009 | 05:54 PM
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herbie hind
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testers test potential (voltage) not current flow . so yes you proved voltage was present . put the tester pointer on one side and clip to ground . lites . then put tester pointer on other side to ground . lites? no ? bad fuse . going across the fuse, if it lites , fuse bad . if dimm could be good fuse, deoends on tester resistance . multi meter is best .
 
  #37  
Old 03-06-2009 | 08:09 PM
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frenchie
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by herbie hind
the ground bars on these cars are notorious for corrosion , if you get alot of corrosion you can pull enough amps to blow fuses . all the grounds on the bars are brown, they're up front (long strips ) near lights .


Corrosion will introduce more resistance into the circuit!

More resistance means less current in circuit.

Less current will not cause the fuse to blow!
 
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