I have a 2009 MCS with a build date of 01/09. Has anyone with a build date that's this recent (or newer) had the Cold Start issue?

I've had my MCS for 2 weeks now and while I haven't had the issue yet, I've just come across all of these posts and now I am of course scared to death .

p.s. I have searched the forum and there's about a million posts about Cold Starts. I've tried to look through all of them but I am just getting overwhelmed here.

 

Sorry to say, my 1/09 build Clubman S has done this a few times since I got it mid-Feb, it does seem to be cold temp related, well cool anyway since one day it did it when it was in the 50's...........

My local dealer says they're waiting for a fix that actually works, and in the mean time we're under warranty, so I've decided not to worry about it, and simply drive and enjoy my car. I'd recommend the same strategy to you, what else can you do?

There have been threads here where they indicate BMW has put out a fix with new chain, new tensioners, new sprockets etc, but then we had a thread where the vacuum pump failed, stopped the cam and destroyed the engine too, so I don't know if they've really got a handle on this yet......we also don't really know if this affects a lot of cars, or just a lot of the posters on NAM......

My dealer tried the later (but not the latest) fix on their 2008 Demo and it didn't do the trick, maybe the one I mentioned above will ultimately do it............

 

Thanks for the help Dave, although I wish you had a different answer
I live in Santa Barbara so not much cold weather here but it seems like this is happening to virtually every S owner (I know not every-single-one but it almost seems like a matter of time for all of us ).

I know the theory of "people on forums are usually people with a problem" but I don't really buy that. I'm here and I don't have any problems (yet) and it seems like many of the people with this problem were already members here BEFORE they started getting this issue.

I feel like picketing in front of the Mini dealer so no one else has to go through this . Maybe if people stopped buying S models this would be higher on Mini's priority list.

 

I believe cars built after sometimes in March of 09 have the latest version of the chain tensioner/guide/sproket/vanos units installed at the factory. The jury's still not back yet on the latest version of the "fix".

 

If you haven't experienced the problem, and probably won't due to your location, why would you want to picket your dealer for a problem that you don't have?

I think MINI/BMW will get it sorted out, in the meantime it hasn't caused me a problem as such, I heard the noise on a few occasions, within a block or two it was gone. I'm just going to keep driving it until/if it does become a problem, till then I'm not going to worry about it - that's what warranties are for...............

If everyone who posts on NAM had the problem, that would amount to what .02% of the cars sold so far? Is that enough to even say it's a "problem" that all potential S owners should not buy a car? I don't think so.........just my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it!

 

I follow your point Dave and I really do appreciatte your optimism and general good attitude about the situation.

Trust me, I hope my cooper doesn't develop the problem but I'm seeing quite a few posts from people on here that are having the problem. Also, from all of the posts I've read, it certainly doesn't seem to be isolated to Cold climate conditions, although that does seem to aggravate the situation.

I don't necessarily think something can only be considered a "problem" based on the percentage of the population it happens to. I think the severity of the problem needs to come in to play as well. I would say that complete engine failure is a pretty serious problem. Also, who's to say how many people are having this problem? Not every person with this issue is going to come on to a message board and complain about it. Since I have no way to take a census of every S owner, I am merely going by the percentage of the people here that are having this issue.

Once again, please don't take this is an attack or even an argument. I am just very dissapointed that I did not know about this ahead of time.
My 1996 landcruiser just turned 220,000 miles without even 1 major repair. Will I be able to say the same about my Mini 13 years from now?

 

I don't know about 13 years, but I will be driving mine for as long as possible. These are cars to enjoy, not worry about. If you have a problem, then tell your MINI dealer. If they can't fix it, at least be sure they put the problem into your car's service record, for future evidence if the problem worsens. My experience has been that MINI/BMW stand by their warranty. They have treated me right.

Don't focus on what may happen. Focus on what a hoot it is to drive, and take care of a problem if it develops

 

My 09 MCSa with a late sept 08 build date has had the Cold Start Rattle twice, both times nose pointed slightly down, first time (2400 miles) much louder than second time (3500 miles). Noted both times to my dealer.

But am I worried? Nah, I have 3 years 7 months left on the warranty, and the car's been flawless otherwise. Wish I couldve said that about my 2005 S.

SO just get out there and enjoy yr car! No use sweating something that may not happen to you. If it does, pm me and I'll give U a mitigation technique an SAE engineer clued me in on that seems to work for my car (both times it did it, I did not do my mitigation technique) and other cars with low miles. Does not seem to work with 07s and 08s with lots of miles tho.

you can start by not parking nose down if possible, esp if U let the engine go cold (6+ hours).

In an otherwise noisy DI engine, you will know the sound. it's a loud, metal-on-metal syncopated bangbangbang that sounds like it's in the glovebox, and it'll last about 20-30 seconds. Car will idle smooth otherwise, with no CEL lights or codes thrown. Dont drive until it's gone.

Oh and folks in warm climes like FL, AZ and TX have reported the issue as well, so it's not strictly cold weather.

NOW GO ENJOY YR. RIDE!!

 

I'm not sure parking angle has anything to do with it either, the few times my car has done it it's been parked nose uphill........also it did it on a 60* day too, but with a cold engine. I think the start, drive short distance (like back it out of the garage into the drive) park and restart much later scenario is more accurate - but I've had it happen after just my normal parking routine too.

Anywho, like you all have said, they'll get it figured out, in the meantime I'm just gonna drive my car, use it and enjoy it........

Keep this number, this is the PUMA directive number for the latest "fix" where they replace the chain, sprockets, Vanos, tensioner and so on......

Puma number 10686850-13

 

Thanks Dave, I will definitely hold on to that # (just in case). Hopefully I won't ever need it.

 

Welcome to the club. I have the exact same build date as you do. I've had the rattle happen about 3 times in my 5000 miles of ownership. The first time it happened at around 32 degrees and the other two around 45 degrees (F). It goes away within' a minute. I'm a **** about taking care of my car and have done the 2 break-in oil changes and always check my oil level on a regular basis.

I'm not too worried about it now, but with the new news that BMW has an even newer fix I might have to do it before winter kicks back in here in Michigan.

Other than that... ENJOY YOUR CAR AND DON'T LET IT BRING YOUR SPIRITS DOWN!

 

Shane, try my rattle mitigation technique to see if it helps for you:

whenever you think yr car will be parked nose down and/or for any length of time that would allow the engine to go dead-cold (6+ hours, like at work or at home) follow these steps: at power down for the night, or at work, and while parked, slowly rev the engine to 2500-3K, hold, and hit the stop button. The SAE engineer that suggested this claims this way oil is delivered under pressure by VANOs to the hydraulic valve lash adjusters (HLAs), with enough delivered to allow the oil to remain within the HLAs and not drain out, thus not allowing air into them at power-up (before VANOs sends the oil to the HLAs). he thinks poorly designed and built HLAs that drain oil (copuled with VANOs) are the culprits here, because the loud banging sound is excessive valve lash that only goes away when more oil is delivered to the HLAs as the engine heats up (thus expanding the metals to proper operating tolerances.)

IOW, by doing this y're sending more oil under pressure to the HLAs, thereby mitigating the rattle's severity. Ive done this since my first rattle, and even when the car has sat in sub-freezing temps for days undriven, when I get in and start it I hear no noise--as long as I revved it to 3K then hit the stop button before it sits for 6+ hours. Oh and if y're worried that doing this might harm the engine, both of my SAs said no problems should manifest from this procedure.

Keep us posted and let me know if it works for you, because it is working for me and few others I know with 09 builds.

 

People think it's cold weather related, but it's not. It's cold engine related.

And parking nose up or down seems to aggravate it; my dealer said they can reproduce the noise by letting the car sit overnight, nose down.

Altho I did not count this occurence, out of curiosity I reproduced it in my car by starting it, backing it out, and shutting it off in less than a minute, then starting it and putting it back in my garage w/o letting it get a chance to warm up. I did NOT do the 3K-power down mitigation measure, and sure enough the next AM it rattled and rattled loud, sounded like a toy snowblower in me glove box.

 

Wow, I didn't think it was lifters making the noise, I thought it was the chain/tensioner............

 

A SAE engineer whose company in MI designed and built the valve train assemblies for Chrysler's Tritec engine (used in the 1st gen MINIs) theorized that aereated (meaning air displacing oil, causing them to become pnuematic as opposed to hydraulic) lash adjusters could be one culprit out of many--tensioners, chain, sprockets, vacuum pump (whose failure results in catastrophic engine failure) VANOs, etc.

Its a mess, but those of us that have 09s are lucky that we have some time here while BMW sorts this out. They can start by listening to that SAE engineer, whose theories are plausible. In the meantime, I just enjoy my car w/o getting arrested

 

i'm feel compelled to add my voice to what i would guess is the silent majority of folks who have heard about the cold start problem:

my MCS was built in the end of november 2008. i haven't had the cold start issue and no one else i know in our local MINI motoring club has, either. it's nothing i spend time worrying about. *shrug*

you know, you hear a lot about swine flu lately. how many people actually have swine flu, though? 2600 cases in 44 states with three deaths--that's it. guess what? i don't worry about the swine flu, either.

can't let unreasonable fear for something you can't control rule your life. just manage the risks you can, and move on.

 

They have the fix for it now

http://www.motoringfile.com/2009/05/...d-start-issue/

 

That's the same fix I noted the PUMA number for above, looks like that'll do the trick - if you can get your dealer to do it. I guess a few folks are having trouble getting their dealer to do it if they don't hear the noise in person. My dealer indicated they'd do it whenever MINI came up with a fix. I'm heading out on vacay tomorrow, but I'm off the whole week after I come back, maybe I'll see if they'll do it then.

 

well, if history is any indicator here our 09s are bound to get bad enough over time and mileage to where the dealer will have have no problem hearing that nasty noise.

I learned this from my 2005 S: let it get bad enough to where there's zero doubt as to the existence of a problem (in this case, a dash rattle that took 4 days to fix). Then the SA's are very attentive.

and to the poster who cant get a loaner: can the dealer get U a rental on their dime? Jeez Id go to another dealer if I could.

 

Oops - we've been posting the wrong repair reference. PuMA refers to an individual car's engineering tracking file for a specific issue. The correct BMW reference for the timing chain rattle problem is SIM-11-02-07.

 

Yes if you read that SIM-1102-07 it basically says if your car is made after november 2008 it does not apply to you so my dealer says. there is a build date lock out in that order