Hello all, New guy here and am enjoying reading these forums. I have yet another clutch question... seems to be a lot of them around here! but none I've found are the same as what happened to me...

I have an 03 base Mini with just under 116K on it. Surprisingly have had virtually no troubles short of an O2 sensor... until recently when all "h-e-double hockey sticks" broke lose..

The shifter lever on this car has always been a little sloppy, and pretty much the last 2 years I've owned it sometimes it seemed to get stuck when trying to move the lever into reverse position. let off the clutch a tiny bit and it would pop right into place. not sure if that is all related, but thought it might be worth mentioning..

Anyway, so the last week or so I noticed that when taking off from 1st there would be a little shutter. It only lasted a brief second, but it was certainly a new shutter. No real strange noises, smells or anything, just the shutter. This lasted about 3 days then just last Wednesday it did the same thing but there was an almost like metal on metal noise accompanying it, faint, but there.

Started home with fingers crossed. At the last stop sign before my driveway (about a mile from my driveway) I took off and felt the clutch pedal give out. It was in first and still driving but lost pretty much all pressure in the pedal. The shift lever would move positions but didn't seem to want to come out of first gear no matter where the lever was. I limped it the rest of the way home, turned into the driveway, let off the gas... clang clang metal noise, stalled... I haven't tried to start it since and the clutch pedal more or less is just limp. It pops back up when pushed down but there is virtually no pressure in the pedal.

My thinking is that it's the clutch that finally decided to take a dirt nap? Is there anything else I should try first before buying a clutch kit and tearing it apart? Could there be more to the problem? It just seems to me that if the clutch was on it's way out it would have given me more than a couple days warning...?

I fully intend on doing any work myself... being in Michigan these days means I'm generally broke. Not a total stranger to the tool box and not afraid to turn some bolts. The way I figure it, it's already broken so short of learning a few things, what can I really do to it! I'm thankful that Mini had the thoughtfulness to at least make it into the driveway!

Thanks for any advise, guidance, suggestions, horror stories, random strings of profanity, or whatever else you have to offer

 

Do you own the Bentley manual? I havent researched what is involved in replacing the clutch but it would not be simple or quick. You might want to buy or borrow the Bentley manual to see some details about the process to help you decide if you really want to tackle the job.

 

No I don't own a manual but have been looking at getting one. I have done quite a bit or research and do realize that it wouldn't be quick, or easy... at this point I don't have a whole lot of choice as I don't have even close to the cash it will cost to have someone else fix, but I do have patience and time It's either going to be a very cool Mini shaped lawn ornament that's costing me a monthly payment, or I can do my best to do something about it..

I did a minute ago try and get it into neutral to see if it made a ruckus when started... no go :( I pull hard enough on the lever that I feel like I'm going to break something but it doesn't wanna budge. Any thoughts about any of it?

 

Ok, so I still can't get the dang car out of 1st gear. There is absolutely no pressure on the clutch pedal. The brake pedal is hard as a rock?
I did turn the key just to see what would happen and the car lurched forward like it should.. no strange noises or anything, just a lurch forward like I suspected it would. So obviously it's still in gear. There's no fluid leaks that I can see and the fluid appears to be full.

No I don't know much about clutches and this might be a stupid question but if the actual clutch is what's going on here wouldn't there still be pressure in the pedal? Could my problem possibly be more with the clutch cylinders not doing what they are supposed to be doing?

I've never had a car that wasn't a manual in the 18 years I've been driving cars and have never burnt out a clutch so the feeling of "slippage" would be foreign to me. Is clutch slippage what that shudder feeling was?

Thank to anyone who can offer help or advise... sometimes I wish I still had my 71 beetle, but that would be way to easy wouldn't it..

 

I'm not a MINI mechanic, but if the clutch PEDAL moves freely and has no resistance, I'd suspect the clutch hydraulic master cylinder or its linkage might be the culprit, not the clutch itself. Wish I could be more specific, but that's where I'd begin my investigation. As far as getting the car out of gear, I bet if you could rock it back and forth by having some friends push on it while you applied some pressure on the shifter, it would pop right out of gear. Can't do that if there's any load on the tranny. Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

Hey thanks for the suggestion R56 - the rocking a little worked like a charm, didn't even need a friend. So it popped out of gear and I started her up. There's certainly something going on and am back to thinking it could be more of an actual clutch issue :( although I'm trying my hardest to blame it on something else!

There's a constant noise like metal spinning against metal. still no pressure on the pedal but when pushed in the noise gets just a wee bit louder.. If it was just one of the cylinders failing does it make sense that that the clutch could be partially engaged and that's the metal spinning noise? Like the cylinder piston is stuck halfway or something?

hmm, this could be fun (probably not, just trying to make myself feel a little better about it).

 

Another possible culprit would be the throw-out bearing... the gizmo that takes the load when the clutch pedal is depressed (and the clutch is disengaged). Lots of folks burn these up prematurely by keeping the clutch pedal depressed for long periods of time, instead of just a quick dip and shift. These can make a grating sound, too.

I can't find it now, but somewhere there is a pretty long thread on the dual mass flywheel/clutch problem... rattling, other unhappy noises. So many opportunities for fun, so little fundage... Good Luck!

 

Your continued noise could be the clutch dragging on the flywheel. The flywheel will continually spin while the engine is running. One option is for you to take the car in to a shop and pay for it to be diagnosed. Generally you would pay for a half hour to an hour of labor but at least you would have a much better idea of what needed to be done.

 

Replaced the master and slave cylinder thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea regardless and there's for sure more to the problem.

So now I'm knee deep in a clutch replacement! Have the subframe out and hopefully will get the transmission out in the next week or so - don't have a lot of time in one big lump, so doing it little by little. No real problems so far short of one sheered steering knuckle pinch bolt and two broken socket ratchets.

Anyway, I'm curious what your recomendations for a clutch kit/flywheel would be? I don't have a lot of money and certainly am not a race car driver. Would love to do some pricey upgrades, but really just can't. I just want the car to move again. Any suggestions for a fella on a budget? (03 base)

Also I'm to the point where I need to support the engine here pretty quick. The Bentley manual is calling for a couple of special BMW tools.. An engine bridge thing, and a support bracket thing ($$$). I would think a floor jack and a cherry picker would perform the same task? Isn't it really just to keep the engine from hitting the floor and to move it vertically a tiny bit? Would I be a total mad man if I tried the cherry picker/jack?

Thanks for any advise, I sort of feel like a rock star even getting this far with it

 

not sure if anyone cares, but drum roll please... the culprit!
Totally fried release bearing...



and a few other pics.. the things you can do with one guy, one floor jack, one month, and a Bentley manual.. hopefully I can get it all back together :/





Any advice on things I should look at while in there?

 

Congrats!
Make sure to get all three: Clutch, Pressure plate, and thowout bearing.

OEM stuff is expensive, many opt for an aftermarket replacement upgrade, and get a lighter flywheel and still save $$. There are several threads on replacement options, check them out.

Great progress on getting it under it's own power again.

 

Remove the pressure plate and have a look at the clutch disc, if it’s not down to the rivets or the grooves between the segments, there’s no need to replace it. If it needs replacing, have the flywheel turned before reassembling. If you haven’t replaced the lower control arm bushings, now is the time to do it.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I appreciate any help I can get. I did order a Valeo clutch kit (plate, disc, bearing, alignment tool) the other day and got a pretty good deal I think - $155 including shipping. figure while I'm in there I may as well replace the whole thing.

Regarding the flywheel K-huevo, I was under the impression that a dual mass flywheel can't be turned, that it needs to be replaced? If the clutch disc is being replaced is it absolutely necessary that the flywheel be replaced (or turned)? Or is that only the case if the flywheel is damaged?

The Bentley manual says to apply a thin coat of Unirex S2 lube to the throwout bearing... any idea where I can get that stuff or what a suitable equivalent would be? The people at two auto parts stores have never heard of it and had no idea what else could be used. and how about the dang torx bolts holding on the clutch plate... what size are those things?!? I was using a 5.5mm socket that worked well on all but one and then the socket stripped out (thank god it wasn't the bolt). If I'm going to pick up another socket I should probably get the correct one...

again, thanks for the suggestions and help, I am looking into the control arm bushings!

 

A couple of months ago I talked to the specialty clutch shop that I have been using since I was a pup about resurfacing a MINI DM flywheel. They told me no problem, they do it all the time. I haven't given them one to resurface, but I surly do trust their word.

If that clutch disk is original, and after all the work involved in opening it up and considering the cost of new disk, replacing it is to me an obvious no brainer. Make the whole thing as good as you possibly can, you don't to go back in there anytime soon, hopefully never.

YD

 

I may be wrong, but I thought only Mini S's have dual mass flywheels base Mini's had a regular flywheel

 

One recent poster discovered that the bushings on the shaft that includes the fork that operates the thrown out bearing had seized and had to be replaced. In any event, be sure to replace the guide sleeve along which the throw out bearing slides.

 

Teacoach, turns out the base has a DM flywheel too... at least that's what it looks like to me, but even looking at it I could be wrong..



I talked to a dude at a transmission shop today who seemed to know what he was talking about (?) not hesitating for even a second he said that they would never recondition a Mini DM flywheel. According to him even taking off a tiny tiny bit would upset the balance and throw off the springs that are in there or something like that. He said some might do it, but in the "short run" they'll wish they hadn't.. All in all it looks like the flywheel is in good condition and that same fella seemed to think if it was still smooth, not warped or cracked he would think there wouldn't be to much of a problem just running with it (budget being a concern).

The disc seems to be in pretty good shape too considering the 116K it's been through. not down to rivets on either sides and still a little meat in the grooves. That is still being replaced.



So it seems like the bearing was the only real problem. amazing that that little plastic and metal piece can screw your world up this bad :/

 

Is that what a dual mass looks like, ive never really seen either. My info came from other threads on here

see post #13
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-flywheel.html

 

Anyone out there have a clutch alignment tool I can borrow/rent/buy?

Everything with the clutch kit is a perfect match, except the damn alignment tool seems wrong?!? Maybe I'm wrong, but logic tells me it should go through the fingers of the plate and then through the center of the disc... centering the assembly. The fat end of the tool doesn't fit through the fingers or even come close to touching the disc.

 

3 months later Mini sees daylight!



Have driven 20ish miles so far and she's shifting like butter... so far so good Is there any "break-in" advice I should be following when it comes to a new clutch?

So, to anyone who has never taken on this task and doesn't know much about cars but is thinking about trying it... It CAN be done with one person, one floor jack, and zero special tools - but it sucks. I'm hoping to never have to do this again..

Thank you to those who helped along the way...

 

The photos above are of a sprung hub clutch and conventional flywheel. A dual mass flywheel has an elastomer component that absorbs lash, and does not require springs on the clutch disc (as shown above).

 

Yes, your clutch kit should have come with some info on that procedure, otherwise the MINI manual also has some info. But basically it amounts to going real easy on it and not using engine braking for 500 miles or so.

 

a dual mass flywheel is there to decrease NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) felt at the shifter and in the car.
Clutch disc springs dampen gear engagement.
Standard Mini's also have a DMF.

Nice work on the clutch job!