Burned clutch after one year???
#26
07-13-2009, 08:48 AM
From what Ive seen in my area many owners who once thought their mini was "cute" dont actually know how to drive. I see a guy leaving my place of work every few weeks who loves to ride his mini's clutch all the way up a 1/4 mile incline with an ear to ear grin.
That being said; I once upon a time 'traded' a 2006 VM Jetta for having dual mass flywheel problems (They shattered) and the LuK clutch disk getting burned at 10k miles... and I've been driving standards for 14 years with only two long-lived clutch replacements.
That being said; I once upon a time 'traded' a 2006 VM Jetta for having dual mass flywheel problems (They shattered) and the LuK clutch disk getting burned at 10k miles... and I've been driving standards for 14 years with only two long-lived clutch replacements.
Last edited by unclemeat; 07-13-2009 at 09:48 AM.
#27
07-13-2009, 09:00 AM
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There have been a lot of premature clutch failure cases reported here, but I think it's a little overblown. While others say the plastic t/o bearings will fail if you ride the clutch, etc, my observations are that it's really no less reliable than most other clutches currently being made.
I have numerous friends that have really bad clutch habits including a couple R53 S owners who ride the clutch nearly 100% of the time. One of them is over 65k miles on his daily driver and his clutch is still original. Another has an '04 GTI 1.8 turbo with 90k and he warms up the car in gear and rides it literally all the time. Of course, I'm just reporting my limited observations but they can't be that bad...
I have numerous friends that have really bad clutch habits including a couple R53 S owners who ride the clutch nearly 100% of the time. One of them is over 65k miles on his daily driver and his clutch is still original. Another has an '04 GTI 1.8 turbo with 90k and he warms up the car in gear and rides it literally all the time. Of course, I'm just reporting my limited observations but they can't be that bad...
#28
07-13-2009, 09:13 AM
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#29
07-13-2009, 11:47 AM
BTW,
Anyone here having troubles with delayed opening of the sun/moon roof? Mine now often jerks and hesitates before opening. The main computer system has already had to be replaced (the dealer did do this one no charge).
I'm beginning to think my car could be a lemon.
Anyone here having troubles with delayed opening of the sun/moon roof? Mine now often jerks and hesitates before opening. The main computer system has already had to be replaced (the dealer did do this one no charge).
I'm beginning to think my car could be a lemon.
HappyHeartMom, i am sure that doe not make you happy as you are the one with the problem but in terms of failure rate it is very very low.
I would as others have said, tell the dealer they need to fis it under warranty and get the car back to you. Only use the ammunition (printed threads) you have as a last resort, if you bring that in and throw it in their face it will be even harder to convince them to fix it at no cost to you. It is the courteous person/customer that gets what they want, not the one that shoves stuff in their face saying "It a problem" when in reality it is it is not a large major scale problem. If it was such a large problem then there would have been a recall.
#30
07-13-2009, 12:55 PM
If your clutch failed due to no fault of yours, it should be apparent when they tear it down, and you should not have to pay for it. If they find nothing but a burned up disc and no other faults, I think it would be logical and fair to assume you or another driver in your family did it. Parts can and do fail on every car out there, regardless of make model color or creed - that's why you have a warranty. It does not mean the car is a load of crap or a lemon, any more than it means that mine is somehow magical because it hasn't failed in the same ways.
They are machines, and as such subject to physical laws. If made improperly so that something fails, it should be evident, and the mfr will stand behind it. Just as it's usually evident when it fails due to abuse.........
Absent the opportunity to look tho, I don't think it's reasonable to assume it's the car's fault anymore than it's yours. Take it apart, then you'll probably know.........
#31
07-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Only use the ammunition (printed threads) you have as a last resort, if you bring that in and throw it in their face it will be even harder to convince them to fix it at no cost to you. It is the courteous person/customer that gets what they want, not the one that shoves stuff in their face saying "It a problem" when in reality it is it is not a large major scale problem.
When you first approach them, be firm and assertive, but polite and courteous at the same time--hopefully, they'll be more inclined to help you, and if it turns out that the wear was some fault of your own, they might be willing to give you a bit of a break (our dealer's done "good will" repairs for us before--small things, but it adds up). If that doesn't work, I'd try another area dealer, and if that doesn't work, I'd give MINI USA a call, express your disappointment (without yelling at them--again, it's not the fault of the person on the phone, and if you're courteous to them they'll be more inclined to help you), and see if they can set some gears in motion (often they can--they do have some clout with dealers, especially with disappointed customers).
If that doesn't work? Then pull out the stops. Print forum threads. Go to the local media, raise your voice and be persistent.
#32
07-13-2009, 08:33 PM
am i nuts or isn't the clutch under the 3 year 36k miles? i am purchasing the extended service and they said clutch was covered under service...i guess unless the determine it's "abused"
that said i asked about going through brakes fast and they said the mini's especially s models are known to be driven hard and thus, that it taken into consideration. i said, so if i fly through brakes or whatever it's ok. they said likely, unless it's abuse.
that said i asked about going through brakes fast and they said the mini's especially s models are known to be driven hard and thus, that it taken into consideration. i said, so if i fly through brakes or whatever it's ok. they said likely, unless it's abuse.
#33
07-14-2009, 02:28 PM
the clutch is covered if it fails due to manufactory fault. They do not covered usage or abused clutches. This is standard on all cars. The RSX forums used to be rampant with this sort of stuff one guy burned out a whole OEM disk in 10 drag runs. I can say however that acura takes care of there customers better as a whole i never once had to threaten a lawyer to get a lemon part fixed. With mini have had to pull out all the stops just to keep the car running.
#34
07-15-2009, 09:29 PM
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#36
07-16-2009, 12:22 PM
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What it boils down to is that you have to consider driving a MINI different from any other car you've owned.
I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about Honda's, but I've had/have 3 and all of them were manual transmission. I replaced the clutch on my first Honda at 170,000 miles based more on worry than on performance. I got to 275,000 on the 2nd clutch which was still trouble free when I sold it. My 2nd Accord has 140,000 miles and is still driving great. My Element has 45000 miles with no troubles. I drive/drove the clutch the same on all three. All had/have a 50/50 mix of city/Highway driving.
If I'm at a light or drive-thru which will be awhile, I will let off the clutch and leave it in neutral. If it's only going to be 10-15 seconds, the clutch is engaged while I wait for my turn. I would think that the throuwout bearing would have more problems by someone pressing and depressing it 3 or 4 times creeping forward at a 15 second light or stop sign vs. someone who keeps the clutch engaged the entire time
With the MINI, I've been more aware and cautious based on what has been posted on here. Still, I know how I drive and I baby that car. I'm a smooth shifter at approx. 3000 RPMs.
To avoid problems with the throwout bearing, just let off the clutch at long stops. Otherwise, a sensible driver would NORMALLY (not always) have a typical clutch life.
I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about Honda's, but I've had/have 3 and all of them were manual transmission. I replaced the clutch on my first Honda at 170,000 miles based more on worry than on performance. I got to 275,000 on the 2nd clutch which was still trouble free when I sold it. My 2nd Accord has 140,000 miles and is still driving great. My Element has 45000 miles with no troubles. I drive/drove the clutch the same on all three. All had/have a 50/50 mix of city/Highway driving.
If I'm at a light or drive-thru which will be awhile, I will let off the clutch and leave it in neutral. If it's only going to be 10-15 seconds, the clutch is engaged while I wait for my turn. I would think that the throuwout bearing would have more problems by someone pressing and depressing it 3 or 4 times creeping forward at a 15 second light or stop sign vs. someone who keeps the clutch engaged the entire time
With the MINI, I've been more aware and cautious based on what has been posted on here. Still, I know how I drive and I baby that car. I'm a smooth shifter at approx. 3000 RPMs.
To avoid problems with the throwout bearing, just let off the clutch at long stops. Otherwise, a sensible driver would NORMALLY (not always) have a typical clutch life.
#37
07-16-2009, 10:27 PM
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No not really. Just discussed it reading others tales of woe. It is in now for a module that controls the left map light. But has been in now for 5 days this time and they still cant get it to turn off. So far the solution is to pull the bulb. Battery died on day two. Wiper stalk died in the second week. Reminds me of my days with MG's and Lucas Electric " the Prince of Darkness. "
#38
07-21-2009, 03:04 PM
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#39
07-21-2009, 03:10 PM
your dealer is correct and incorrect. They must prove that the failure was from use if your wanting to file it under warranty. If you had a giant puff of black smoke and boom the cluck was dead that does not sound like wear to me. I mean wear normally start to show slower and more naturally like a smell a engage point moving a slipping are all key signs your clutch is hurting due to wear. There is always the violent explosion that happens at the drag strip but if your in-line at Mc Donalds that is far from full torque high heat multiply times. I fail to see this as a use issue. I have recently decided that mini is the worst company to deal with. I have had my issues with them and i keep reading here how they are treating others and it makes me go that when i can i will sell my car and get something else. When I have future issues which i am sure that i will, I fear that i will have step it up further than i should have to.
#40
07-24-2009, 03:50 PM
I went through this same problem several months ago. the dealer claimed it was my fault and that it'd be $3000 to fix. I balked, and they came back and said they'd reduce it to $1800. I balked again and ultimately had the clutch replaced for free at 7,000 miles. Just keep fighting.
I don't know how you drive, but I drove my car fast. That being said, I rev-match downshifts. I don't launch the car, I don't ride the clutch, etc.... but you know what? That's besides the point. All I know is that a clutch shouldnt be trashed in 7,000 miles. I don't care what you argue. I've mis-shifted and launched my brother's STI several times. 55000 miles, original clutch. Don't say that the mini is a higher performance vehicle because it's not. Especially on the track. My buddy's S2000.... same thing... better built cars have reputations for a reason... heck, Porsche 997s are a step above the minis, are driven hard at the track, and yet lack the transmission issues that the mini's have (althought they have other issues). just keep arguing with the dealer, and open a claim with miniUSA.
If these clutches are REALLY that sensitive and subject to burn out... than every manual trans mini should be sold with a mandatory drivers training course... i know people who have learned to drive stick in their cars, and still have originally clutches w/ >50k miles... including a BMW 330 w/ 120K miles on the clock w/ original clutch...
I don't know how you drive, but I drove my car fast. That being said, I rev-match downshifts. I don't launch the car, I don't ride the clutch, etc.... but you know what? That's besides the point. All I know is that a clutch shouldnt be trashed in 7,000 miles. I don't care what you argue. I've mis-shifted and launched my brother's STI several times. 55000 miles, original clutch. Don't say that the mini is a higher performance vehicle because it's not. Especially on the track. My buddy's S2000.... same thing... better built cars have reputations for a reason... heck, Porsche 997s are a step above the minis, are driven hard at the track, and yet lack the transmission issues that the mini's have (althought they have other issues). just keep arguing with the dealer, and open a claim with miniUSA.
If these clutches are REALLY that sensitive and subject to burn out... than every manual trans mini should be sold with a mandatory drivers training course... i know people who have learned to drive stick in their cars, and still have originally clutches w/ >50k miles... including a BMW 330 w/ 120K miles on the clock w/ original clutch...
#41
07-24-2009, 04:22 PM
I think that was my point, either she did something wrong, or the clutch is bad, either way the only way to know is to take it apart..............and likewise the only way to fix it is to take it apart - either way it has to come apart.
Speculating and blaming here on NAM isn't going to fix it............
Speculating and blaming here on NAM isn't going to fix it............
#42
07-27-2009, 05:47 AM
According to Consumer Reports, the 2008 MINI Cooper S rates average for minor transmission problems and well above average for major problems. I don't know if the clutch rates as minor or major, but at the least it would rate average compared to other cars for reliability, if not well above average. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that you didn't get a bad clutch, it just means that typically MINIs are no better or worse than your average car.
I am concerned about the statement that you were depressing the clutch while idling. The clutch should only be depressed when changing gears. The transmission should be in neutral at idle. The statement that this would not wear the clutch prematurely is false. Consider that changing a gear takes 1 second. That's one second of wear for each gear change for the life of the transmission. Now consider that you are sitting at a light for 30 seconds, holding the clutch in the whole time. This could be the equivalent of 30 gear changes. I'm no expert, but I would think that would significantly decrease the life of the throw-out bearing and, as that wears, the life of the clutch. That is what I recall being told, and why I was taught to drive a stick the way I do.
I would still argue for the dealer to replace the clutch under warrantee, just consider the possibility that your driving habits MAY have had something to do with premature failure of the clutch and consult an expert on how to drive a manual vehicle, if only to save yourself possible aggravation in the future.
Good luck!
I am concerned about the statement that you were depressing the clutch while idling. The clutch should only be depressed when changing gears. The transmission should be in neutral at idle. The statement that this would not wear the clutch prematurely is false. Consider that changing a gear takes 1 second. That's one second of wear for each gear change for the life of the transmission. Now consider that you are sitting at a light for 30 seconds, holding the clutch in the whole time. This could be the equivalent of 30 gear changes. I'm no expert, but I would think that would significantly decrease the life of the throw-out bearing and, as that wears, the life of the clutch. That is what I recall being told, and why I was taught to drive a stick the way I do.
I would still argue for the dealer to replace the clutch under warrantee, just consider the possibility that your driving habits MAY have had something to do with premature failure of the clutch and consult an expert on how to drive a manual vehicle, if only to save yourself possible aggravation in the future.
Good luck!
I am not making this up. Some city governments are hardly better than anarchies.
#43
07-27-2009, 08:20 AM
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#44
07-27-2009, 10:26 AM
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I have a 2008 mini cooper s and I mentioned a slight howl downshifting to 2nd gear at my first service. They replaced the clutch at NO charge. They claimed the got a "bullentin" from mini regarding the clutch. Unless you smoked it, you shouldn't have to pay for it. Just my 2 cents worth.....
#45
07-27-2009, 11:04 AM
Like countless others have said, most likely operator error. Sitting at a dead stop with your foot slammed on the clutch for long periods of time is a great recipe to wear out your throwout bearing. Live and learn.
Don't think that switch to automatic next time is the answer. Sure, they have problems too, but the biggest issue is that you deduct 50 points from the fun factor of your R56
Don't think that switch to automatic next time is the answer. Sure, they have problems too, but the biggest issue is that you deduct 50 points from the fun factor of your R56
#46
07-27-2009, 12:59 PM
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+1. I live and work in areas with horrible traffic where the lights with the most traffic usually let only a few cars go before changing again. Also working here in LA, there's bumper to bumper traffic going uphill to get to the freeway. On bad days, I've spent 15 minutes going only a 1/4 mile. It's not like the traffic moves fast enough to creep in gear and you can't stop and have large gaps to reduce clutch wear since you'd just get cut off and **** off people behind you. I guess we'll see how my clutch holds up in the long run, but I can't say I'm especially worried about it.
Well, as the OP stated in the response, you DO have to go to first and "slip" the clutch a bit to creep the car forwards at stop lights when the traffic is bunching up. In my book, that's not misusing the clutch. There's no other way to do it. It still worries me because my town has the world's worst traffic lights. They create traffic jams 500 feet long when the cross street has only one car crossing the intersection. I am not making this up. Some city governments are hardly better than anarchies.
I am not making this up. Some city governments are hardly better than anarchies.
#47
07-27-2009, 01:56 PM
I have 30 G on the odometer. I never do burnouts, however I constantly drive the crap out of my car. Its American spec and routinely runs the German Autobahn, Nurbuirg ring, hockenheim and the like. I prefer to down shift instead of use the brakes and My clutch has began making an occasional chatter, squeal/grown noise. My warrranty here in Europe is only 2 years which is already up. This car, as much as I love it is leaving the family here in 2 weeks. I have had SO MANY things fixed on this car, you name any MINI gremlin and I have had it. I dont really care as it was all warrantied, but this clutch thing is SCARY. simply check the repair costs.
Needless to say, My X5 35 D arrives in 2 weeks just in time for mein und mein Frau's birthdays.
For such a expensive car, these MINIs have a fair share of problems. Im sure Ill buy another, Ill just sell it before warranty expires.
Needless to say, My X5 35 D arrives in 2 weeks just in time for mein und mein Frau's birthdays.
For such a expensive car, these MINIs have a fair share of problems. Im sure Ill buy another, Ill just sell it before warranty expires.
#48
07-28-2009, 01:55 PM
if the throw out bearing can not handeling being depressed it is of sub par quality. I love how people defend mini for sub par goods, i have a theory we are all afraid to admit we have one and are scared it will fail as well. I think the OP had some mechanical issue of unknown cause. I do think these cars have week clutches but then i sit here and think about it and i realize that so did my last car.
#49
07-29-2009, 07:54 PM
Burned Clutch after 4 mos!
You make a pretty bold statement. What you are saying is, if the fault isn't obvious, then it's driver error. My clutch burned out after 2700 miles in a brand new R57 Cabrio. MINI comes to the same conclusion you do.....a burned up disk by itself is driver error.....but all that tells me is the top 5-10 "normal" problems weren't found, so they feel it must be me. I don't ride the clutch. Period. I didn't race it, drive it abusively, etc. I'm not saying MINI should believe me without question, but they should look harder for problems.
No doubt when you take something apart you can learn something, but "lack of proof" is not proof.
#50
08-01-2009, 04:52 AM
Failed Clutch R57 2700 Miles
Well I'm several days into pursuing this (failed clutch at 2700 miles) with MINI and MINI USA. Here's my biggest rub (pun intended) - when, after they tell me it's my fault, that I abused the clutch somehow, they have not gone back and taken a second look at anything. And the area "rep" that makes the call (that we can't talk to) has not taken a second look.
I've asked for a written diagnosis, detailing each clutch component they examined, and a written description of what they saw on each component, as well as all the parts back.
When I called MINI USA, it was hard to get them to even start a case! What gives with that? I guess since it was in the system already from the dealer, they just wanted to say sorry, problem already diagnosed, your fault, sorry, no recourse! You shouldn't have to almost scream at someone to get them to start a case!
Clutch manufacturers sure have a sweet "non" guarantee. I know that parts fail, and very often you can't find the reason - but they have a built-in out of user abuse to cover themselves - which just plain stinks. I know I didn't ride the clutch, I know that I didn't abuse it.
The biggest crime here is that two weeks ago I was a walking talking MINI commercial.
I've asked for a written diagnosis, detailing each clutch component they examined, and a written description of what they saw on each component, as well as all the parts back.
When I called MINI USA, it was hard to get them to even start a case! What gives with that? I guess since it was in the system already from the dealer, they just wanted to say sorry, problem already diagnosed, your fault, sorry, no recourse! You shouldn't have to almost scream at someone to get them to start a case!
Clutch manufacturers sure have a sweet "non" guarantee. I know that parts fail, and very often you can't find the reason - but they have a built-in out of user abuse to cover themselves - which just plain stinks. I know I didn't ride the clutch, I know that I didn't abuse it.
The biggest crime here is that two weeks ago I was a walking talking MINI commercial.