Honestly it sounds to me that something had to be wrong 2700 miles of even a new driver not saying you are should not fail worn yes fail no. I almost wonder if when the pedal was up and the car would be in motion of
the mass wheel and clutch had enough give it was rubbing. I would want al of that measured verified and photgraphed. I smell something fishy in anburned disk with so little use

Think about it this way 2700 miles
how many are highway no clutch use
how many are city clutch use

 

Oh Sunnygirl! I'm so sorry for you also. 2700 miles...Please keep us posted on how this is resolved, ours is not resolved yet. I have it from a mini mechanic that some of the newer mini s clutches have to be replaced at 45000 miles...! I do not want other people to have to go through what we have gone through. it's important to get the word out there so peple will have a chance to think twice before purchasing one. Any gas mileage saved is put into repairs. I appreciate everyone's comments here. Thanks all. To be continued...

 

rsunnygirl, I'm sorry to hear of your problems. In fact, I've read this thread with intense curiosity. I guess I've learned something since in 35 years of driving, I've never heard of having to take the car out of gear and let out the clutch at stop lights. I've had several vehicles in that time and never burned a clutch out--never had a clutch issue at all.

But your summary of your situation, your interaction with MINI, and your quote above is what cheezes me off about MINI. Though I haven't had the experience personally, many people seem to encounter a brick wall when trying to get fair resolution from MINI on some things that are commonly reported here on NAM.

There we are, the 'walking commercials' who drank the kool-aid, hook, line, and sinker. Then the company who makes the product that we're selling for them seems to leave so many out to dry. I'm not naive enough to believe 'the customer's always right', but how about a fair shake?

MINI's purported path to 'resolution' just doesn't mesh with with all the cool commercials and 'youification' rhetoric. I feel for you and everyone else trying to hash these issues out with MINI.

 

Others have told me the same thing, Marshall07 and I had actually looked in the drivers manual to see if there were special instructions. In my younger days, I drove a 911 Targa Porsche across country once and owned an XKE Jag (Traded for a new Honda Civic and a Volkswagen Van for a new life up north) but cannot seem to correctly drive a 2008 Mini Cooper S...?

 

Ya know, that reminds me. Before I took delivery of the MINI I had read about clutch issues. Before I literally took delivery (signed papers), I took the car out with my MA for a test drive. I specifically asked him whether there was anything about my driving / shifting that I should be aware of that could be an issue. He said it all seemed fine to him. He didn't mention anything about needing to be extra hyper sensitive to clutch issues, or having to let it out while waiting at stoplights. Just one data point, but still...

HappyHeartMom, I feel bad for you too! I hope ultimately MINI does right by you--at a minimum is fair and responsive. Keep us posted.

 

Thank you for the kind words, tedswoods, I hope threads like this help other people. The Internet can be a great resource which most of us might not have had or used extensively even five years ago. And I hope Sunnygirl keeps us posted.

 

My "other" vehicle is a 1986 Toyota PU with 347,000 miles on the clock, and I, like you, have NEVER taken it out of gear and let out the clutch at stop lights. Never. The factory clutch was replaced at 160,000 miles--was not quite worn out but I had it replaced the same time they had to take apart half the engine for a blown head gasket and rear seal leak--and Im still on its replacement with an estimated 30-40K miles left to where it will need replacement. Of course then Toyota/Lexus/Scion doesnt use LuK components, they use Aisin.

So I have a hard time subscribing to the theory that leaving the car in gear w/the clutch depressed at lights is one wear-out factor. Seems more like a lame excuse by MINI SA's to dodge a needed warranty repair, and worse yet, to try and pin this on an unsuspecting customer who knows how to drive a manual. HHM and sunnygirl Im sorry y're having such a difficult time here.

Im driving a 2009 Clubman S loaner right now, and the clutch is making all kinds of odd noises and slipping--at only 5500 miles. WTF is going on here? I want my trusty and dependable automatic MCS back. At least I can deal with and work around its minor little quirks, like the upshift lags.

 

My clutch was fried at 7,800 miles. Before I could get off the road I could smell the bad boy...real bad. But living in Pittsburgh presents its own problems. Everything is either UP or DOWN the hill. In this case, I was coming down the BIG hill, no pull-offs, go thru the tunnel into the city, and accross the bridge before I could get off the road.
2 lane road, bout 4 miles long. Felt like the clutch was stuck pushed against the flywheel? 1st time had happened, kinda scarey, cause car only 6 months old.

Anyways, MOP looked at the car after it was towed there the next morning. I waited bout 2 hours, and the nice SA told me the bill was going to be about $4800 with labor. Needed new trans, clutch, pressure plate, the whole deal!

SA said he contacted MINI USA and they authorized him to do a "one-time" courtesy replacement. Also I had to take my MA out with me on a test run after the work was completed. My MA being a track driver/instuctor for MINI, he was to help be brush up on my "shifting skills".

I really dont like my dealer so much, but the service guys are great to deal with, they even replaced a leaky thermostat at the same time that I had failed to notice!

So maybe I am the one good story out of all the bad. One last thing. I had a really hard time re-learning how to drive it using the new clutch, it felt like pushing a feather, and still does. I bought my MINI sight unseen, and had never driven a MINI before, but had driven standards for about 20 years no problems.

 

Branto-
did MA teach you anything new? I am worried that my dad taught me wrong all those years ago and the cars i have driven since then might have been flukes of nature, because the only replaced clutches that were within the expected time periods.

 

talked to a sa at the mini dealership said they won't warranty clutch failures on cars under 30,000 miles

 

You would have to do a lot to a clutch to fry it in such a short period of time. My Vette has just under 100k miles on it and it has been road tracked, drag raced and generally beat on over the years and still has the original clutch. If you do have to pay for the replacement go aftermarket and do not go with the Luk crap.

Also I have seen some pics on here of heat cracked flywheels and the SA telling the owner that is evidence of abuse. That is BS. A pressure plate can slip slightly and cause excessive heat before it is outwardly obvious that the unit is failing. Plus if there is ANY foreign material on the disc such as oil or hyd. fluid it will be ruined. So just because the flywheel is blued and cracked does not automatically indicate abuse.

Consider taking the clutch disc to a lab and see if they can analyze it. See if there was evidence of a lubricant on it. If there was that was your issue.

 

I will do that....hey I know that no clutch maker is perfect, but I'm still just plain mad that burnt-up plates = driver error in their minds, pretty much no exceptions, unless they can see the oil or failed throwout bearing, etc. I'm an engineer and I know every problem has a cause, I'm not stupid enough to believe that lack of evidence is the same thing as evidence. Why do I have the burden of proof??????

 

No, he didnt teach me anything new at all! He actully demonstrated some driving that I would never have tried on my car! He thought there had to have been some problem as problems like this just dont go that bad that quickly. Plus MINI just doenst give the OK that quickly to fix a problem unless it was somehow flawed.

He did say that there is no problem with sitting at a light without being in gear....I have always done this, just using the clutch when shifting, not sitting.

 

I've had my MC since early May 09. It's new and already have >8K miles - it's my daily driver with >50mi round trip to work. I live between Seattle and Tacoma = LOTS of hills. No problems yet....if there was something wrong with my driving seems I would have seen it by now. It's a 6spd manual. There are lights, 15 degree hills, freeway, city and gravel roads on my daily ride. Yours has GOT to have something faulty with the clutch.
I might start a little "Christmas club/Clutch account" at my credit union just for any problems. Who has this much money easily available?

 

this is my dealer's philosophy, and they dont even have to get corporate approval. at least the first time, always give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

 

Is that Niello?

anyway that is total, complete BS. The clutch and DMF are covered against defects in manufacturing under the bumper-to-bumper 4 yr 50K warranty. So if the cheap plastic T/O bearing siezes or the DMF warps or the master cylinder fails at 10,000 miles, they wont replace it under warranty?

I, for one, would 1) raise Holy Hell, and 2) find another, less ****-ish dealer.

 

I agree bumper to bumper covers the clutch and all parts against defect. I think they are just using what could be a wear part as a reason not to give spend the money to fix the problems. This is just poor customer service. There are going to be people who track or race there car who burn up there clutch quickly, however the benefit of doubt should exist.

 

Well it looks like MINI USA is going to cover this 100% after all - guess they wanted to let us stew for awhile so we'd feel grateful or something.....

It is a relief. My guess is that this is still a "courtesy" replacement, and not a warranty repair.

So the truth is I am grateful and still a little mad and worried (about having the problem again) at the same time.

But in the end, MINI and MINI USA did the right thing this time, so I'm eager to put this in the rearview mirror and get back to having fun driving around town in my MINI. It should be ready by the end of the day tomorrow.

sunnygirl

 

Great to hear that they are going to fix it!

I do understand how you feel about the worrying, too.
Once you your car back up from the dealer, make sure you give it a new "break-in" period.

Still to this day I sometimes think about the shifting and "do I feel that, or am i just worrying", but not too much.

When I do go into the dealer for service, I always ask the retired guy who picks up my car to see if he notices anything. Also I have the dealer check for me.

I know I am goofy, but this is my 1st new car (2nd car I have owned), and I just turned 40!

Go enjoy your ride!

 

sunnygirl Im glad to see it was resolved the right way!

 

Sunnygirl,
Glad for you they are replacing your clutch at no cost to you. When did they tell you they would do this, before or after they took it apart?

 

Every problem may have a cause, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will ever find it. Cars can be that way. I have worked on enough to know that in some instances the best you can do is make an educated guess and go with it.

If you have ever seen a totally destroyed clutch disk, pressure plate and flywheel, you would understand why it might be hard to diagnose. The dealer is just covering its *** because 9 times out of 10, a destroyed clutch at less than 3,000 miles is probably gonna be a case of driver error.



That said, my silver car got 45,000 miles of the most wicked abuse I have ever given a car. Rolling burnouts, clutch dumps from 7 grand on slicks, power shifting, the works. I really didn't even need to replace it, either. It still had a considerable amount of material left, and the pressure plate and flywheel only had a little heat checking.

 

The short "whole" story: After they took it apart, they saw a burnt up pressure plate and no other obvious problems. They got approval for the tear down because of a noise, they did not expect to find a burnt up pressure plate. They told me it would NOT be covered under warranty, and while they would not directly say I abused it, they said it was not covered, and that failures like this were usually the result of abuse. I contacted MINI-USA and was able (eventually) to get them to start a case. I was finally told the case had been "elevated" and that MINI would cover this as a one-time courtesy (not a warranty repair). I should be able to pick up my MINI tomorrow, and they do want to take me out for a drive - I'm guessing they want to see my shifting techniques, and give pointers if required - that I understand, they want to protect their investment too.

sunnygirl

 

I've been following this and glad to see MINI finally got this resolved for you!

 

Hey I'm glad MINI finally did the right thing, but after all the research I've done on this problem, I'm beginning to think that your quote is a myth perpetrated by the clutch manufacturers. Basically they have little or no way of knowing if most early premature failures (say less than 10,000 miles) are due to driver error or not.

What we do know, is that they won't accept them for warranty if only the pressure plate is burnt up.

LuKs own "diagnosis" pdf (an interesting read for those with clutch problems) find it here:

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi...ose_pkw_en.pdf

says slip can be caused by "Friction values of the mating friction surfaces too low, dimensions of the mating friction surfaces not OK, contact force of the clutch assembly too low. Or too little or no lift-off of the clutch assembly."

The dimensions and the contact force could be the result of problems with the SAC mechanisms, not driver error.

Even when the facing is worn down to the rivets, LuK says the causes could be "Vehicle being driven despite slipping clutch, Incorrect driven(sic) practice, Allowing the clutch to slip for too long, Incorrect clutch assembly, Faulty release mechanism."

The last two reasons are NOT driver error, and not necessarily easy to find.

So what do we know? Some clutches fail early. Some drivers are bad. Some clutches are bad. Without a detailed scientific study, I'm not about to put percentages on any of these. And if the clutch manufacturers have done those studies, they sure keep them secret. Data from the "field" is tainted by the warranty (or lack or warranty).

sunnygirl