I have a 2008 Mini Cooper S with c. 15,000 miles. Last week while waiting in line at a drive-up window I smelled something burning. Upon opening my hood I saw smoke coming from from below near the driver's side wheelwell. I had it towed to the dealer, Rasmussen in PDX. They called today to tell me they thought it was a burned clutch but would need to tear it down to confirm this. They claimed that the warranty doesn't cover a clutch unless something internal caused the malfunction. They also stated that it might have been my fault ("user error") but must be examined to determine this, at a cost of $700 if not covered under warranty. Needless to say, I am displeased.

Have any of you had a clutch problem? Have any of you had a problem with warranty coverage? They are quoting a price of about $2,500 for a one-year old car that has been treasured and never abused. I am middle-class and middle-aged and don't race the car or unduly stress the clutch in any way. It is inconceivable to me that a clutch would burn up at 15,000 miles while sitting at idle with the clutch pedal depressed.

Thanks for any feedback any of you can provide.

 

I'm not saying you do it ...

A driver of a manual transmission car that slips the clutch (for example to hold on a grade), rather than using the brakes, can easily wear out the clutch prematurely.
The MINI clutch is thinner than some cars, so perhaps more prone to such driving.


Of course if you don't treat the clutch that way, you'd still have to convince the dealership that you don't. And if you did treat the clutch that way, then you'd want to learn not to do it any more.

 

"The MINI clutch is thinner than some cars, so perhaps more prone to such driving.


Hi-
Do you have more information on Mini's "thinner clutch"

This is so obviously poor quality clutch apparatus. Most of us have driven sticks for years and have never had such problems at this low mileage.

 

Sorry to hear about your clutch problems. I don't know about MINI clutches being "thinner", but they've been a known problem with the first generation MINIs ('01 - '06) finally acknowledged by MINI as well as the second generation MINIs (2007 and newer). 15,000 miles is way too soon for a normally driven car to burn up a clutch; try to persuade your dealer to do the right thing and repair it as they should.

 

You were waiting in the drivethru line?

Was it slightly inclined?

Stating that you were sitting at idle with the clutch pedal depressed sounds very much like inappropriate use (ie: driver error).

Shift into neutral and use the emergency brake if on a slight incline. Saves your clutch and it's much more comfortable.

Good luck!

 

I don't know the full facts here, but sitting on a hill with the foot brake engaged and the clutch pedal fully depressed should in no way harm the clutch. How do you arrive at the conclusion that sitting with a depressed clutch pedal is driver error, unless the clutch was depressed only partially.

There's the key. Was the OP riding the clutch? If not, OP didn't burn up the clutch in this particular incident.

 

Keeping the clutch disengaged wears the throwout bearing. This bearing is intended for intermittent use, not continuous use. It's a bad habit to do what the OP did and if done too much could cause the bearing to fail prematurely.

 

She was sitting in the drive thru lane with the clutch depressed and started seeing smoke coming out from the wheelwell - so either she was slipping the clutch, or the hydraulics were failing allowing it to partially engage, however, I think if the latter were the case she would be experiencing poor shifting, especially into reverse.

I'll bet they find a burned up disc and nothing else wrong to cause the problem.........and I've never heard that the MINI has a "thinner" clutch, and I doubt it's true. I mean, thinner than what? And what's thinner, the disc? Press plate? Not buying it............

 

I understand that depressing the clutch works the throwout bearing, but I don't buy that it is designed so that this will cause it to fail after 15k. Maybe after 150k. I've been driving manuals for 40 years, generally haven't used neutral at stop lights and have never had a clutch burn up. Not even in my 67 Plymouth Valiant with the bench seat and goose neck shift lever.

Gravity is less on the observation deck of the Empire State Building because your mass is farther from the earth, but it really doesn't make a difference, either.

 

OP if I were U Id protest loud, but with courtesy, to the dealer. The clutches and dual mass flywheels on these cars are made by a BMW subcontractor named LuK, and their reliability and QC record is very spotty at best--I went thru two defective LuK clutches/dmfs on my 2005 S in 25K miles before I got disgusted and traded it in. But then my dealer didnt try to pin the blame on me, they just replaced everything under warranty, twice, NQA.

If Rasmussen balks, do an end-around to MINI USA and complain loudly--but with courtesy. More and more dealers are trying to pin the blame for clutch problems on customers, stonewalling them into guilt-trips that it was their fault. if U cant get MINI USA to intervene to get this replaced as a warranty issue, maybe they can get the dealer to reduce the repair costs--say U pay for the clutch components, and they cover the rest. Last resort: insist to MINI-USA to have it towed on BMW's dime to NW MINI in Tacoma for a 2nd opinion.

Good luck, but then I say this to everyone who owns a manual MINI, for the LuK clutches--and their equally crappy plastic throwout bearings--are the weak links in the manual drivetrain. Many of us who had 1st gen MINIs with these problems opted for the automatic in our 2nd gen cars, and we couldnt be happier.

PS there's a thread somewhere here about how MCS clutches are "thinner" to reduce weight, like the clutches in Porsches and Audis, and tend to wear out faster if allowed to slip.

 

I appreciate all comments here, thank you very much.

I'm finding through other blogs it is not an isolated problem and will do more research.

My experience in the past led me to choose a manual car for its durability. I'm hesitant to keep this car even after repairs and will consider selling it.

Does anyone know where could I get a copy of the clutch/flywheel reliability and Q/C record? Does the 2008 Mini S use the same clutch? Plastic throwout bearings, really?

I worry the clutch would be replaced by the same faulty components. Is there an up-grade available?

 

According to Consumer Reports, the 2008 MINI Cooper S rates average for minor transmission problems and well above average for major problems. I don't know if the clutch rates as minor or major, but at the least it would rate average compared to other cars for reliability, if not well above average. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that you didn't get a bad clutch, it just means that typically MINIs are no better or worse than your average car.

I am concerned about the statement that you were depressing the clutch while idling. The clutch should only be depressed when changing gears. The transmission should be in neutral at idle. The statement that this would not wear the clutch prematurely is false. Consider that changing a gear takes 1 second. That's one second of wear for each gear change for the life of the transmission. Now consider that you are sitting at a light for 30 seconds, holding the clutch in the whole time. This could be the equivalent of 30 gear changes. I'm no expert, but I would think that would significantly decrease the life of the throw-out bearing and, as that wears, the life of the clutch. That is what I recall being told, and why I was taught to drive a stick the way I do.

I would still argue for the dealer to replace the clutch under warrantee, just consider the possibility that your driving habits MAY have had something to do with premature failure of the clutch and consult an expert on how to drive a manual vehicle, if only to save yourself possible aggravation in the future.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the important info russgriz

Well, I had to shift it from neutral into first to inch my way up the line. There was no noticeable incline. It was very very hot and the air conditioning was on and at first we thought it was something electrical. I have never had problems like this driving a manual shift.

Big sigh...

 

I support russgriz ... definitely fight for warranty replacement; collect some prints of other threads where people have had premature clutch failure and had it replaced under warranty - use this printed info as ammunition.

And then, with a lovely new clutch, be aware of babying it - the e-brake is your friend

 

There indeed was a person with a similar clutch problem who started a thread here (I don't remember what year his car was, 07 maybe). He had the same story, burned clutch, dealer claimed it must have been abused. They took it apart and "lost" a key part. I think it was the throwout bearing. He got a lawyer buddy to help. I don't remember how it came out. Sometimes when it gets to the lawyer stage the OP quits posting in the thread, but try a search and see. I'd say it was 6-8 months ago. IMO the dealer should just shut up and fix it. They cannot prove you abused the car and the burden of proof is on them. That's a bunch of crap. They can claim anything they want if the burden of proof is on you. They can say you drove it low on oil, you overrevved it, you ruined the tranny by downshifting at high speeds, you abused the brakes, yadda yadda. Just tell 'em the truth and demand they fix that stupid car.

 

Yah GO BigNewt U tell 'em Power to the people!

OP yes all the clutch components are the same from gen 1 to gen 2. flywheel glazing is another big problem, but the gen 2 cars have more torque to where the driver can usually de-glaze the F/W on his/her own. Research "Chewbacca Noise" for that one.

Here's a good example of spotty: my friend had her 05 MCS built the same week as mine; they were "boat buddies." She just turned 100k miles a week ago or so with the original clutch and f/w--although she's been thru 3 master cylinders. but all those were replaced under warranty by Snotsdale MINI NQA.

My Toy-Lex mechanic hates LuK components. He just bought his wife a used 2007 M3 and the first thing he did was swap out all crap LuK I think with Clutchmasters. people that track or autoX their S's and JCWs on a regular basis usually dump the Luk for something a little less persnickety and more durable.

As a gesture of good customer service Rasmussen should acknowledge this repair under warranty NQA, quit the investigative crap, fix the car, and deliver it with a smile. But I dont know why they're playing hardball. I expect this from hard-nosed dealers back east, but not Rasmussen.

 

You're the man sequence but some of your statements are just plain hyperbole with no basis in reality, IMHO.

I can count on my hand the number of posters who take up this banner with you about switching to autos because of this issue. Unless you have further evidence other than 4-5 posters and your mechanic agreeing with you I'll assume the majority of MINIs produced with manual transmissions are just fine.

 

Hi--

Cheers for the Internet!

I have managed to find an extensive collection of posts from various forums and threads on the clutch situation - enough to give anyone second thoughts on purchasing a mini. More than enough, I think, to make a case for dealership replacement. I have lost total trust in the company and do not trust the durability of any eventual replacement. Unless I can get some kind of upgraded product, I will seriously consider selling my 2008 before the same or different problem occurs again and do what I can to inform others, especially potential purchasers of Minis.

 

I think anyone who's as easily swayed by what they read on the internet as you seem to be probably should sell their MINI, as soon as you can. Buy a Honda.......

 

Just curious then. What would you have her do?

 

Drew Drew Drew. Always reading between the lines, and interpreting statements out of context. There are plenty of folks on this forum--not this thread FCOL--and many I know that are NOT NAM members who switched to autos because of the problems they had with their clutches--not their transmissions.

 

But wait, according to Drew the Expert, there's nothing but sunshine, lollipops and rainbows in manual MINI land... perhaps he should consult you about the basics of researching a well-documented problem.

 

Apparently to you transmission choice is inherently based on whether or not you think the clutch is crappy or not, but thanks for the repeated clarification on clutch vs. transmission. I didn't start the fire, but anyway...

As for transmission choice, let's just say all this "evidence" is about as far from statistically sound and about as empirical as you can get. There are some bad clutch/flywheel setups out there, without question, including possibly the OPs, but again I don't necessarily think jumping on the Aisin bandwagon is necessarily the answer for everyone, nor do I think automatically blaming the parts and not the driver is applicable in every case.

If you believe everyone on the Internet at face value then you're really fooling yourself. Meanwhile, X's clutch burnt out at 10k miles because unknowingly X's son was riding the clutch, burnouts, etc. whenever he went out with his buddies on the weekends.

Now this apparently isn't the OP's case but you never know until you have the full story.

Always a pleasure, sequence, always a pleasure.

 

Exactly........

I sometimes wonder if these threads are started just to see how much ***** they can stir up.........

There are really only a couple of answers here, either someone burned the clutch up or it failed on it's own. If the former, the OP should pay for it to be replaced and either learn how to drive or find out who's been riding her clutch. If the latter then warranty should cover it and it should be evident......

But to assume because of random postings on the net that there is an inherent failure of a clutch that's already successfully done millions of miles in millions of other cars just sounds to me like the typical attitude of Americans today - something happened to me - it's someone else's fault - and someone else is going to pay, not me!

 

Let's hold off on criticisms of Minis for now, looks like MINIDave is trying to sell one.