Ran out of gas...again
#51
I disagree. I've owned many cars in the past and never is it normal for the car to completely run out of gas when the gauge is showing you have gas left.
when the gas gauge shows you have gas remaining IT MEANS YOU HAVE GAS REMAINING! Its not that hard of a concept to understand. That is what the gas gauge is made for. This isn't a 15 year old car where the gauge might be a little off. Cars nowadays have accurate gauges that are reliable, and are not supposed to leave you guessing.
In fact most cars are supposed to drive about 30 miles or so after the refill warning light appears. This is the way they are supposed to be programed so situations like this are easily avoided. If all Mini Coopers were stalling when it was showing three ticks left, we'd sure be seeing a lot of Minis on the road with no gas.
when the gas gauge shows you have gas remaining IT MEANS YOU HAVE GAS REMAINING! Its not that hard of a concept to understand. That is what the gas gauge is made for. This isn't a 15 year old car where the gauge might be a little off. Cars nowadays have accurate gauges that are reliable, and are not supposed to leave you guessing.
In fact most cars are supposed to drive about 30 miles or so after the refill warning light appears. This is the way they are supposed to be programed so situations like this are easily avoided. If all Mini Coopers were stalling when it was showing three ticks left, we'd sure be seeing a lot of Minis on the road with no gas.
I don't know why MINI builds them this way, but how much intelligence does it take to adapt to the reality of the situation.
I think the chances of MINI starting a recall on this are pretty slim. They haven't even called for a recall on the cold-start timing chain tensioner problem, or vacuum pump issue, yet.
#52
If these cars are mass produced than how come my 07 gauge was more accurate? 2 ticks left and i would go get gas and put in about 12 gallons. On the 09 and i am out of gas way before that. My commute hasn't changed that much...if anything it is more highway w/ cruise control on.
#53
Mine is the same, 2 ticks left w/ 75 to 80 miles left.
Last edited by hotcornernoprob; 08-28-2009 at 08:30 AM.
#54
Have you heard about engines being blueprinted for racing? This means they go over all the critical parts in an engine and make sure they are as close to the ideal (blueprint) specs as possible. The result is usually a significant improvement in performance. However, engine tolerances have probably gotten much tighter in recent years, so this may be an outdated process. It seems that gas gauge tolerances have not improved much.
#55
The pump might be provided by multiple suppliers, calibrated slightly differently. An eight of an inch variation in the height of the float can easily mean a gallon or two difference in the measurement.
The fuel tank (plastic, right?) could be slightly malformed and a hair high at the top ... leading to the some issue as above.
A different thickness locking ring that holds the pump in would do this too.
(Last year I replaced the fuel pump in my old Saturn. The low fuel light went from indicating when I had about 2 gallons left to just half a gallon left. Yes, I learned that the hard way... by running out unexpectedly, 60mi shy of when I should have based on what the fuel gauge read!)
#56
Looking at your MINI fuel gauge as a 'Clock-Face' ; 12 O'Clock = ½ Tank and 9 O'Clock = ¼ Tank (from 12 O'Clock down to 6 O'Clock each "Candy-Corn" = about one gallon).
The 'Scan-Gauge' (link in my sig) has a "fill-Up" mode than can be calibrated at fill and give accurate constant information on fuel remaining.
Aircraft fueling is further complicated by the fact of needing to consider the weight of the fuel in your trip calculation. You rarely fill the tanks, but assure that you must remain within weight limitations while having enough fuel to arrive at your destination with a minimum (never less than :30 minutes and often :45 to 2 hours, depending on expected weather and distance to alternate airports.
Aircraft fuel gauges are only required to be accurate at full and empty, when mine (and 225 others of the 235 of that model built) show 800#, there are only 600# actual fuel on board. You never believe the fuel gauge, except when it shows less than it should be at that moment of the flight.
The 'Scan-Gauge' (link in my sig) has a "fill-Up" mode than can be calibrated at fill and give accurate constant information on fuel remaining.
Aircraft fueling is further complicated by the fact of needing to consider the weight of the fuel in your trip calculation. You rarely fill the tanks, but assure that you must remain within weight limitations while having enough fuel to arrive at your destination with a minimum (never less than :30 minutes and often :45 to 2 hours, depending on expected weather and distance to alternate airports.
Aircraft fuel gauges are only required to be accurate at full and empty, when mine (and 225 others of the 235 of that model built) show 800#, there are only 600# actual fuel on board. You never believe the fuel gauge, except when it shows less than it should be at that moment of the flight.
#57
Some have wildly inaccurate fuel gauges and accept it as "normal".
Others (myself included) actually have reasonably accurate fuel gauges. Consider from our viewpoint -- we will naturally think something is wrong with yours if it is so far off.
My gauge is not linear and goes down faster (but not rapidly so) after the halfway mark. The manual says when it gets down to one tick and turns red, there are approximately 2 gallons left. If I fill up at that point, it seems about right. There is no way I'll make a habit of filling up at half tank. The fill-ups are too frequent and the range is too low.
Others (myself included) actually have reasonably accurate fuel gauges. Consider from our viewpoint -- we will naturally think something is wrong with yours if it is so far off.
My gauge is not linear and goes down faster (but not rapidly so) after the halfway mark. The manual says when it gets down to one tick and turns red, there are approximately 2 gallons left. If I fill up at that point, it seems about right. There is no way I'll make a habit of filling up at half tank. The fill-ups are too frequent and the range is too low.
#58
So far from the reading I have done plus the comments, it looks like when you hit 2 bars thats like other cars gas light coming on. I don't know if it is like this in other cars but mine the bell chimes everytime it starts up the bell chimes, the car will continue to notify you by the fact that it shows you on the tach cpu. I understand you had 3 bars when you started up and ran out of gas about 5 miles later. Does that mean it is out of whack maybe, maybe not. You could have been at the bottom of the 3rd bar. Non-the-less the second it hit the 2 bar I would have not got on the highway. I would have looked for a gas station just to be safe(unless it was a bad neighborhood or something). In future cases I would be looking for a gas station at the 4 bar and no less then the 3 bar. There really is no need to wait any longer than that. Also it might have been a freak thing it might have been the fact that you were in traffic, maybe running the a/c, hell you might have been thinking it was Ralley at Monte Carlo, the thing is you ran out of gas which sucks but, it is a lesson learned. We can go to the ends of the earth debating whats wrong but the simple thing is that nothing could be wrong. Well I am done with my soap box I will sit back and just read on to see where it goes.
#59
I think I would say that some of us accept that nothing is going to change it.
How many candy corns are dark when a fill up would take 7-8 gallons?
My 2007 manual says:
When they say "indicator lamps" I take it to mean there could be more than one lit when it is down to the reserve.
How long does it take you to put 200 miles on your car? The average driver would take about a week (10,000 miles per year). For someone who drives more, I can see where they would want to extend the interval.
I can think of several reasons for filling up when you are 7-8 gal. down, rather than 11-12.
1. If gas is going up in price, as it usually is, you spend more $$ on gas by waiting longer to fill up. The longer it takes you to put miles on the car, the more pronounced this would be.
2. You always have a safety range for situations where it becomes inconvenient or impossible to get gas.
3. Less chance of doing expensive damage to the car.
Others (myself included) actually have reasonably accurate fuel gauges. Consider from our viewpoint -- we will naturally think something is wrong with yours if it is so far off.
My gauge is not linear and goes down faster (but not rapidly so) after the halfway mark.
My gauge is not linear and goes down faster (but not rapidly so) after the halfway mark.
The manual says when it gets down to one tick and turns red, there are approximately 2 gallons left.
Once the fuel level has fallen to the reserve zone
of approx. 2.1 US gallons/8 liters, the remaining
indicator lamps change from orange to red,
arrow. The tachometer displays the remaining
cruising range. An indicator lamp comes on if
the remaining range is less than approx.
30 miles/50 km.
of approx. 2.1 US gallons/8 liters, the remaining
indicator lamps change from orange to red,
arrow. The tachometer displays the remaining
cruising range. An indicator lamp comes on if
the remaining range is less than approx.
30 miles/50 km.
If I fill up at that point, it seems about right. There is no way I'll make a habit of filling up at half tank. The fill-ups are too frequent and the range is too low.
I can think of several reasons for filling up when you are 7-8 gal. down, rather than 11-12.
1. If gas is going up in price, as it usually is, you spend more $$ on gas by waiting longer to fill up. The longer it takes you to put miles on the car, the more pronounced this would be.
2. You always have a safety range for situations where it becomes inconvenient or impossible to get gas.
3. Less chance of doing expensive damage to the car.
#60
The once constant between my 07 and my 09 is that one take of gas would equal 400 miles. Sure enough my trip odometer was at 405 last night when i emptied out. But i don't think i should have to be using the trip odometer to know when i am out of gas. the gas meter should be somewhat accurate. 3 ticks should get me 30 to 40 miles.
#61
I've had two R56 MCs, now. Both have gotten about 35-37mpg. I fill up when the last two petals turn red. Average about 12-13 gallons per fill. Maybe 420-450 miles +/-.
That is pretty acceptable calibration. And, it's been the same with both cars. Lose the first petal around 115 miles +/- a bit.
I think it's reasonable for the OP to expect reliable indications like this.
Sure, once you know your gage is off, there is no excuse for running out, but there is also no reason not to get it checked.
That is pretty acceptable calibration. And, it's been the same with both cars. Lose the first petal around 115 miles +/- a bit.
I think it's reasonable for the OP to expect reliable indications like this.
Sure, once you know your gage is off, there is no excuse for running out, but there is also no reason not to get it checked.
#62
#64
After over 80k of frequently running it to --(no lights at all) and have never run out of gas or had any pump failure I have total faith in my OBC. Now that's with total fill-ups and filling a few gallons here and there. I've even pulled the tank and filters and found over 2 liters left at -- with no dirt or debris at the bottom of the tank. I have ALWAYS dropped the first candycorn at 90-95 miles with 74 miles left when the last two light in red.
#65
exactly... I don't understand the logic of the people that are blaming this on user error and not a defect on the car
#66
The user error is not learning from the first time he ran out of gas. Pushing it to the edge when it had been unreliable before--that is user error.
#67
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As it says in the manual, the only calibration the computer does is with the last 18 miles driven. We are not dealing with artificial intelligence. Human intelligence is still required.
The user error is not learning from the first time he ran out of gas. Pushing it to the edge when it had been unreliable before--that is user error.
The user error is not learning from the first time he ran out of gas. Pushing it to the edge when it had been unreliable before--that is user error.
I could not have put it any better!!!
#68
As it says in the manual, the only calibration the computer does is with the last 18 miles driven. We are not dealing with artificial intelligence. Human intelligence is still required.
The user error is not learning from the first time he ran out of gas. Pushing it to the edge when it had been unreliable before--that is user error.
The user error is not learning from the first time he ran out of gas. Pushing it to the edge when it had been unreliable before--that is user error.
Yes, you are right in one thing... if he knows thats when it tank is empty, he should refill it... but that doesn't fix the problem with the car.
No matter what the owner manual says (you are treating it as if its the bible) your car should not completely run out of gas if this is what it is showing you:
#69
#70
i've driven my car to zero petals before
the Trip counter showed --- instead of a number
and it still drove fine... (i was $hitting myself tho)
when I fill it to the brim from that point it gives me about 52-53 liters of gas..
and I get 600 and change km's out the tank with mixed driving and alot of stop and go..
I have also driven my E39 M5 to the point of --- on the trip meter and still didnt face any problems
my vote goes for his gauge being innacurate...
if anything logical dictates BMW would put a Buffer in to the OBC to prevent such occurances..
the Trip counter showed --- instead of a number
and it still drove fine... (i was $hitting myself tho)
when I fill it to the brim from that point it gives me about 52-53 liters of gas..
and I get 600 and change km's out the tank with mixed driving and alot of stop and go..
I have also driven my E39 M5 to the point of --- on the trip meter and still didnt face any problems
my vote goes for his gauge being innacurate...
if anything logical dictates BMW would put a Buffer in to the OBC to prevent such occurances..
#71
Car is fixed. dealer found that both fuel level sensors (left and right) were sending bad data. Car was reporting 1/2 tank and actual was 1/4 tank! Replaced both sensors and sent me on my way.
Another bonus i got a brand new dark silver cooper S convertible to drive around today and the weather was wonderful.
Another bonus i got a brand new dark silver cooper S convertible to drive around today and the weather was wonderful.
#74
#75
Wow, well don't I feel like an *** now! Will/Flyinace2000, I owe you an apology.
I was wrong, made erroneous assumptions, and did not give the benefit of assuming you knew what you were doing. I'm sorry, and I'll try not to repeat that mistake.
I'm glad you found the real problem -- and didn't listen to people like me! -- and that it is resolved now!
I was wrong, made erroneous assumptions, and did not give the benefit of assuming you knew what you were doing. I'm sorry, and I'll try not to repeat that mistake.
I'm glad you found the real problem -- and didn't listen to people like me! -- and that it is resolved now!