Comparing the Cayman to a MINI is moot. The Cayman holds 2 gallons of oil. Just sayin..

 

When I made the post here and the post on my site I was prepared for the flaming. I am not blaming Mini for anything other than denying that there is a possibilty that the car may not have harned me the way it was supposed to do. Hopefully bringing this situation to light may prevent some other person from having something similar happen to them.
The truth is the lack of oil changes was against my better judgement, yet I relied on what the Adviser had said about the Yellow Service indicator coming on. As I had said in my post the long service intervals was not my normal way of doing things.
And yes, my bicycles are well maintained, my Suzuki GFS1200S is, and the 2001 GMC Sierra with 273,000 miles is also well maintained.

 

Dude sorry for your troubles - but you should have known better period. It is inconceivable that you would think that any car would not need at least a minimal amount of maintenance in its first 20K. Given that its my hard earned money invested in a vehicle there is no way I am going to trust an "idiot" light or just my service advisors word.

Since the cost to you was zero for service this makes it even worse. Blaming someone else when you are totally at fault is one of the sad conditions of our modern society. We see it all the time in sports figures (Michael Vick, Tiger Woods, Mark McGuire, etc) We see it all the time with politicians (list too long to even fathom)

Blaming someone else is easy, it takes real character to take personal responsibility.

 

BS...Dude, we read your post and your website. You acknowledge fault but then rant on about how a manufactuer is responsible for this happening. Your position is tantamount to expecting mcdonalds to tell you your coffee is hot or expecting a warning label on a screw driver telling you not to jam it in a light socket....bottom line is that if you were taking the blame for this you would have nothing to say and your shame would be your silence. But you ARE blaming MINI.....In fact you somehow are blaming all german manufactures at one point.....c'mon man

Look, I am with you that going 2k over the service interval is not supposed to blow up an engine.....But because it is OBVIOUS that there was neglect involved there is no possible way the dealer or anyone else can say that this failure was certainly material defect. Whether it was or wasn't can not be established because there was gross negligence here. To remove all doubt, all that was required was a FREE visit to the dealer ONCE A YEAR for a oil change. That is in the manual that you probably didn't read. You dont need a light or a service interval indicator......you need an 8th grade reading level to know to get the oil changed once a year.....If you had held up your end of the bargain we would not be having this discussion.

 

MINI is the one who's put a calculator in the car that prompts for service. Mini is the one that claims that it's calculation of over 20k miles for a service is accurate and defensible. Mini also has date indicators for service intervals in the new cars, and choose not to program in an "If it's been a year, raise a flag". Mini also says the system will notify you of a need for service. Mini is also the one that says that service is free. Mini is the one that created a system that should indicate service requriments, and as all of us who blow off it's guidance to perform preventitive maintenance more often, we choose to see it for the BS it is.

Now to this specific case. On a 21k calculated service interval, they are claiming that a 2.6 k overrun grenaded the engine. That's a bit over 10%. I can't beleive that anyone with a brain would use a calculation that was that tight on tolerance. Many times when you call up for a service appointment, you say "I'm 300 miles from a requested service. Can I bring the car in?" and get the answer "We can schedule your appointment for a week from Tuesday" or some such crap. So now, what is one to do? Not drive the car? As someone who has designed and built lots of stuff in my life, I'd say that one EXPECTS not every event to happen at a planned date, and to be a bit conservative in the warnings etc.

Also, MINI is saying that the additional sludge in about a 10%-15% overrun on the service interval resulted in the destruction of the timing gear that caused consiquential damage. From the owners description of the car behaviour, it also seemed to have suffered from cold start chatter, that is KNOWN to have contributed significantly to broken timing gears and the like. How does MINI know that this didn't contribute to the failure? Seems like it's realated at best and causal at worst. And MINI is the very same company that said "It's normal", "It doesn't hurt anything" blah blah blah and yet has replaced entire engines over it.

To me, this reeks of using an excuse to dodge what should be a warranty issue. And the fact that there are all these related issues that could have contributed, to not even say "You're past the warning. This contributed to the fault. But you also had other issues. Let's split the cost." is totally inexcusable. They've done good will items for many others in the past, and to not even try to meet the owner here half way is just dumb.

And let's not all pretend that we don't know or have direct experience of BS coming from MINI or dealerships when issues have come up.

There is blame here to go around to all involved. And some of that lands on MINIs lap. And they aren't stepping up to share. We all know that the parts costs quoted make profit for MINI, so even if they discounted the parts and labor they could offer quite a price break before actually losing any money on the deal. And they won't even do that.

Matt

 

Id hafta dis-agree with you on that one... The mini's motor is HIGHLY STRESSED... think about it... you own a JCW, 200+HP from a 1.6 liter through forced induction. forced induction=more heat, more possibilities of destruction, a tuned mini is even worse... A cayman has what a flat 6, 265-295 hp engine? 3.2L? I dont remember off the top of my head but I believe thats what it is. But then again it has high compression pistons... Still my vote goes for more stressed placed on a JCW mini than a cayman.

 

Dr Obnsx - "There is blame here to go around to all involved."

Sorry this is the typical response for not wanting to take responsibility for your own actions. Lets try to spread the blame around to make myself feel better, lets just say we are all at fault and make everyone pay for one persons negligence.


This is at the root of the litigious society we now live in and now we all have to pay for. Only companies, be they pharmaceutical, insurance or car companies have "BS" attitudes not the poor consumer or individual. Well those organizations are made up of individuals who can tell when they are given BS and a crap its not my fault attitude.

In all of my years of dealing with organizations as a customer and as the face of an organization to a customer an honest truthful approach solves most issues to both parties liking. There are always a few people and organizations that are not willing to standup and do the right thing and or take responsibility, alway trying to get others to take some if not all of the blame and responsibility for their actions.

It is clear in this situation who the later is. Read the complete rant it is peppered with this kind of twisted logic and its not me its the "Germans" no its "MINI with a complete lack of dealer support" (come on give us people with a brain a break - talk about a huge delusional racist brush stroke)

Here is all the evidence you need from his post:

"Don’t buy German vehicles: The Volkswagen Jetta’s build quality was equivalent of an old Ford Escort and it was backed by Checkered Flag’s service. Now the Mini Cooper with it’s complete lack of dealer support after the sale and even larger lack of manufacturer support and assistance."

 

I know its like "preaching to the chior" but, the Mini is perhaps the easiest car I've ever owned to change oil in. I can't imagine a Mini motorhead (like we all are) not wanting to crawl around under the hood and mess around with stuff. The oil is the easiest thing to mess around with in my book.

The whole "we'll pay for all the maintenance for 36K miles" thing is, to me, a large advertising come on, sorta like 0% financing and no money down. It just doesn't make sense the way its administered. I just can't get comfortable with the idea that we can go 15K miles on 4+ quarts of oil. I know Mobil 1 sayas they have a 15000 mile variant, but for all the rest, they suggest more frequent changes.

I think that the lesson we all should learn here is that we need to change oil and filter at a mileage much less than the computer suggests.

But, gee. $11,000 is a LOT to pay for a motor. I'd be tempted to try to get it replaced somewhere else, even if it meant buying a used motor from a wreck.

I hope you recover from the pain, whatever its cause.

 

so why's this in the 1st gen area? it for a 2008 turbo.. not sure but I'm thinking your turbo failed due to the sludge not allowing oil to pump through the turbo (not 100% sure since I have a 1st gen, but don't the turbos draw oil from the oil pan as well?) Right or wrong on MINI's part why didn't you at least check the oil? I am guessing your car cost you a nice chunk of change and you just let it go to crap... I hate to hear that your car failed but you have to take the responsibility on this one

 

Um, no.

 

We appear to have yet another collision between science & engineering and "common sense"...

 

touche' - to the point - a perfect comment

 

Good grief, now I've seen it all.

 

what's wrong with saying that there were two cooks in this kitchen? Really, I didn't say the guy wasn't without blame. I did point out that it's consitant with parts of Mini to dodge the blame when there is a way to weasle out of doing what right.
I've seen that. Or are we choosing to forget the almost half dozen "fixes" for the cold start chatter? Oh yea, that was Mini really admitting that they have a problem with lash adjusters.... Something they still haven't done. But don't worry, this fix will do it.

Or what about all those "bad gas" claims when the high pressure oil pump failed? Part with high failure rates... Has to be bad gas..... Gimme a break.

I didn't say the guy should sue. Lawsuits are not because of multiple contributing effects to negative outcomes, lawsuits are because of people trying to scam a system or avoid thier own contribution to a problem, or get this, as a punishment for those that AVOID thier own responsibility.

I can plainly see that most here think the OP was an idiot and got what he deserved. That's OK, I can live with being in the minority... Again.

Let's just hope all those quick to judge the OP don't have to deal with a situation where thier screwed up car is blamed on "bad gas" or some such BS and told to take a hike. It's happened before, and will happen again.

Matt

 

I applaud your effort to see both sides of the situation and agree that there are many situations where multiple people contributed to a problem that should have been avoided. Many times in conflict resolution this has served me well to get both parties past the issue and on to the solution.

But in this situation one party and one party alone had the responsibility and obligation but lacked the common sense to maintain a personal investment.

Sighting other peoples shrugging of responsibility in other similar or unrelated situations when their own actions or lack of action could have TOTALLY avoided a horrible situation is rendered irrelevant.

This is nothing but a SAD attempt of scamming the system or at least trying to scam the public and sway opinion by blogging this self absorbed drivel. Life sometimes hands out tuff lessons or punishments, in this case - Having to take financial responsibility for careless neglect of ones own personal property.

Guess this is "a punishment for those that AVOID thier own responsibility"

No one has been quick to judge, the "majority" are just quick to spot BS. Bet this doesn't happen again to this OP after a $11,000 injection of common sense!

 

If your windshield cracked, they checked it with a pen for a nick. If it was there, no warranty coverage even though most early windshields were mounted with tons of stress.

If you got mushrooming, it wasn't the crappy design, it was your crappy driving. Tough cookies and pay to fix it yourself... And they strengthened the design in the 2nd gen.

And now they have a computer, that supports both mileage and time based warnings, and DON'T put an anual time counter in it.

ALL of these are example of MINI not doing the right thing, and minimizing out of pocket costs.

I detect a bit of a trend here......

So now, we all ASSUME that the real reason was sludge from synthetic oil in an engine with allowed mileage that is within 10% to 15% of what the actual computer would have calculated for an oil change was the problem. Not the cold start chatter that has known to stretch timing chains, ruin timing gears, and ruin whole engines. Not just one but many.

If everyone is quick to detect BS, why aren't they all jumping on that hot steaming pile right there?

That is why I think the guy was screwed. And that is why I think Mini at least should have offered to share the pain.

Matt

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, but all dealerships aren't created equally. Mini or otherwise. Yes I don't agree with Mini on their change intervals and had Blackstone verify my hunches, but,,,,,,,,there are still good and bad service departments. We all have dealt with them in one form or another.
The OP should have taken a bit more care, but the dealership should have cared a bit more for their customer, perhaps. A lot of warranty work is done on how the service department writes up the claim also.
Wrongs on both ends and an owner is stuck with the bill. Still though, if I worried about every complaint on a forum, I would be riding a horse and not be able to sleep worrying about that.
Cheers.

 

This last one is not an example of MINI not doing the right thing. It is only an example of MINI doing things in a way that is different from how you think they should have done it.

Not all of us are assuming that.

Can you cite a source for the claim that many engines have been ruined due to the cold start chatter problem? Actually, just one would be nice.

 

This has nothing to do with the fact:

HE DID NOT MAINTAIN HIS CAR.

Thats why he was screwed, actually he screwed himself no one else. This is a classic case of self screwege.




I have a 2002 Cooper wife has a 2004 S.

They have both been in the shop like clockwork often early because I am a fanatic.

Here is a list of things MINI went above and beyond on.

1) Cracked windshield on Cooper S fixed for free.
2) Cracked windshield on Cooper from a large stone. I told the dealer about it being a stone and they still fixed it for free.
3) Steering wheel with airbag replaced for free because there was a discoloration in the chrome. Had to ask the regional rep but still fixed for free.
4) Clutch on wife's car at 37k for a chatter on take off replaced for free.
5) Both first oil services done at 7k for free because I asked and wanted to take care of my investments.
6) Cooper S Air conditioner at 60,000 miles replaced for free because they knew of a known problem.
7) Had brakes replaced on Cooper s at 65,000 miles cost me 1200 bucks. Mini found a broken seat back and visor and fixed it for free.

I detect a bit of a trend here......

Midwestern MINI knows I take care of my cars because I give them my business. They do the work, yes I could find a cheeper place but I know them and they take care of me they "share the pain". This works in so many business relationships the business makes money and I get good service.

Now lets think how would I have been treated if I did not take a proactive role in the maintenance of my investments and showed up at 20k with a neglected broken car and wanted them to "share the pain".


Oh by the way I just traded in the 2002 cooper on a 2010 clubman. Guess what I got a great trade in a fair price on the Clubman and stellar service. Why because they know me they know the car they know I will take care of it. The service manager even went out of his way to say thanks for buying another Mini and that he expected to see me in about a month to check over the car and fix any teething issues I have.

I detect a bit of a continuing trend here.....

 

go ahead and defend the honor of Mini based on your one experience with a dealership that treated you well. Your experience is far from universal.

As far as the cold start issue, go onto pretty much ANY mini forum, here, UK, germany, whatever, and look at issues with the cold start chatter. Heck, the thread here has almost 1600 posts. The fault database has 380 posts. There are even people who have had more than one engine replaced!

You say he didn't maintain his car. Over a mileage countdown by less than 15%. And the engine grenaded? You've got to be kidding. I can't think of a single failure mode where an oil change at 2600 miles earlier wouldn't have still allowed the cold start chatter issue (that remember, started with "We've never heard of this" to "It's normal and doesn't cause any damage" to "We've got a test to see if you need work" to "Oh Sh*t! Bring it in and we'll swap a bunch of parts!"), wouldn't have resulted in some of the sludge build up that MINI claims is the root cause of this whole thing, or generally resulted in a long lived engine.

Anyway, seems like minds won't be changed here. Like LostinTX says, not all dealers are created equal. Yours fixed something for you that they didn't have to, and the OPs didn't fix something that they probably should have, or at least offerent to discount the service.

Anyway, the lessons learned here were covered in the OPs blog:

• Don't always believe your MA or SA.
• Do your homework.
• Don't trust the car's service timer/mileage clock.
• Don't belive the ultra long service intervals.
• Do more maintenance that the dealer will give you (even though they claim that you don't have to pay for any maintenance over the first 36k miles). Heck the manual even says check and top up your oil regularly. And this isn't free!

We could fight for a month of Sundays about the idea that Mini should or shouldn't help the guy with an $11k repair bill. Needless to say, by not doing it, I seriously doubt that he'll buy another Mini. Even after he's calmed down and gained some perspective. And I also think there's a chance (a pretty good one) that some buyers will be more apprehensive or not buy because of his experience (or some of the many like his that are out there). And that is just bad business. Something that your dealer understands. And his dealer didn't.

Matt

 

Matt[/QUOTE]


You are correct minds won't be changed thats obvious.

Demonstrating a much better experience was obtained by being proactive over an eight year period and ACTUALLY having maintenance performed on your car is dismissed as a "one time" experience to defend a companies "Honor".

Never thinking how different this situation would have been if common sense was used and how different his dealer would of been able to act if he actually took responsibility.

Missing the point that if I behaved as irresponsibly as our shinning example has that my experience over eight years with my Mini dealer would have rightfully been less then it has been.

Continuing to sight statistically useless internet forum posts about Mini issues that have nothing do with how he got in this mess - PROBLEMS thats why people go to forums, its why I do. If you wanted to statistically find out what percentage of people have the flu you would not just take a survey in a doctors office would you, why because thats where people with the flu go!

Three last things to add to what we learned from our OP's blog and then I am done waisting my time.

Actually they are famous quotes:

"Stupid is as stupid does"

"You reap what you sow"

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

 

Dr Obnxs,

What you seem to gloss over here is that we don't get the oppertunity to bash MINI because the donkey gave MINI a LEGITIMATE means of warranty denial! You just keep glossing over that to bash MINI....This scenario is no different than the modders. If you mod, you know going in that you are voiding your warranty. don't blame the OEM, you knew the risk going in....some dealers are going to be reasonable and some aren't but ultimately you remove the ability to blame anyone but yourself if you find a warranty claim denied because you were aware!

 

they did, it was a BAD excuse. Here's a thread from someone who did the reccomended service intervals and the turbo died from oil starvation... Why? Sludge.... Just now looking to see how bad the damage is.

I AGREE that the OP opened the door by being late with the service. But I also think MINI is going to be eating a lot of repair bills by having people go too long on oil changes.

Matt