Picture Of My Valves......Before SeaFoam
#76
Thanks for the advice. It certainly makes sense that I should add the CC system, but it seems I may be in limbo until the various aftermarket sources come up with a version for the 2011 and later cars. I discussed this issue with my son and I think he will be adding the CC system to his Clubman. He is a poor college student and while the cost of adding the system isn't something he has budgeted for, the cost of the consequences could be a much larger unbudgeted expense.
#77
I was just reading through the Mini TSB .. WTH !!
How does carbon on the intake valves relate to the quality of the fuel that the back side of the valves never see ?!?! Well at least now I know why the service advisors won't do anything.
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oops, might be premature in ranting at Mini. This TSB does NOT cover the turbo engine. You can see from the illustrations in Procedure C along w/ the engine designation (N12) this is for the non-turbo/base coopers. The turbo engine is N14. If anyone has access to the Mini TIS system, I'd really like to see if there are any TSB's pertaining to carbon buildup and the N14 engine.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Because carbon deposit build up is related to fuel quality, it cannot be considered as a defect in a vehicle's materials or workmanship. Consequently, performing the BMW Group Fuel Injection & Induction System Cleaning Procedure is not covered under the terms of the MINI New Vehicle Limited Warranty, maintenance plan or the MINI Next Certified Pre-Owned Program.
Because carbon deposit build up is related to fuel quality, it cannot be considered as a defect in a vehicle's materials or workmanship. Consequently, performing the BMW Group Fuel Injection & Induction System Cleaning Procedure is not covered under the terms of the MINI New Vehicle Limited Warranty, maintenance plan or the MINI Next Certified Pre-Owned Program.
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oops, might be premature in ranting at Mini. This TSB does NOT cover the turbo engine. You can see from the illustrations in Procedure C along w/ the engine designation (N12) this is for the non-turbo/base coopers. The turbo engine is N14. If anyone has access to the Mini TIS system, I'd really like to see if there are any TSB's pertaining to carbon buildup and the N14 engine.
Last edited by n1tr0; 02-23-2011 at 07:51 AM. Reason: TSB is for wrong engine type
#79
I was just reading through the Mini TSB .. WTH !!
How does carbon on the intake valves relate to the quality of the fuel that the back side of the valves never see ?!?! Well at least now I know why the service advisors won't do anything.
---
oops, might be premature in ranting at Mini. This TSB does NOT cover the turbo engine. You can see from the illustrations in Procedure C along w/ the engine designation (N12) this is for the non-turbo/base coopers. The turbo engine is N14. If anyone has access to the Mini TIS system, I'd really like to see if there are any TSB's pertaining to carbon buildup and the N14 engine.
How does carbon on the intake valves relate to the quality of the fuel that the back side of the valves never see ?!?! Well at least now I know why the service advisors won't do anything.
---
oops, might be premature in ranting at Mini. This TSB does NOT cover the turbo engine. You can see from the illustrations in Procedure C along w/ the engine designation (N12) this is for the non-turbo/base coopers. The turbo engine is N14. If anyone has access to the Mini TIS system, I'd really like to see if there are any TSB's pertaining to carbon buildup and the N14 engine.
#80
Fishbert,
When you say "another round of the blue stuff", do you mean by the dealership or did you use it yourself? If you did it yourself, what was the procedure? Seafoam style or some other?
When you say "another round of the blue stuff", do you mean by the dealership or did you use it yourself? If you did it yourself, what was the procedure? Seafoam style or some other?
Ok, so after some manual scraping, a round of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner (in the intake manifold *and* down the spark plug holes), a new catalytic converter (thank you, EPA-mandated warranty!), and another round of that excellent presto-chango "now you see carbon; now you don't" blue stuff… I finally got a catch can on that damn PCV line!
#81
I second that! We need the "official" N14 procedure! Going into the fuel rail isn't going to do squat on the DI engine.
oops, might be premature in ranting at Mini. This TSB does NOT cover the turbo engine. You can see from the illustrations in Procedure C along w/ the engine designation (N12) this is for the non-turbo/base coopers. The turbo engine is N14. If anyone has access to the Mini TIS system, I'd really like to see if there are any TSB's pertaining to carbon buildup and the N14 engine.
#82
I had the dealership do the blue stuff. Good thing, too, as I believe the gunk dislodged in the first go-around fouled my catalytic converter. I doubt it would've been covered under the 80,000 mile warranty had I done it on my own.
#84
#85
You can find it on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bmw-f...Q5fAccessories
I was advised by a tech that contribues to the bobistheoilguy.com site to mix 150 ML (milliliters) of it with 400 ML gas before use as it is highly concentrated. I have used it a couple of times with my carfood.net drip feeder and it works very well with less smoke than Seafoam. However, I usually get a misfire and throw a CEL, even on other cars besides the MINI. The CEL goes away after a battery disconnect or driving an hour or so.
I was advised by a tech that contribues to the bobistheoilguy.com site to mix 150 ML (milliliters) of it with 400 ML gas before use as it is highly concentrated. I have used it a couple of times with my carfood.net drip feeder and it works very well with less smoke than Seafoam. However, I usually get a misfire and throw a CEL, even on other cars besides the MINI. The CEL goes away after a battery disconnect or driving an hour or so.
#86
https://i.imgur.com/e3FdPl.jpg
I would caution that, after having the dealer run a bottle of the blue stuff through, my car's catalytic converter kept throwing a CEL. Replacement was covered under the federally-mandated warranty for emissions-related equipment, else it would've been over $1000 to take care of. I believe the blue stuff did such a good job of removing carbon, that the cat couldn't handle all the gunk it was receiving, and it ended up getting fouled (but that's just a guess).
So, yeah, have the dealer mess with it, unless you've got a lot more money than the rest of us.
I would caution that, after having the dealer run a bottle of the blue stuff through, my car's catalytic converter kept throwing a CEL. Replacement was covered under the federally-mandated warranty for emissions-related equipment, else it would've been over $1000 to take care of. I believe the blue stuff did such a good job of removing carbon, that the cat couldn't handle all the gunk it was receiving, and it ended up getting fouled (but that's just a guess).
So, yeah, have the dealer mess with it, unless you've got a lot more money than the rest of us.
Last edited by fishbert; 03-20-2011 at 11:36 PM.
#87
#88
what they did on mine is run the stuff "through the fogger" (don't know what that is, but it's what they said), and put the whole bottle through slowly and over a couple passes (like, half the bottle... wait a few minutes... do the rest of the bottle).
#89
This is what I've been told by my SA regarding the carbon cleaning procedure on a R56 S:
This Carbon Blasting is the walnut shell machine blaster that has been mentioned here, maybe in another post. My 2007 with 25,000 will be the first or second car to use this machine at this dealer. I had them take a picture of my valves "before" blasting, I'm not sure which cylinder this is (EDIT: It's #4), and will get one "after" hopefully tomorrow. I'll edit the post when I get it. I know after seeing this "before" picture that I'm going to get a catch can on as soon as possible.
I hope this sheds some light on what dealers are doing differently. It seems they are not on the same page.
BEFORE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnorrick/5611289028/
AFTER
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnorrick/5614499964/
Your first question asked, "At some point in the cleaning procedure, do you fog some cleaner to the back side of the intake valves (via PCV)?" The answer is no. On the direct injected 2nd Generation S models, if we did a chemical induction service the solution would be sprayed straight into the cylinders, NOT behind the valves (this is the reason we do not perform this on 2nd Generation S models). This service is meant for 1st Generation MINIs and 2nd Generation BASE models only. The 2nd Generation S models require a different procedure altogether.
For the 2nd Generation direct injected S models the procedure is to do a "carbon blasting" which entails removing the intake and cleaning the valves. No parts involved, just a straight 2.0 hrs of labor ($212.00). I hope this sheds some light on your questions, if not feel free to let me know.
For the 2nd Generation direct injected S models the procedure is to do a "carbon blasting" which entails removing the intake and cleaning the valves. No parts involved, just a straight 2.0 hrs of labor ($212.00). I hope this sheds some light on your questions, if not feel free to let me know.
I hope this sheds some light on what dealers are doing differently. It seems they are not on the same page.
BEFORE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnorrick/5611289028/
AFTER
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnorrick/5614499964/
Last edited by TheCheatOSX; 04-12-2011 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Added "after" image.
#90
For the 2nd Generation direct injected S models the procedure is to do a "carbon blasting" which entails removing the intake and cleaning the valves. No parts involved, just a straight 2.0 hrs of labor ($212.00). I hope this sheds some light on your questions, if not feel free to let me know.
so they're claiming this horrendous build-up is a normal maintenance item that you (or I should say "we") need to pay for ?
#91
This is what I've been told by my SA regarding the carbon cleaning procedure on a R56 S:
This Carbon Blasting is the walnut shell machine blaster that has been mentioned here, maybe in another post. My 2007 with 25,000 will be the first or second car to use this machine at this dealer. I had them take a picture of my valves "before" blasting, I'm not sure which cylinder this is. And will get one "after" hopefully tomorrow. I'll edit the post when I get it. I know after seeing this "before" picture that I'm going to get a catch can on as soon as possible.
I hope this sheds some light on what dealers are doing differently. It seems they are not on the same page.
This Carbon Blasting is the walnut shell machine blaster that has been mentioned here, maybe in another post. My 2007 with 25,000 will be the first or second car to use this machine at this dealer. I had them take a picture of my valves "before" blasting, I'm not sure which cylinder this is. And will get one "after" hopefully tomorrow. I'll edit the post when I get it. I know after seeing this "before" picture that I'm going to get a catch can on as soon as possible.
I hope this sheds some light on what dealers are doing differently. It seems they are not on the same page.
#92
I just ordered a BSH Catch Can and Boost Tap to hopefully stop most of the oil vapor from getting to the valves.
There is another thread about carbon buildup that talked about the walnut media blasting machine. Let me see if I have it saved.
EDIT: Talked about in this DIY thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-cleaning.html
Also forget to mention that I got a bottle of the BMW "Blue Stuff" intake cleaner that I'm going to "Seafoam" style into the boost port every oil change (7,000 miles). I'm going to follow the SIM 11 02 07 procedure of diluting with gas and hope that takes care of it.
Last edited by TheCheatOSX; 04-11-2011 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Added link to other thread
#93
I can't speak to "all dealerships", but I saw the machine at a dealership in SC a few weeks ago. Was told it had just arrived and it looked like it had just been removed from packaging.
#94
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Up here in the Great White North, this is what I've heard at the dealership. IF you have the right documentation of complaints and the right symptoms, the dealership will remove your head (engine head!!) and send it out to be cleaned up of all the carbon fouling. It takes two weeks, you have to be under warrantee, and you get to pay for your own transportation even though it's a warrantee issue. It's also a rare occurence. But to even know that it's a possibility is f-ed up. It means that Mini knows that there's a problem.
Ok, onto a few comments about DIY-er this issue. This is the road I want to head down as once she's out of warrantee, I'm sure I'll be hearing crickets from Mini when asking for help on this issue.
The dealership will also manually remove the carbon buildup in the intake tract and on the back of the valves for a price. When I asked them about closing the valves to ensure you don't get crap down inside the bottom end of the head, apparently they remove the passenger side front wheel and can manually turn the engine over via the (?!?!) using a wrench on one of the (?!?!?!?) or some nut down in that area (That's right, I'm no mechanic !!!). I may have totally missed the boat on the explanation there, but to me that seems like the place to manually close the valves. Also, any engine experts here ?!?!??!? Will not top-dead-center close all the valves at once or .... !?!??!
To me, to keep our turbo Mini's running well off into the future, this seems to be a critical issue to document and post. A DIY-er on this with instructions and photos would be a REALLY helpful resource on this forum. Any pictures, insight or submissions would be welcome. Manual cleaning is the ONLY way to clean out the intake track buildup. Otherwise it's only a half-azz job. I also have seafoam and have read all the postings. But it just does not clean it all up. There's no easy and fast fix for this issue.
The BSH boost tap causing a pressure buildup in the crank case doesn't sound great. How serious is this as an issue !??!? I have this setup.
Ok, onto a few comments about DIY-er this issue. This is the road I want to head down as once she's out of warrantee, I'm sure I'll be hearing crickets from Mini when asking for help on this issue.
The dealership will also manually remove the carbon buildup in the intake tract and on the back of the valves for a price. When I asked them about closing the valves to ensure you don't get crap down inside the bottom end of the head, apparently they remove the passenger side front wheel and can manually turn the engine over via the (?!?!) using a wrench on one of the (?!?!?!?) or some nut down in that area (That's right, I'm no mechanic !!!). I may have totally missed the boat on the explanation there, but to me that seems like the place to manually close the valves. Also, any engine experts here ?!?!??!? Will not top-dead-center close all the valves at once or .... !?!??!
To me, to keep our turbo Mini's running well off into the future, this seems to be a critical issue to document and post. A DIY-er on this with instructions and photos would be a REALLY helpful resource on this forum. Any pictures, insight or submissions would be welcome. Manual cleaning is the ONLY way to clean out the intake track buildup. Otherwise it's only a half-azz job. I also have seafoam and have read all the postings. But it just does not clean it all up. There's no easy and fast fix for this issue.
The BSH boost tap causing a pressure buildup in the crank case doesn't sound great. How serious is this as an issue !??!? I have this setup.
#95
They are turning the crank with a wrench on the crank pulley nut to position the valves at top dead center on the cylinder they are cleaning. Removing the spark plugs and having the transmission in neutral make this operation much easier.
The BSH duel boost tap only blocks off one route for the crankcase vapors. The hose to the turbocharger inlet is still open, with the BSH oil catch can/dual boost port installation. The turbocharger maintains a negative pressure on the crankcase through that hose.
Dave
The BSH duel boost tap only blocks off one route for the crankcase vapors. The hose to the turbocharger inlet is still open, with the BSH oil catch can/dual boost port installation. The turbocharger maintains a negative pressure on the crankcase through that hose.
Dave
#96
Up here in the Great White North, this is what I've heard at the dealership. IF you have the right documentation of complaints and the right symptoms, the dealership will remove your head (engine head!!) and send it out to be cleaned up of all the carbon fouling. It takes two weeks, you have to be under warrantee, and you get to pay for your own transportation even though it's a warrantee issue. It's also a rare occurence. But to even know that it's a possibility is f-ed up. It means that Mini knows that there's a problem.
Ok, onto a few comments about DIY-er this issue. This is the road I want to head down as once she's out of warrantee, I'm sure I'll be hearing crickets from Mini when asking for help on this issue.
The dealership will also manually remove the carbon buildup in the intake tract and on the back of the valves for a price. When I asked them about closing the valves to ensure you don't get crap down inside the bottom end of the head, apparently they remove the passenger side front wheel and can manually turn the engine over via the (?!?!) using a wrench on one of the (?!?!?!?) or some nut down in that area (That's right, I'm no mechanic !!!). I may have totally missed the boat on the explanation there, but to me that seems like the place to manually close the valves. Also, any engine experts here ?!?!??!? Will not top-dead-center close all the valves at once or .... !?!??!
To me, to keep our turbo Mini's running well off into the future, this seems to be a critical issue to document and post. A DIY-er on this with instructions and photos would be a REALLY helpful resource on this forum. Any pictures, insight or submissions would be welcome. Manual cleaning is the ONLY way to clean out the intake track buildup. Otherwise it's only a half-azz job. I also have seafoam and have read all the postings. But it just does not clean it all up. There's no easy and fast fix for this issue.
The BSH boost tap causing a pressure buildup in the crank case doesn't sound great. How serious is this as an issue !??!? I have this setup.
Ok, onto a few comments about DIY-er this issue. This is the road I want to head down as once she's out of warrantee, I'm sure I'll be hearing crickets from Mini when asking for help on this issue.
The dealership will also manually remove the carbon buildup in the intake tract and on the back of the valves for a price. When I asked them about closing the valves to ensure you don't get crap down inside the bottom end of the head, apparently they remove the passenger side front wheel and can manually turn the engine over via the (?!?!) using a wrench on one of the (?!?!?!?) or some nut down in that area (That's right, I'm no mechanic !!!). I may have totally missed the boat on the explanation there, but to me that seems like the place to manually close the valves. Also, any engine experts here ?!?!??!? Will not top-dead-center close all the valves at once or .... !?!??!
To me, to keep our turbo Mini's running well off into the future, this seems to be a critical issue to document and post. A DIY-er on this with instructions and photos would be a REALLY helpful resource on this forum. Any pictures, insight or submissions would be welcome. Manual cleaning is the ONLY way to clean out the intake track buildup. Otherwise it's only a half-azz job. I also have seafoam and have read all the postings. But it just does not clean it all up. There's no easy and fast fix for this issue.
The BSH boost tap causing a pressure buildup in the crank case doesn't sound great. How serious is this as an issue !??!? I have this setup.
removing the intake manifold is actually pretty easy and the rubber gaskets are re-usable. So if Mini makes a stink or wants to charge a bunch of money, it's not necessarily a big deal, just make sure to tape off the cylinders and plug the rest of the intake tract before you get started. I'm more annoyed that Mini even with their "free maintenance" is being so f'ing difficult on this issue.
Assuming you have an air compressor, the walnut shells and a blaster can be had for about $45 (on the cheap route)..
http://www.harborfreight.com/portabl...kit-37025.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-lbs-...dia-92155.html
When you're all done, I'd squirt some throttle body cleaner/air/wd-40 down there just to make sure there's no walnut shell dust left chewing up your valve seals.
#97
Doing the clean this weekend. Put new hot and cold side piping in yesterday and found nothing but oil in the old pipes. Installed a catch can a week ago but for got to get the boost tap. that is on order as we speak. I'm going in there with a spray bottle of sea foam and cleaning it manually. also got a brass brush to clean the intake walls. Had this done by mini 20k ago and now I'm starting to get a strange tapping noise like before. I too was told i was using bad gas... California 91 octane always chevron...... but i guess I'm using bad gas. Anyways, I'll take pics and put them up. This is going to be a 8 hr job because I'm also blowing out the inter cooler with nitrogen. Hope all goes well
#99
#100