I really like my MINI, but I feel that I'm beginning to drive rentals more than my own car.

First few months of owning the car I heard a horribly loud squeaking coming from within the engine. It was a failed water pump, which needed to be replaced. (Engineers could not reproduce the problem at first, but it would at times continue to squeak.)

Couple months later, complete computer electronics failure. Car would not initially start, every warning light imaginable came on (eek!). Towed; repair shop replaced an internal component.

All was good until a couple days ago. Radiator leakage, engine overheating; towed to nearest dealer and replaced the entire radiator. Ouch.

Are these problems normal, or should I seek out a replacement?

 

nope, not normal.

 

What year and car is this?

 

2008 MINI Cooper (standard, *not* an S). Just over 16,500 miles on the odometer.

 

Sorry to hear about these problems. MINIs are not reliable cars overall (though some have good experiences with them)...however, your problems are above and beyond that. If you can invoke the lemon law where you live, I would in a second. If you can't then I would definitely consider trading it in for another MINI or another car, personally -- having so many key problems so early on just sucks.

There's a point where it's just not worth it, but that's something only you can decide, of course.

 

This hurts to hear, although I've heard it before. I really would like to have my car replaced for a newer 2010 MINI, and give the brand another shot.

Any tips on where to start? I've done some preliminary Googling, and some places have suggested I talk to my dealership first. They are very cool people (Crevier MINI), and I'm sure they'll be able to recommend a course of action.

I'd rather not trade it in, as I'd probably be trading in a lemon, and I won't get a full refund.

 

This IMHO is a very bad statement. You hear this on every forum for every make of car out there including Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, and on and on.

Cars are mechanical items and WILL have problems from time to time.

Now the OP is haveing much more than their fair share I would say but to say the BRAND is not reliable is not a true statement. I have over 49k miles on mine with zero (0) problems as have many people. In fact I would be willing to bet that less than 3% of the people with MINI's ever have problems with them.

 

are not the highest on the automotive reliability scale, but then, cars overall are getting better and better. Anyway, that's a non-issue.

To find out about your states Lemon law: Go to your states web site and search there. Starting at the dealer is the wrong way to go! Self educate on what the legal definition of Lemon in your state, and know where you stand with regard to that standard. If your car is a lemon, you won't carry the loss, the dealer will because they're the ones that have to take the car back.

Anyway, don't assume that you'll be left holding the bag. Once you know where you stand, then you'll have a better understanding of what your options are. Even though your car has a poor service history, most dealerships don't use this in evaluating your trade in value. They will look at blue book, resale etc. And MINIs are pretty good here! So that's good news.

While it's possible, it is very unlikely that your next MINI would be this problematic.

Matt

 

He's had three repairs and he's got a lemon?

Oh, and it's not the dealer that takes the loss, the mfr does - they buy the car back, not the dealer.

I wonder if the water pump and later failed radiator could be related, as one caused the other?

I agree with Schatzy, the number of failed parts reported here is inconsequential compared to the number of cars sold worldwide........

To the OP, first, weren't all these repairs covered under the factory warranty? Second, why not trade your car in on a 2010? At this mileage you should be able to get a smokin good deal, maybe move up to an S or a Clubby? That way you start the warranty clock new again too....

Re: Lemon law, here is the Kansas version....

Essentially, the Lemon Law requires manufacturers to meet the terms of all warranties. The manufacturer must repair or correct any defect or condition which "substantially impairs the use and value of the vehicle," during the warranty period or during the period of one year following delivery of the vehicle to the consumer, whichever is the earlier date.
If the manufacturer or authorized dealer has been unable to repair the condition after a "reasonable number of attempts," then, under the law, the consumer may be entitled to a replacement vehicle of equal value or a refund of the full purchase/lease price and collateral costs, less an allowance for the consumer's use.
The law presumes that a "reasonable number of attempts" have been made after:

• Four unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or
• A car has been out of service due to warranty repairs for at least 30 cumulative calendar days during the warranty period or during the year following the date of delivery to the consumer, whichever is earlier; or
• There have been 10 or more attempts during the warranty period or during the first year of ownership, whichever is earlier, to repair various defects which "substantially impair the use and value of the motor vehicle.

However, the manufacturer does not have to make a refund or replace the motor vehicle if:

• The defect does not substantially impair the use and value of the motor vehicle; or
• The condition is the result of abuse, neglect, or unauthorized alterations of the vehicle by the consumer.

Missouri version:

A defect must affect the use, value or safety of the vehicle. The law applies while the vehicle is under the manufacturer's expressed warranty or up to one year after the date of delivery, whichever expires earlier. Some extended warranties are offered by the dealer or an insurance company -- check with your dealer.

New-vehicle owners must report problems or defects in writing to the manufacturer to use the provisions of the Lemon Law. The manufacturer must be permitted a "reasonable" number of attempts to correct the problem. Under the law, it is presumed that there have been a "reasonable" number of attempts to correct the problem if:

• The vehicle has been in the repair shop for the same problem four or more times and the problem still exists; or
• The vehicle has been out of service because of a warranty repair for 30 or more working days since delivery, excluding delays that are beyond the manufacturer's control.

If the problem cannot be fixed in a "reasonable number of repair attempts" the manufacturer can offer you a cash refund or a vehicle of comparable value.
Under the law, dealerships can deduct a "reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle" from the refund. The law also stipulates that a replacement vehicle must be acceptable to the consumer.

There are some commonalities - it has to be within the first year of ownership, there have to have been four or more attempts to fix the same problem, the car has to have been off the road because of this problem for 30 cumulative days or more and so on.....hence my comments in the other thread about the hood scoop not qualifying for Lemon Law protection.

 

We simply disagree on this. Yes -- forums do focus on the bad issues. But the fact remains that MINI scores from low to average (which is still not great) on every major reliability report out there (that I've seen, anyway). I know it's not pleasant to hear if you love the brand (I personally have no allegiance to any company), but your car is fine which is good! Obviously all of this does not mean that every MINI will be unreliable.

Aaaannnnyway there's no point arguing that any more. To the OP, the reason why I mentioned the lemon law is that these are three very major problems to happen in a very young car. We want our cars to be reasonably reliable and yours is not even close so I would definitely do what I could to rectify the situation. My guess is that you'll just have to trade it in, since it might not be worth the effort for anything else...and just hope that you get a good one next time. You very well might.

 

All of you are super helpful, thanks for all the tips.

Prior to creating this thread I have reviewed the lemon law (I live in California), and it does seem to apply here.

I have contacted my dealership, as some individuals have recommended I should start there, as it may be overkill contacting BMW straight away. I have spoken with a service representative, and they told me that I do not have a lemon and I should just bring the car in should another problem arise.

Essentially, I should just get used to having it towed every once in a while. :|

Also, Headlands, you are correct in stating that the MINI brand has not done well in terms of reliability. This is true, although I still love the car. I simply cannot think of a better replacement. Mazda? Honda? Nissan? Eh, neither of those really appeal to me... Besides, they'd need seating space for a 6'5 fat guy. The MINI does this quite adequately.

I will try to get in touch with the manager of the service department at Crevier MINI, and see what they can tell me.

MINIdave: do the problems I'm having sound like a lemon, or just regular maintenance that has to happen to this sort of car?

 

No it does not sound like maintenance..........to me maintenance is oil changes and brake pads and such.

What you've had are a couple of problems that your dealer fixed for you under the terms of the warranty. Whether you've had more or less problems than any other MINI in California is immaterial, the criteria are whether the MFR in conjunction with the dealer have fixed your car and returned it to you in a timely manner, upholding their end of the warranty provisions. If they have, you do not have a lemon law case. If they haven't, you may......within the provisions of the law.

I am not a lawyer, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night so take my comments as what they are - my opinion.

If you want a different car, you should go buy one - whether it's a MINI or something else. IMHO, you do not have a lemon......

 

This is from here on the CA attorney generals website:

"A special provision, often called the "Lemon Law," helps determine what is a reasonable number of repair attempts for problems that substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle. The "Lemon Law" applies to these problems if they arise during the first 18 months after the consumer received delivery of the vehicle or within the first 18,000 miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first. During the first 18 months or 18,000 miles, the "Lemon Law" presumes that a manufacturer has had a reasonable number of attempts to repair the vehicle if either (1) The same problem results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the problem has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (2) The same problem has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle."

There you go!

Matt

 

If you need a CA lemon law attorney, I can refer you to the attorney that handled my Infiniti case. He has also helped several of my friends get out of their cars with various problems. He would be able to determine if you have a case and it is at no cost to you, the manufacturer pays all attorney fees in these cases. In general, the lemon law applies if it goes back into the shop for the same problem between 3-4 times but it depends on how it affects the safety of the vehicle. In my case, my Infiniti's fuel gauge would read empty regardless of the fuel level in the tank. It took about 4 months to settle the case, but I got a full refund minus .10/mile. It was like renting a car for a year for $800.

 

Lots of passion on this subject. Look at the stats; the MSC has one of the worst for frequency of repair records you can buy. ( The GTI was lower). I knew that when I bought it. I have not been surprised. The base has an average record. ( But hold on to your hats, cars made in China are on their way). The car is built in England by a German company with a French engine. What did you expect? ( I had 1 manufacturing defect in 5 Honda's, I had 6 in 4 Saab's, I had 17 in my 09 MCS). Reliability usually follows closely with manufacturing quality. Not that they are related technically, but it is more of how the company operates, where they spend their time working on the process.

That said, consider how complex any modern car is, and consider the Mini has one of the most efficient, and that means high stressed, engines for sale. If one should be complaining, it would be for the seemingly incompetent dealers that can't fix any car in a couple of days. Fortunately they are not all equal. Unfortunately, they are few and far between.

I have more issues wit obvious design faults they have not corrected. Performance issues that even a Kia does not have. Not trashing Kia as poor, just that if they can solve the issue in a $12,000 car, we should not have it in a $25000 car. BMW is very well known for not caring at all about their customers. You want their car , buy it and shut up. Mini to a 7 series, all the same. Acura may not care either, but they put on a better show.

It all comes down to the sad point that there are no other cars for sale in the US with the performance envelope of the Mini. If this is what you want, you get the entire package. If you want a reliable economy car, look elsewhere. ( Hey Ford, how about a hot turbo Fiesta over here?)

 

Thanks for all your responses, you folks have been very helpful (really!).

Sorry that I started a bit of a flame war here. I love MINI, they make fun cars. Saying that the issues I've had is just something I need to get used to, isn't really the answer I was looking for in this thread. However, it is an honest one, and that I appreciate.

I have, on occasion, looked around at other car manufacturers, for similar prices vs. performance figures. I could find none that satisfied me as much as MINI has.

Today I spoke with a sales representative at my dealership (Crevier MINI), and they made me an amazing deal. It ended up with me trading my '08 sparkling silver MINI Cooper in for an awesome red 2010 MINI Cooper. (I'm not convinced the MINI Cooper S is a smart enough automobile for my current uses, so I didn't really investigate that option.)

They have been exceedingly helpful and understanding. The car sold for a very good price, and I got a very good deal. This new MINI is what I've been looking for in an upgrade.

It has been a strange day indeed. The last couple of days I've been torn: pursue a lemon case, or just live with my problems? Should I even stick with the brand?

I think most of you have agreed that the issues I was having with my '08 MINI were strange and should not have been happening. With that in mind, I found it best to sell it, and buy a new one.

You guys are all excellent, and if I have any concerns I will most certainly ask here first.

 

Congratulations! Glad to hear you found a solution, and a new MINI!

 

be much less trouble filled than the last! Glad it's working out.

Matt