let me try to fill in the blanks .............

The Dealership has not done anything other than remove the valve cover from the car. They have determined that the timing chain has failed. Some kind of part has also blown out in the head, forcing oil out of the engine.

This car was in for service at 32,000 miles and the dealer determined that not enough time had passed since the last oil change, so they replaced some brake parts and did not do an oil change at that time.

The reason I am posting on this board is just an exchange of information with people which have a like kind of vehicle. I have other cars to drive until this gets sorted out, but I think its important to let people know that if for instance you service your own car, have jiffy lube service your car, or whatever the case may be, you can create an environment by which the dealer may deny a warranty claim if they think they can get away with it.

Just to show you how crazy this can get, the customer service rep from MINI USA suggested I take the car to another dealer and maybe I would have better luck with their evaluation.

 

I live local to Mini USA. When I had a problem with a dealer not wanting to cover my flywheel which was obviously bad (making a horrible screech) and should be covered I went to corporate to register a complaint. I was clearly and directly told that they "pay the dealers a lot of money to make the determinations as to what is warranty and what is not" and suggested that I try another service tech. I did and it was covered without question.

I suggest you do the same if you are lucky enough to have another dealer close by. Good luck.

Rich

 

I for one, appreciate you posting this. I've got a 2010 Clubman S with 8100 miles so far and I just personally did my first oil change today and the oil was pretty black and thick, though not at all unusual to be that way as I was told by a BMW mechanic who also recommends doing it at every 7,500 miles if you plan to keep your car for awhile. Just thinking what it would look like in another 8,000 miles.

 

Sounds to me like you have a great basis for a lawsuit. Problem is, lawsuits are very expensive. If you don't want to spend big $, I'd get creative - maybe place ads in your local law school newspaper asking if someone would like some experience trying a case. I'd certainly make sure you have the records of the oil change from the independent shop. It's pretty hard to screw up an oil change. And the dealer not changing the oil when you brought it in certainly makes them look bad. Get some good legal advice. Be creative. If it won't get you in trouble, start a website detailing your experience and use key words so that it pops up everytime someone googles Mini Cooper. Hell, hire a kid to walk around with a sandwich board if you have to. This stinks and you should not let them push you around.

 

Did the independant service shop do work other than just change the oil?

There is no support for their position if all they did was just change the oil, IMHO. Especially on a timing chain related failure! Unless the engine is sludged beyond all comprehension, it would not have caused the problem you describe. I think what happened is the timing chain tensioner failed and nobody caught it till it was too late - just my opinion, mind.....

I'm very confused by MINI's suggestion that you take it to another dealer to see if they handle the repair under warranty - unless they have some kind of issue with your dealer? Crazy!

I think I agree with the suggestion tho, haul that sucker to another dealer and get it fixed. Sounds like a rod went thru the block too?

To the OP, I appreciate that you've posted here, but you've left out a lot of what's going on, you won't get good advice or even commiseration if important facts and details are left out.

We had a poster once who complained that the dealer wouldn't fix his car under warranty - turned out the car was heavily modded and had been raced extensively. He left that little bit out till the very end....

I'm usually not one to suggest getting the legal system involved, but something weird is going on here....

 

The need/desire for more frequent oil changes has been discussed here on NAM ad nauseum. This thread has brought up a potential angle to that. In my opinion, if you follow the MINI countdown service indicator to the letter, i.e. dealer only oil services at the designated periods, then there's pretty much no way they can deny a warranty claim for a blown engine. Do your own oil changes, or let someone else, and while theoretically helping your engine's life, you are also opening the door to denying claims based on "substandard" work and materials used somewhere else.

 

Although I believe that there is nothing wrong with the set interval, we can't assume that there is or was anything wrong with the oil in the car. All the OP has told us is that there was some sludge but that does not mean it is the cause of failure. It did, however, give the dealer an out. Personally I would ask for an oil test to determine what shape the oil was in. If the car was run dry sludge can build up and Zippy posted some pretty good questions. It does seem as of late most people point straight to the oil when something fails.....

 

To the OP: is it possible to get an oil analysis done? I'd go as far as paying for it myself rather than have the dealer do it. This way, you'll know for sure.

But I have to believe whether or not this leads to going to court, but the proof of burden is with the dealership. Anyone can say "yea, the oil used is bad, inferior, wrong type, etc...", it's all here-say.

At the end of the day, there needs to be some sort of third-party independent study done to determine that it was the OP's fault and for taking it to having the oil changed that was of the wrong specs.

So for the OP: see if you can gather enuf' oil to use as a sampling. However, if the engine has been sprayed or cleaned up, the "evidence" will have been compromised. Look at the oil pan. But I would do this without calling the service dept. and simply show up and make sure no one can get to your car first. Follow the trail real close.

If there was a suspect valve, cam gear or timing chain or even belt issues, check out my other thread posting ("So my R56's engine went FUBAR") about possible inferior cam screws (see the pics there) that gets worn out over time and causes engine failure, as GT's now mentioned the timing chain failed. Like lots of the M3's, the cam gear screws are bad.

First thing in the morning, pop your head and ask to look at the cam gear screws and try to get some oil for testing. But again, go in unannounced. Surprise attack the enemy, lol.

Hate to say this, but I think we're going to see many more of these engine failures and the dealerships are going to blame bad oil changes, oil changes not done in a timely manner, bad vacuum pumps, etc and make us the customers the "bad guy". It's happening in the M3 world.

Good luck

 

150% on that one.Hit the nail on the head.Preventative maintenance goes a long way to prolong engine life

 

Just follow the Mini countdown and have them change your oil when it says so to avoid warranty issues but do in between oil changes and don't tell anyone...

 

Exactly what I reccomend...that and CHECK YOUR OIL frequently..many mini's tend to use it or leak it much faster than other cars on the road of similar age...
To the OP...
Have the engine looked at, and the oil checked by a third party...to hear the dealer did not look further than taking the cover off is kinda distressing unless the dealer is 100% sure of the cause of the failure, or they can point to modded items on the car that voids the warrenty, is a ballzy move by a dealer....
Do you have any obvious mods? Bigger IC? Down-pipe?

 

I'm wondering if it's just a bad batch of the cam gear screws that's being used in the original engines that are going into these "repairs".

But someone else reporting the engine was twice repaired and the event of that happening is pretty high, so maybe the dealer's are all being supplied with the same inferior bolts and prone to fail again.

All the dealer's talk or mechanics talk of the you should have changed the oil more, etc is all phooey, when it comes to the timing chain coming off. True, you should do regular oil and filter changes and use the proper oil and check the levels weekly, if not monthly.

The only signs that might indicate the bolts are failing are usually a slight clicking sound coming off the top of the valve cover or the worse case, there's nothing to hear or see, other than the motor goes dead, any time, any place, anywhere.

 

It goes back to the question. Can someone other than the dealer perform service on the MINI and still have the warranty in effect?
In this case, all parts were purchased at the dealer.

 

I disagree. Every tech I have ever talk to has said if you plan on keeping a MINI for a long period of time, the oil should be changed more frequently than the computer recommends. They don't even believe the service intervals themselves.

 

The only modification to the car was the addition of factory JCW wheels during one of the services.

 

Disagree all you want. I have had my oil tested and it came back fine. I also don't know any of my German friends that are doing an early change either. I have hashed this out in other threads; Americans just have the early oil change ingrained in their brains.... Go ahead and give your money away if you want but I have 79K and going strong.

Don't you think that a tech wants to sell to you?

 

yeah, 79K going on yr. Gen1 MCS (the pulley mod in yr. sig gave it away). We are dealing with Prince engines here, and they are not proving to be the most reliable mills out there, compared to yr. blown Tritec.

However, I do agree with U that too much perfectly good syn oil is being wasted due to the ingrained, must-change-every-3K attitude.

 

The only issue I have heard with the Prince engine is folks letting it get low. I have yet to hear of bad oil being the problem. That being said, if you guys want to change it early that is fine, my point was that folks are blaming oil without providing an ounce of proof. Legally BMW can't deny warranty if you get your oil changed elsewhere provided the oil was in spec. All you have to do is prove it was. If you don't have a receipt then get it tested....

I know a lot of German folks running the Prince engine that follow the recommend service intervals with no problems. That being said, most Germans check their oil every other fillup as well.

 

Biggest thing i keep hearing about the Prince engines are they tend to burn oil, and this leads to (most frequently) turbo failure from lack of lube...often with sludge forming in the oil line to the turbo, requireding flushing, and often replacement of the turbo. These cases are usually "Low oil" situations...if it got much lower..and the motor would likely seize...and things like broken timing chains, etc could all happen...so maybe there is more to the story still...
I have heard of several folks that DID get new motors underwarrenty...well not new, mini installs rebuilt motors...one guy then a few miles later said it was still "not the same"..it ran, but didn't feel like it had as much power...he then traded his car in for a R53... He is local to me...stll loves it.
Some of the motors pulled were due to the now fixed timing chain issues, where min had the motors shipped to be studdied to determine the issues....others were "otherfailures". But to keep it in perpective, all companys do have a few failures. The fact the dealer is not looking too deeply suggests they have seen this mode of failure before..and looked just far enough to confirm their suspicions.

 

Check your oil every time you fill up. I spun bearings in my tritec motor from following the oil change computer recommendations and not checking the oil frequently enough. Lesson learned. I've had to top off the oil a few times in my replacement motor and am so glad I do check now.

The original problem was an oil leak in the oil pan gasket if you folks were curious.

 

I'm struggling to grasp how adding spec oil as an owner when oil levels indicate the need would be of any negative impact. I understand we would generally all prefer not to have to pay for intermediate oil changes but adding, easy enough.

 

I was told by my dealer that I should add oil between services, I told them to fill it up when I bring it in. Guess who won that battle.

 

Adding in spec oil (to matain proper fill level) is a requirement.... The argument is mostly about doing more frequent oil changes....
The OP never has stated if the oil was ever checked for quanity (volume), just it was changedby the dealer, and by a 3rd party, and he had proof...I think the fact the oil changes were current us the "Red herring" here...
Th fact the engine had a an apparent sudden stoppage with a quality of sludge is the facts....also the fact is the dealer refused to warrenty the motor...this is usually due to owner abuse or neglect, which is in the cases of many engine failures, failure to matain proper oil quanity in the pan...
If a motor holds 5 quarts, and burns 1 quart every 2000 miles...the oil can get critically low in just 4000 miles...many mini's burn 2x as much!!!
The moral is to check you oil, add as needed, save all service records, and watch you back anytime warrenty service is needed.
I know of many folks who at onetime would spend 2 hrs+ reverting their car to "stock" for trips to the dealer......

 

Wait... Just because the car is service by MINI at long intervals does not mean that you shouldn't be checking your oil and adding to it when it is needed. This is a requirement with any car! I generally have to add a quart between changes and if I were to let it go would likely trash my engine.

 

Mini will usually do a "courtesy" fill/top-off when they work on your car, but if it low when they check it...hm...sounds like they now have recorded proof of failure to check the level....recoded right in the warrenty work...watch your butt!!