MCSA - Aisin 6 Speed AUTOMATIC, failed at 80K?
#501
I just went through this thread pretty quickly as I've dealt with Aisin transmissions for quite a while with the Japanese makes. Here's a few tips to help extend the life of your Auto.
First this is the best description of driving an SUV I've ever heard
Second, this is the best advice no matter what auto you drive. I don't care it it's supposedly "lifetime fluid" or "long / extended life fluid" change it, reset the adaptives and perform a re-learn. Having wear materials floating around in the fluid (no the filter does not catch everything!) for 100k it usually what kills valvebody solenoids and slide valves. Service intervals are getting out of hand as manufacturers try to lower "cost of ownership" with no real regard for longevity.
Third thing is when you reset adaptives there is a specific re-learn process that needs to take place for the TCM to figure out what is going on. This is a fact of life for pretty much all newer multi-speed autos and CVTs. Some TCMs will relearn by driving eventually (Subaru's Aisin 5EAT for example), there are others that will not. Any trans shop with modern equipment should have a scan tool with this procedure programmed in to it, make sure they do it.
First this is the best description of driving an SUV I've ever heard
Third thing is when you reset adaptives there is a specific re-learn process that needs to take place for the TCM to figure out what is going on. This is a fact of life for pretty much all newer multi-speed autos and CVTs. Some TCMs will relearn by driving eventually (Subaru's Aisin 5EAT for example), there are others that will not. Any trans shop with modern equipment should have a scan tool with this procedure programmed in to it, make sure they do it.
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TimL (08-16-2018)
#502
I just spoke with Tom from Revmax, and while he thinks that I probably have a VB issue, the adaptation takes a couple hundred miles. When I reset my adaptations, I only drove it for a dozen or so miles, as I couldn't find how to actually do it. I finally stumbled upon a good resource that actually spells out exactly how to perform a relearn on the Aisin TF-60SN at the Sonax site: https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...g-shift-adapts
So basically:
After clearing, the vehicle must be brought to operating temperature and driven to relearn the shift adapts:
So basically:
After clearing, the vehicle must be brought to operating temperature and driven to relearn the shift adapts:
- Clear any trouble codes and check to see if they come back.
- Drive the vehicle at about 20% throttle angle up through the gears.
- Once in sixth gear release throttle and allow at least 20 seconds to come to a complete stop.
- Repeat this cycle 15-20 times.
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jvidamins (08-19-2020)
#503
I honestly don't hold any hope for the adaptation to fix my 3-4 flare, but I did stumble across another potentially useful tid-bit on the Sonax site that may help me: https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...n-fwd-6-speeds
There appears to be an adjustment on each of the control valves that can change the pressure at which they operate. Perhaps it could compensate for a worn valve. It says for a 3-4 Flare/Bump, turn the K2 adjuster counter clockwise 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns. I took a look at my old VB laying around, and sure enough, the ends of those control valves have a #3 allen head. I put a hex head bolt in place of the torx bolt that was right above the sub frame. I'm not sure how anyone can get that bolt out without dropping the sub-frame, but with a hex, you can at least get a wrench around it. Hopefully it won't be too much of a pain to drop that pan and keep the frame in place. I've heard of others doing it this way. Anyone else try this before?
There appears to be an adjustment on each of the control valves that can change the pressure at which they operate. Perhaps it could compensate for a worn valve. It says for a 3-4 Flare/Bump, turn the K2 adjuster counter clockwise 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns. I took a look at my old VB laying around, and sure enough, the ends of those control valves have a #3 allen head. I put a hex head bolt in place of the torx bolt that was right above the sub frame. I'm not sure how anyone can get that bolt out without dropping the sub-frame, but with a hex, you can at least get a wrench around it. Hopefully it won't be too much of a pain to drop that pan and keep the frame in place. I've heard of others doing it this way. Anyone else try this before?
#505
That's a good point, I did not, but I definitely will. I'll make sure it's between 35 and 45 degC.
#506
Make sure the car is leveled...you dont have to raise it. You have enough room to stick your hand and release the drain plug. If you couldn't reach it from the front, turn the wheel and do it from that side...have a paper towel to catch atf if any. You may also start the car while checking the atf, it wont gush out
#507
Make sure the car is leveled...you dont have to raise it. You have enough room to stick your hand and release the drain plug. If you couldn't reach it from the front, turn the wheel and do it from that side...have a paper towel to catch atf if any. You may also start the car while checking the atf, it wont gush out
#508
#509
Interesting update: I followed the instructions on the Sonax link I posted earlier. I took the pan down and turned the K2 valve adjuster counter clockwise about 1.25 turns. The problem went away during normal driving, and under acceleration, the pause between 3-4 gears was only slightly longer than all the rest. It's still there, and if you floor it, it will redline and SOMETIMES slam into gear, sometimes, just slowly ease into it, but after a prolonged shift pause. At this point, I wonder if I should go ahead and turn it another 1/4 turn, or take the valve body down and take it apart to investigate the K2 valve. I built a vacuum test kit, much like the one Sonax sells. I'm just scared to make it worse by opening it up. I have a set of new solenoids, looks like I can replace the K2 solenoid without removing or opening the valve body.
BTW, I also reset the adaptations again, and it didn't help. I have maybe 30 miles on it after reassembly. Should I let the wife drive a few days and see if it improves after the adaptations adapt, or do I still have a problem and need to take it down?
BTW, I also reset the adaptations again, and it didn't help. I have maybe 30 miles on it after reassembly. Should I let the wife drive a few days and see if it improves after the adaptations adapt, or do I still have a problem and need to take it down?
#510
I've decided to drop the oil pan again and turn the adjuster counter clockwise 2 turns on the K2 valve. If that doesn't work, I'll replace the N282 and N90 solenoids with new ones. I have all new solenoids, but the rest of the transmission shifts so well, I don't want to disturb it. I know those valve bodies are configured to individual solenoids. Since two solenoids are responsible for the shift from 3 to 4, I'm not sure which one may be the culprit and will replace both. I just wish the mini wasn't such a pain to remove the valve body on... Dropping that sub frame is a huge pain.
#511
Valve Body Swap DIY
IDoSeeDoo,
Sorry to hear about your valve body problems. I successfully completed a couple of these valve body swaps and luckily I haven't run into much issue other than making sure the ATF level was correct to clear out an EP light. I have never had to drop the subframe to get these transmission oil pans off. Below is my write up starting on post #221 on how to access the hidden bolts. You basically loosen the top engine mount and jack the frame up to access the T30 bolt. It saves a lot of time versus taking the subframe off. I'm not sure if this applies to your model MINI but I thought I would post it again here to possibly help you. Good luck!
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post3669306
Sorry to hear about your valve body problems. I successfully completed a couple of these valve body swaps and luckily I haven't run into much issue other than making sure the ATF level was correct to clear out an EP light. I have never had to drop the subframe to get these transmission oil pans off. Below is my write up starting on post #221 on how to access the hidden bolts. You basically loosen the top engine mount and jack the frame up to access the T30 bolt. It saves a lot of time versus taking the subframe off. I'm not sure if this applies to your model MINI but I thought I would post it again here to possibly help you. Good luck!
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post3669306
#512
Didn't think about unbolting the engine mounts. But I managed to drop the pan again last night, and adjusted the K2 adjuster counterclockwise to a total of 2 1/2 turns. Now, the problem is 95% fixed. It shifts beautifully under normal driving, even normal acceleration. Only when you totally FLOOR the gas pedal is when it flares, around 70mph or so. It flares for a very short period and doesn't slam anymore. The transmission does appear slightly confused after the flare and it typically goes to 5th within a second. For normal driving, the problem is hidden, but ultimately, it's still there. I wonder if replacing the N282 solenoid and the N90 would change things. I'm getting so good at dropping this pan, I might just try it...
Last edited by IDoSeaDoo; 08-22-2018 at 08:23 AM.
#513
Are you still in Indy?
Are you still willing to help a Mini R53 owner that needs a valve body installed?
I just got done with belt tensioner, supercharger oil change, detroit tuned bypass, etc.
HELP!
#514
#515
Glad you're finding it useful. What problems were you experiencing with your VB? Hope to hear how it works out once you get it back. I don't think the VB bolts are one-time use. I reused them, but I have no idea what to torque them to. I couldn't find a good source for that online, so I referred to similar size bolts on my seadoo engine spec. It wasn't much. If you swap out that torx bolt on the pan, you won't have clarance issues, but you will still have a bear of a time getting it off with the subframe in place. maybe lifting the motor with the mount loose is the trick, idk. I dropped my subframe. Getting good at that now lol
#516
Glad you're finding it useful. What problems were you experiencing with your VB? Hope to hear how it works out once you get it back. I don't think the VB bolts are one-time use. I reused them, but I have no idea what to torque them to. I couldn't find a good source for that online, so I referred to similar size bolts on my seadoo engine spec. It wasn't much. If you swap out that torx bolt on the pan, you won't have clarance issues, but you will still have a bear of a time getting it off with the subframe in place. maybe lifting the motor with the mount loose is the trick, idk. I dropped my subframe. Getting good at that now lol
#517
Good luck with your VB rebuild Minnimal. I've done one VB replacement and replaced the bolts and another replacement where I reused the bolts and both MINIs are doing fine. Just try not to over torque. I agree with IDoSeaDo that you shouldn't have clearance issues with changing out the bolt on the pan. It really is a lot easier to unbolt the top motor mount and jack up the motor instead of pulling out the whole subframe to get to that hidden pan bolt.
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minnimal (10-19-2018)
#518
Good luck with your VB rebuild Minnimal. I've done one VB replacement and replaced the bolts and another replacement where I reused the bolts and both MINIs are doing fine. Just try not to over torque. I agree with IDoSeaDo that you shouldn't have clearance issues with changing out the bolt on the pan. It really is a lot easier to unbolt the top motor mount and jack up the motor instead of pulling out the whole subframe to get to that hidden pan bolt.
#520
Got the valve body installed my cooper and it's running great! For anyone looking for a rebuilder in the Los Angeles area I highly recommend "transmagic" in the Sun Valley area. 1 day turn around, $540, with a 3 year warranty; ask for Saul.
I was wondering if anyone could direct me in how they've reset their shift adaptations in INPA, the "activate" options I have for the transmission is shift lock, S1, S2.
I also have a little hack for filling i'm going to post about tonight; but I just wanted to say thanks again for everyone who's chimed in on this thread; another cooper given fresh life!
I was wondering if anyone could direct me in how they've reset their shift adaptations in INPA, the "activate" options I have for the transmission is shift lock, S1, S2.
I also have a little hack for filling i'm going to post about tonight; but I just wanted to say thanks again for everyone who's chimed in on this thread; another cooper given fresh life!
#522
I wanted to post my little fill hack for those of you wanting to make a VW style pressure fed filler that fills via the stand pipe for around $25 bucks.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...3-HD/204667248
and the pointy top of a liquid nails tube, this is the exact bottle i have
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Liquid-N...-207/202203979
everything assembles like you see in the pictures, I cut one notch off the point of the liquid nails cap; and put it up into the stand pipe, it sat in almost perfectly sealed. Then put the thin end of the vinyl tubing into it, and put the garden hose into a 4qt jug of ATF. Had a friend hold everything and hooked up the drill. I pumped everything in without a mess in about a minute. You just have to be quick with the plug install because it is pretty well sealed using the cap. Hopefully someone else can enjoy this little cheat without ponying up to the expensive machines or the mess of trying to fill from the top.
pump
pump assembled with hose on feed side
what goes into the stand pipe
liquid nails cap
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...3-HD/204667248
and the pointy top of a liquid nails tube, this is the exact bottle i have
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Liquid-N...-207/202203979
everything assembles like you see in the pictures, I cut one notch off the point of the liquid nails cap; and put it up into the stand pipe, it sat in almost perfectly sealed. Then put the thin end of the vinyl tubing into it, and put the garden hose into a 4qt jug of ATF. Had a friend hold everything and hooked up the drill. I pumped everything in without a mess in about a minute. You just have to be quick with the plug install because it is pretty well sealed using the cap. Hopefully someone else can enjoy this little cheat without ponying up to the expensive machines or the mess of trying to fill from the top.
pump
pump assembled with hose on feed side
what goes into the stand pipe
liquid nails cap
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jvidamins (08-19-2020)
#523
This thread is very helpful. Thanks to all the awesome contributors. I just purchased a 2006 MCSA R52 with 60K miles for my wife. She has always wanted one and this one is a one owner, garage kept, no paintwork example. The only problem is that it needs a transmission. Not only does it have the 1-2, 2-3 hard shift but it flares on 3-4 and will leave you on the side of the road once warmed up. I've changed the fluid three times and confirmed it has the proper level. I work at a BMW dealership and have access to lifts, INPA, ISTA and great Technicians. I found a trans from a wrecked 2006 MCSA w/45K and a warranty. Only problem is they do not have the torque converter and claim that I need to buy a new one or have mine rebuilt for the warranty to be valid. They also claim my torque converter will damage their trans. A new torque converter is $1,200 from Mini and I haven't found a reman option online. This is a big job and I don't want to do it twice. Does anyone know if my torque converter will actually damage a replacement trans?
#524
This thread is very helpful. Thanks to all the awesome contributors. I just purchased a 2006 MCSA R52 with 60K miles for my wife. She has always wanted one and this one is a one owner, garage kept, no paintwork example. The only problem is that it needs a transmission. Not only does it have the 1-2, 2-3 hard shift but it flares on 3-4 and will leave you on the side of the road once warmed up. I've changed the fluid three times and confirmed it has the proper level. I work at a BMW dealership and have access to lifts, INPA, ISTA and great Technicians. I found a trans from a wrecked 2006 MCSA w/45K and a warranty. Only problem is they do not have the torque converter and claim that I need to buy a new one or have mine rebuilt for the warranty to be valid. They also claim my torque converter will damage their trans. A new torque converter is $1,200 from Mini and I haven't found a reman option online. This is a big job and I don't want to do it twice. Does anyone know if my torque converter will actually damage a replacement trans?
did you try car-part.com?
not sure if the torque converter will cause any damage, but you could have a transmission shop test it for you. they should have equipment for that.
#525
Thanks MiniToBe, I found a used TC on Car Part but I'm not sure if that one is any better than the one I have. I think I'll see if I can find a shop near me that can test mine. Thanks again.