My apologies if this has been addressed in other areas but I am so upset about what happened to my 2007 MCS (49K miles) this past weekend.

It broke down and I had it towed to the dealer. Monday he calls me up and says it's bone dry with no oil, the engine of course is shot and they will not cover it under warranty. Now let me qualify this by stating that my previous car was 13 years old and ran like new because of how I treated it. My current minivan has 175k on it and runs like new. My MCS was handled with care and I adhered to dealer service recommendations. In short I know how to take care of the basics in my vehicles.

Now I realize the MCS turbo engine requires closer attention and I was faithful to check my oil levels at regular intervals. I had recently taken a round trip of 930 miles and the night before, as is my practice, I lifted the hood and checked ALL of my fluid levels. Oil level showed full.

You can imagine that I'm still in shock at hearing this. In my initial conversation with the Mini service tech said that the mini has no indicator for low oil levels? I looked at my owners manual and on page 96 it clearly shows a warning indicator example for low oil. This indicator never once popped up on my dash. Another follow-up conversation he stated the same thing and when I told him to look at the page he said he wasn't familiar with it and reiterated that the MCS has no indicator relating to low oil.

I've done some initial research and found some similar situations. One blog was almost exactly as mine. Fortunately for this British chap he got a new engine because BMW acknowledged a fault that causes some R56 engines to use excessive oil.

Anyone had ANY issues like this?

 

It might help if you would tell us where you are and the name of the dealer that is giving you the hard time.

 

Sorry, Jacksonville, FL and the dealer is Tom Bush Mini.

 

I had the same thing happen. F-all oil and never saw one low oil light. I had less than a quart in there after checking the oil before a round trip L.A. to Sacremento and reading it as full. WTF! My engine didn't seize though, so phew there, but who knows if it has damaged anything in there.

 

You used 4 qts or more in a 1,000 mile trip and MINI says this is your fault somehow?

Is there no indication of a leak? oil on the bottom or rear of the car?

Do you change oil more frequently than the computer says or just follow the computer based service intervals?

There is no inciactor on US cars to show when the oil level is low, only an idiot light for low oil pressure. Usually when that comes on, it's too late! So don't hang your hopes on that idea. I'd still want them to tell me where all the oil went.

Edit: just reread your post - you took a 930 mile trip and checked the oil after that, and it was fine. How long has it been (how many miles) since the trip?

 

My service guy said there was no indication of a leak and I saw nothing from underneath before the tow came.

I had the water pump replaced two months ago and inquired to my service tech about more regular oil changes and he said, as many of you have heard before, that unless it indicates the change then its not necessary. Yup, I know, many folks don't adhere to this but I did change it when required. And again, I know it was full when I departed. Wow.

 

So you let your car roll into the dealer with a seized motor that was bone dry? And now you're angry that you have to pay? Get serious man. That's automatic grounds for denial of a warranty claim, regardless of what your story is. You wouldn't stand a chance in court.

Lesson of the day:
Keep your service records in order and don't take your mini to the dealer without any oil in it.

 

Im sure his dealer has all the records, and what was he suppose to do put fresh oil in and then send it in?

 

All I can think of that would help your position is for them to be able to duplicate the low oil light not working. If that is busted, it does seem to be a bit less they can say about your causing it.

Putting oil in a car isn't ethical, but there wouldn't be this thread here for us to post in.

 

YES!

 

I'm baffled regarding where the heck the oil went...

Two months ago water pump replacement
Recently checked oil (good) then drove 930 miles

Is this right? Did you check oil after your return, or since the trip?

Can you estimate how many total miles the car traveled between your last check of the oil level, and the failure?

This just doesn't seem right at all.

 

Look, I'm not the only one this has happened to...

http://www.mini2.com/forum/dealershi...y-wrangle.html

...and I have very accurate records of service. Since I regularly check my oil level (the night before my trip it was in my garge with the hood up and all my fluids were checked) it would have been inconceivable to me to put oil into it after it quit because a seized engine would have been the last thing on my mind. Yes, I knew of the timing belt tensioner issues but I hadn't experienced those. So I had an idea maybe this was the problem with the engine since I monitor this blog frequently. And to add oil into an engine that seized for lack of oil would show that I knew what the problem was AND that I lacked integrity. So when the service tech called and said my engine was dry I was floored. But thanks for the lecture.

Car traveled 10k since last oil change. Again, many are not in agreement with the Mini allowances in this area but as long as the fluid level remains full then it should be ok said my service tech.

Finding out from research that this is in fact possible. Proving it will be another issue.

 

so how many miles from the check that you did prior to departing, until the failure may I ask?

 

You're "sure"? Really? He's clearly out of the maintenance plan so you're merely making an assumption. And yes, he should have put oil in it.

Listen, I'm a tech myself and I'm being totally honest with you. If you're motor had a proper amount of oil in it when it rolled into the dealer, regardless if it was NEW or OLD, this thread wouldn't exist.

Speaking of integrity, why do you expect the dealer to replace something that YOU weren't properly maintaining? You seem to be avoiding this question: How many miles has it been since you last checked your oil? Two previous posts asked this, but at this point I wouldn't believe anything you say.

So, good luck paying for that motor!

 

Read my initial post. 930 mile round trip. Checked at the beginning - all was well. My trip ended when the engine seized, no warning or nothing. Towed to the dealer from that point. By the Mini owners manual I did maintain the engine.

I don't feel the need to convince at this point. My initial research shows there have been others so I'll have to keep looking into it. Which is why I posted to begin with.

 

I have been down this road and pouring fresh oil into a siezed engine is not going to fool any but the most untalented or newest technician. What it would have done would be to eliminate any ambiguity from the equation and prove the owner was lying.

 

The major question here, is the vehicle still under warranty or not? Mileage wise it is but time could be a problem, or not.

If it is out of warranty by time, the manufacturer would have a policy adjustment case and they are not governed by any set of rules. If time wise it still is under warranty, there are Federal Laws dictating the terms. The warranty provider would have to prove owner abuse to deny the claim.

While a lack of oil in a seized engine might be a Prima facie case in the opinion of some, it is not in legal terms. There are several possible causes for a lack of oil. Did a mechanical malfunction cause a massive oil loss (ruptured hose,etc.) causing the engine to seize? Did a malfunction cause the engine to seize and then dump the oil? Was there a mechanical malfunction causing the engine to use abnormally large amounts of oil, by burning it, leading to the engine seizing?

Too often technicians are trained to observe the obvious and ignore the possible. Nine times out of ten, a seized engine indicates a lack of oil and abuse or failure to maintain on the owners part. In that one time out of ten, there can be extenuating circumstances. A trained and qualified technician can carefully disassemble the engine and look for reasons of failure. While a lack of oil will be easy to see, what may be found broken in other areas can explain where the oil went.

If faced with a potential 7-8 thousand dollar expense, I would take the steps to solve the riddle. Pay someone to disassemble and give you a report. This should be done with the co-operation of the dealer. I would also consult with an attorney who specializes in consumer automotive cases. What appears sometimes to be just "tough luck" is not always.

 

thanks - I did not realize the failure was immediately at the end of the trip.

so 5 quarts disappear in 3 tanks of gas, which is just nuts.

no leak apparent, no cloud of blue smoke from a blown seal, no signs...

i'd be looking for Mini to step up, and offer some explanation.

that's just wrong. d*mned wrong.

 

Your original post was confusing, I also did not understand that it ran out of oil in 1000 miles.....

There has to be a reason, if there are no external reasons, backed out tensioner, hole in the block or massive gasket leakage, then it went internally - meaning burned it, in which case there should be something to find, broken rings, oil film all over the back of the car and so on.

However the OP says none of this happened, so either his numbers are wrong or this story simply does not make sense.

I'd pay the dealer to tear it down and find out what happened, then go from there.

Or trade it in and call it a day....

Here's my theory....

I'll bet it turns out to have a clogged oil drain line from the turbo, and it's been pushing oil past the turbo for quite a while now.

I've read so many instances of clogged turbo drain lines here, most if not all ending in expensive engine repairs, I can't in good faith even imagine not changing the oil in my turbo car at least twice a year or every 7,500. (which I do - I also only use the factory filter and MINI oil) despite what MINI says.

Here is another case of an owner who tried to follow MINI's oil change schedule and he has a bad motor - I'll bet a coke that's what caused the problem.

To the OP, what's your next move?

Just because a lot of people type an opinion doesn't make it true, you know. So I would not base the succesful outcome of your protest to MINI on cases found on internet blogs, they carry little or no real weight. The only thing that will help you are facts. Expert opinion of what went wrong and thorough service records to back up that you did your part. Otherwise, I think you're toast...

Keep up apprised, will you?

 

I misunderstood the OP about the interval he checked his oil. You're definitely not at fault and should make as much noise as possible at the dealer and with corporate.

OP - Does the motor crank? Excessive cylinder wall wear will initially give you poor performance and rough idle due to low compression, but you described it as the motor dying instantly on you. Don't believe what the dealer is telling you and press on them hard.

FYI - I bought a R53 off of someone who had it towed in to the dealer and was told that the motor was seized. I suspected it was just a head gasket.....I was right. They wanted to charge the guy $5K+ for a rebuild, but I repaired it for less than $200.

 

My 07' MCS with 49K miles has been purchased back by Mini USA due to excessive oil consumption. The dealer ran 2 oil consumption tests after which all dealer repair history records along with oil consumption results where sent to Mini USA. The dealers in my area kept telling me that 1qrt of oil per 1000 miles was normal. I didn't believe them kept asking them for an official document that would show the normal oil consumption levels...Obviously there isn't one.... End of the story they did what they were supposed to-buy it back.
What can I tell you....brilliant marketing of the Mini cars but such poor built quality. I will never buy another Mini.

 

Add another one to this thread. 47K miles on a R56 that gets the oil changed every 5K and checked on a regular basis. In the last 1K miles it has suddenly started pulling 1/2 a quart every 500 miles. Before that, barely 1/2 quart between oil changes.

Sad to say, took it to the dealers and tried to explain - its losing oil, not leaking it and power is down, the motor loses boost at odd times. End results of a week without the car is the dealer can't find anything wrong with it. LMAO - they put plugs in it and claimed the problem is gone. Damn thing seemed like it would barely make it home at times from the dealers.

They would not even pull the hoses off the compressor and see if it was full of oil. Next stop - contact MINI directly.

 

+1
2007 mini copper s with only 30.000 miles.
my dealer said mine timing was off.
and they replace the timing chain and the tensioner and guides.
that was done 6 days before the warranty end it.

 

My friend has a 2007 Mini Cooper S. She showed me all the paperwork on all service work ever done, SINCE IT WAS BOUGHT!!! Every oil change ever done has been with synthetic oil! Now, the car is driven for just under 3,000 miles and it's bone dry and the engine has a huge failure to it where the pistons and the timing chain is all damaged.

They said its bone dry in the vehicle, that no oil is in it. On top of that, they do not find a leak, whatsoever! I am trying to figure this out.. I have found stories, all linking to models from 07 and from what I understand is there is something up with oil in MINIs just disappearing real quick... too quick if you ask me... So this must be some kind of re-occuring problem with MINIs...

Don't get me wrong, I understand regular checking a car, but there should be a sensor on the vehicle that states that pressure is low, not that its gone... And a lot of people are not mechanics and have to much hustle and bustle to, right before they get in a car, check the oil levels and then drive off. If you have to check it that much, they should putting something in the dash stating your levels or a computer to tell you your status. NO CAR, in all the cars I have seen, driven and sold (I'm a used car salesman) Have I ever seen that much needed attention to oil levels on a vehicle..

Now is the maintenance on the owner, yes, it is. But you know what they all say when you get an oil change, that it should be done every 5-10k miles.... Now, if MINI KNEW that it eats oil, they should have said 2-3K miles, get it re-serviced with synthetic and it should be in the manual as such. With my VW, its every 10K with synthetic. So then, if the owner is DOING what is told... is it still really the owners fault that the oil is not in there, since they were told that an oil change should be done every 5-10k miles, especially when a service light does not turn on to indicate that you are experiencing low oil pressure and that the issue occurred at 3k miles..

I'm not the one to complain, but my friend is out nearly 10K from this damage...

 

You really should check the oil on any car with every fill up. Most manufacturers agree that oil consumption of a quart every one thousand miles is acceptable. You should never go as long as the recommended oil change interval without checking the oil, you might be lucky and get away with it for a while, but that is asking for disaster.

The turbo models tend to use more oil than the non-turbo models and must be watched more closely.

Dave