+1 2009 jcw r55

 

Ok, so I got a call back from my SA. They watched my videos and agreed that the sound is not right. They are going to leave the car out tonight again and try again in the morning to replicate it. He says that they are at the mercy of the car at this point. It's only the 4th time it had ever done it to me and the weather here has been 30F one day and 70F the next. I had a feeling this would happen, but it happened 2 days in a row, so I thought it was the right time to take it in. If it doesn't knock/rattle tomorrow, they'll then take it another step and measure the chain. According to the bulletin, they can just measure the tensioner. That seems like a lot less work and we'd already know. Nonetheless, I guess we'll find out if the two sounds are related. I'm hoping they are. The more I listen to it, the more it sounds like a chain slapping something. If it's not the chain, could the knocking simply be a timing/detonation problem?

 

+1 2008 Clubman S

At 11k miles, chain measured 68.2MM - Full SIM110207 performed (tensioners 597-895 and 534-833 used)
At 40k miles, chain measured 70.5MM - Full SIM110207 performed (tensioners 609-483 and 534-833 used)

Both times had the classic "sounds like a lose heat shield" and/or "coffee can full of bolts" sound - only the 11k did it when it was hot only, and the 40k did it when it was cold only.
SA didn't ask many questions, and indicated it was a VERY common thing.

As another note - the loaner car I got (clubie S) had the EXACT SAME SOUND/PROBLEM - it had 16k on the clock.

So.... do we dump these fun-as-hell-little-ticking-time-bomb-cars after the warranty, or just keep throwing new tensioners in for the sake of driving a cool-*** little car....??

 

It's likely I'm trading in at warranty end unless I decide to go the extended warranty route. Theres just not much else out there that I like under $40k. Thinking I might go STi.

 

FWIW here is mine...


http://youtu.be/LE7hEG3FPdk

 

Some more research on the Tensioner's:

It looks like tensioner 11-31-7-597-895 was retired in Sep 2011
and replaced with tensioner 11-31-4-609-483.

(source: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=11&fg=25&hl=6)

So this is a fairly new tensioner (i.e. 4 months old). It will be interesting to see the longevity of chains with this new tensioner.

 

Some more research on the tensioners:

It looks like 11-31-7-597-895 has been retired as of Sep 2011
and replaced with 11-31-4-609-483. So this is a 4 month old part.

(source:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=11&fg=25&hl=6)

It'll be interesting to see the longevity of chains with these new tensioners.

 

Dropped my 07 MCS off at the shop last night for a cold morning start and was confirmed today that it needed a tensioner. I was quoted $180 so I'm ok with that. Just hoping I don't need to do this again in a few years. I'm already out of warranty but this car only as 22,000 miles on it! Insane that this is an issue.

In related news...I miss driving my MINI. Using a VW Passat until it gets back and it feels like I'm literally driving a boat down the street. In fact I'm convinced the last moving truck I rented handled better (it does...).

 

Is that $180 quote only for the tensioner bolt? If so, I bet you get the problem again. When mine was changed out, my SA and mech. said that since the original tensioner bolt wasn't adjusting the chain correctly that it probably damaged the chain itself, the guide, etc. so they did the whole ball of wax. Mine was out of warranty and they changed out everything and charged me $500 of the $1700 bill. I was ok with that as long as it doesn't come back.

 

drsimmons, I'll post in this thread if it ever comes back. Suppose I'm hoping it won't be needing a full timing chain kit. Either way it won't affect me much anyways since I bought a third party warranty given the costs of BMW repairs (time will tell if I'll make my money back or not).

 

Still trying to get a YEA or NAY on if the 2012 models have the new longer timng chain bolt from the get-go. I want to be proactive on this issue with my new ride, so what drsimmons' SA & Mechanic say doesn't happen.

Do the 2012 models have the longer timing chain bolt already installed new?

 

BlackIce.....don't know if the new bolt is on the newer ones or not. Possibly call Mini USA and try and find out if your dealership doesn't know.

 

Standard practice would dictate that, once a revised part has been approved, that all vehicles built from that point onward would come with the revised part already installed... So my presumption would be that all 2012 vehicles have the most recent timing chain/tensioner parts...

 

It's been my experience that unless a dealer can produce a corporate memo stating such, the dealer will tell you what you want to hear whether true or not. I'd trust someone here that is in the know over a dealers off the cuff comment, but I will ask them too next time I'm in, in person.

timfitz63 - I would sure think so, but many companies just don't respond that way as their engines are coming from some crazy place like, oh..., France! Seriously, I can see them saying the MC doesn't have that issue and if it does we will install the longer bolt at the time it arises or the bolt isn't needed "until" the timing chain is stretched.

Also, my 2012 is a 2011 build. It doesn't look like the bolt replacement is a hard thing to do or an expensive part, so I may just pop it out if I have some free time and measure it. That will clear up any doubt.

Anyone have a measurement for the short and long timing chain tensioner bolts?

 

Yeah, I hear ya! That's why I said "my presumption..."

 

+1 Same story. Dealer diagnosed "Carbon Build Up" twice at about $850 a pop until I brought it back for a 3rd visit demanding that I not be sold the same old story. Well, they obliged and quoted me $1903 for a timing chain. Now I have it at a local mechanic that I trust. He's saying Mini is probably right. Timing chain is rattling and occasionally causing misfires.

 

They got it to rattle this morning, thankfully. They said it was the timing chain.

All is well! Now I just have to deal with the damage the tow truck driver caused to my bumper.

 

Here's an update and if anyone has advice for me, I would appreciate it. Olympicare, the company I have the extended warranty with, is declining coverage for the replacement of my engine because they say there was no oil in it when it died on my. I had my oil changed on December 23 -- nearly 3 weeks before the engine died. I drive the highway every day to work (only about 7 miles) but I also drove the car all the way to Detroit (roughly 60 miles) and half-way home before it crapped out. Logic says that the engine would have given in LONG before it did if I was driving without oil. The shop that did the oil change has no way of proving they didn't put oil into the car other than their records that say they did. Any suggestions on how I can try to prove to Olympicare that they are wrong?

 

You're going to have to establish how the engine ran dry of oil; was it engine damage or component failure of some kind that allowed the oil to leak out rapidly...? Did you get a "low oil" warning or anything before the engine crapped out? You mentioned in your initial post that a "cam carrier" had failed; aside from oil starvation, what did the BMW dealer who looked at it say was the probable cause? Did something else that feeds oil to that component become clogged or fail...? The tensioners have been known to back out, causing almost complete (and sudden) oil loss. You'll probably need someone who is familiar with the MINI (and that's not necessarily a technician at a BWM dealer) to look at the situation...

You're correct in presuming that the engine could not have gone that far (150+ miles/3 weeks of daily use) following an oil change where no oil had been added back into the engine.

Olympicare is probably making a blanket assumption that you did not properly maintain the oil level; that you never checked it, topped it off, changed it, etc. and it just finally ran dry. You'll have to demonstrate to them that wasn't the case... The oil change records from three weeks prior will be a good place to start, but that alone won't be enough.

 

I have had my tensioner replaced twice. Ever since it was replaced the first time I have watched the oil level like a hawk and have made sure it is always topped off to the second notch on the dipstick. I still have the problem even after a second replacement. Mine does not sound like a diesel tractor when idleing but only when I rev to about 1.5-2.5k. Sound goes away within the first quarter mile of driving. Probably due to the oil having a chance to work its way through the tensioner and chain and lubricate it.

 

Since no dealer in my area would even acknowledge the obvious chain/tensioner issue, I've decide to leverage my prior career experience as a tech and fix this myself. I'm quite honestly sick of the poor level of service in the North NJ area and after having purchased four BMW Group products and have had three catastrophic failures (all repudiated by the factory - "must be the stupid customer"), I'm done. They know where they can go.

I'm at 97K on my 2007 R56 and after replacing the tensioner plunger with the third iteration of superseded part number, my chain is starting to rattle when dumping the throttle between up-shifts. While the replacement plungers were effective for a period of time after installation, one thing is clear - the guides are likely worn due to the increased physical spring tension that the new plunger numbers incorporated and have probably stretched the chain and worn the guides beyond tolerance. I'm not going to risk slamming the valves once the chain separates, which is what's next.

So I just ordered the Bentley guide to review, will probably pull the head and de-carbonize while at it and hopefully have a moderately freshened N14 when completed. I suppose I'm fortunate to be able to lay the car up for a few weeks while i do this - many don't have that option.

Sad that even with BMW's oversight and venture partnership that the French still cannot build an engine that isn't a grenade in disguise. Remember the Renault Encore/Alliance 1.4? How about the Fuego or R5? All had exploding power-plants. I'm still trying to remember what I was thinking when I bought the Mini knowing full well that Peugeot was involved with the engine production (kick me, please!).

 

I know what you were probably thinking. The same thing I was when I bought mine; great handling four wheeled crotch rocket that produces endless S's and G's with an after glow !

It'd be nice if someone made a fixed bearinged gear for the drive side of the timing chain (little to no wear) and the same for the tensioned side to ride on. Then all that would be needed is a quality chain that doesn't stretch as easily...

 

Here's the latest. The BMW dealership where I bought the car convinced Olymicare that they were wrong in assuming it was running without oil -- especially when their tech said the drained 4 quarts out of it prior to starting to take things apart. Since the dealership sold me the policy and since they do a LOT of business with Olympicare, the company backed down and will be covering the replacement of the engine.

I did suggest to the shop that a number of posts on the internet indicated that the timing tensioner seemed to be a consistant issue but they didn't seem to think that could have caused the problem. Then again, since they're replacing the engine and not repairing it, finding out the cause is probably pretty low on their list of priorities.

And to claify, I was driving on I-75 about 70 miles per hour when the oil light came on red. Since I wasn't in a position to exit the highway, I kept going about a mile or so and then the engine light came on solid yellow and the speedo engine light came on blinking. I exited as soon as I could but I had lost so much power that I slowed to about 15 mph. I limped it into a gas station and stopped. The car still ran but, according to the BMW service tech, when they tried to drive it off their lot (I had it towed there) and into the garage, it seized up within minutes.

 

Ok, going back and reading all the posts on this thread scared me, I can't wait and let my intermittent timing chain issue get worse, I'm running out of time on my warranty. I made a service appointment for this Thursday, we'll see what they do or find. Mine doesn't do it on start up but will do it driving around town after about 20 minutes around 1,800 to 2,000 RPM but will then go away. I have to at least document it in case they do nothing and it gets worse or fails after my warranty expires in June. My 08 MCS only has 23k miles on it.

 

+1 2009 MCS
I heard a faint knocking noise when I started my MINI one morning. I turned off my MINI and restarted it and the noise went away. Since I know there is no occasion when knocking is a good thing and I knew that trying to explain it to the dealer would be to vague I did some research on this site and found people who had the same problem and had their's repaired. When I took my car in for service I told the dealer to please check the timing chain and retentioner. I am very lucky to be dealing with a dealership that has excellent customer service. They didn't even question me and when I picked up my car all of the parts relating to the timing chain had been replaced under the warranty.