Timing chain issues
#126
06-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Timing Chain Issues
My Mini was driven in WI until this past October when I drove it down to TX. I put very few miles on it in TX. When I was driving it one day, I called the local TX dealer saying my Mini "sounds like a bucket of bolts". I wasn't due for an oil change for 7500 miles or so. The tech asked me about the octane level in the gas I was buying and told me to run higher octane fuel with an additional additive from a "real" gas station such as Shell, and see if that cleared things up. It should sound better after a few tanks. I read in the owner's manual where Minis have problems in the high heat if the fuel octane is too low so this seemed like a viable reason for the problem.
The few tanks of gas were run through the car while my husband drove it back up to WI and parked it. I came up mid June and before I called to get it in for service, the yellow engine light came on. I was nearby the dealer and headed straight there, fuel additive in the cup holder!
No surprise. It was the timing chain and not the fuel. Visibly upset and mad at myself (and the tech in TX) for not taking it in for service, the service tech said he'd submit to Mini North America asking for assistance with the repair. He called two hours later and said Mini NA had agreed to pay for half of the parts because I was a loyal customer. The words "loyal customer" stuck with me. What part of maintaining my '07 Mini on schedule at the only nearby dealer makes me loyal and deserving of a break? I immediately thought there must be some issue with the timing chains. Sure enough, googled timing chain and found this site.
I spoke to the Service Manager in TX letting him know what his tech said to me about the gas - instead of telling me to come in to have it checked. He said in TX it's not unusual for the gas to be the cause of rough running and they do tell owners what the tech told me, but that the tech should've told me to come in if I didn't feel safe driving the car. The SM said Mini NA should be putting in for half of the parts for the timing chain and asked what my dealer in WI was putting in the pot. Nothing, as far as I knew.
I called my WI tech with this question and he said that Mini NA was putting up 25% and they were putting up the other 25%. Getting two stories, I spoke to the WI SM and he said the 25/25. I told him what the TX SM said about Mini NA paying 50% normally. The reply was that there was no norm for what Mini NA kicks in. It's on a case by case basis. Additionally, because so many miles were put on the car with the loose timing chain (it is a rather long drive from TX to WI), I now have an additional $500 in repairs, of which 50% of parts are covered.
So far, I'm at $2,500 in total charges and responsible for $2,000. I'm not sure I would've saved much over the $500 in additional repairs had I taken it when I first called in TX, but I would prefer not beating myself up thinking what an idiot I am for buying into the gas reasoning. Then again, with two tween kids, sports practices, games, recitals, graduations, gut rehab on a house, and a husband, who am I kidding? I happily bought into the gas reasoning. It was a way to check one more thing off my list!
P.S. I'm trying to fall back in like with Mini NA in general, and mine specifically. $2,000 in unanticipated repairs so soon on what I considered a go forever car is rough.
The few tanks of gas were run through the car while my husband drove it back up to WI and parked it. I came up mid June and before I called to get it in for service, the yellow engine light came on. I was nearby the dealer and headed straight there, fuel additive in the cup holder!
No surprise. It was the timing chain and not the fuel. Visibly upset and mad at myself (and the tech in TX) for not taking it in for service, the service tech said he'd submit to Mini North America asking for assistance with the repair. He called two hours later and said Mini NA had agreed to pay for half of the parts because I was a loyal customer. The words "loyal customer" stuck with me. What part of maintaining my '07 Mini on schedule at the only nearby dealer makes me loyal and deserving of a break? I immediately thought there must be some issue with the timing chains. Sure enough, googled timing chain and found this site.
I spoke to the Service Manager in TX letting him know what his tech said to me about the gas - instead of telling me to come in to have it checked. He said in TX it's not unusual for the gas to be the cause of rough running and they do tell owners what the tech told me, but that the tech should've told me to come in if I didn't feel safe driving the car. The SM said Mini NA should be putting in for half of the parts for the timing chain and asked what my dealer in WI was putting in the pot. Nothing, as far as I knew.
I called my WI tech with this question and he said that Mini NA was putting up 25% and they were putting up the other 25%. Getting two stories, I spoke to the WI SM and he said the 25/25. I told him what the TX SM said about Mini NA paying 50% normally. The reply was that there was no norm for what Mini NA kicks in. It's on a case by case basis. Additionally, because so many miles were put on the car with the loose timing chain (it is a rather long drive from TX to WI), I now have an additional $500 in repairs, of which 50% of parts are covered.
So far, I'm at $2,500 in total charges and responsible for $2,000. I'm not sure I would've saved much over the $500 in additional repairs had I taken it when I first called in TX, but I would prefer not beating myself up thinking what an idiot I am for buying into the gas reasoning. Then again, with two tween kids, sports practices, games, recitals, graduations, gut rehab on a house, and a husband, who am I kidding? I happily bought into the gas reasoning. It was a way to check one more thing off my list!
P.S. I'm trying to fall back in like with Mini NA in general, and mine specifically. $2,000 in unanticipated repairs so soon on what I considered a go forever car is rough.
#128
06-24-2011, 07:33 AM
Thought I would give an update
I got my mini back today. They replaced the timing chain, the tensioner, guides, and several other parts. The “guide” was also broken (don’t know if it happened during install) so they had to pull the oil pan clean it out and change the oil (It should be obvious since it was part of the repair but FYI there was no charge for the oil change even though my 3/36 maintenance is expired) . Total down time about 3 days.
The good news is it was covered 100% by warranty with absolutely zero hassle. The dealer ( Roadshow Mini in Memphis ) was very easy to work with and really seemed like they wanted to get it fixed and fixed right with a minimum amount of hassle. I have absolutely no complaints about the dealer for any past service or repair. They have always been low pressure and easy to deal with and have fixed every problem I have mentioned without complaint (sunroof sticking, rattles, etc). I would recommend them to anyone.
That being said I am a bit scared about the future of my mini. I LOVE the car but after looking at the parts list and amount of time involved it scares the hell out of me if this were to happen out of warranty. The cost with oil pan removal would be astronomical I imagine. I feel very lucky it happened at 43,000 miles not 53,000. I am debating trading it in and only leasing a mini from now on, or move up to a z4 (they have a $399 a month lease right now).
I got my mini back today. They replaced the timing chain, the tensioner, guides, and several other parts. The “guide” was also broken (don’t know if it happened during install) so they had to pull the oil pan clean it out and change the oil (It should be obvious since it was part of the repair but FYI there was no charge for the oil change even though my 3/36 maintenance is expired) . Total down time about 3 days.
The good news is it was covered 100% by warranty with absolutely zero hassle. The dealer ( Roadshow Mini in Memphis ) was very easy to work with and really seemed like they wanted to get it fixed and fixed right with a minimum amount of hassle. I have absolutely no complaints about the dealer for any past service or repair. They have always been low pressure and easy to deal with and have fixed every problem I have mentioned without complaint (sunroof sticking, rattles, etc). I would recommend them to anyone.
That being said I am a bit scared about the future of my mini. I LOVE the car but after looking at the parts list and amount of time involved it scares the hell out of me if this were to happen out of warranty. The cost with oil pan removal would be astronomical I imagine. I feel very lucky it happened at 43,000 miles not 53,000. I am debating trading it in and only leasing a mini from now on, or move up to a z4 (they have a $399 a month lease right now).
#129
06-25-2011, 07:33 AM
I dropped my new (to me) '08 MCS at the dealer along with the BMW TSB and the SA says to me that he's surprised my car hasn't already had the chain tensioner job done as "most of them" have. He told me they'd take care of me. We'll see.
Update: Wow! A truthful dealership! This hasn't happened much in my experience (but I'm new to the MINI/BMW world), but the SA called me and said they started it this morning and no noise. Then they started it again this afternoon and heard it. My gut feeling is that they never heard it, but want a happy customer, and BMW's paying so let's just swap out the parts and be done with it. They then went through the TSB and my chain was stretched beyond the limit and they will be changing chain, sprockets, guides, and tensioner as per the TSB. Looks like I'm gonna go from a nervous new MINI owner to a happy one in a day or so. Thanks so much to you folks on the NAM boards for digging all this stuff up about this problem. Had it not been for you all, I would have stumbled into the dealership ignorant of this known problem, and would have been ripe for being hoodwinked by the old, "Don't worry, they all do this" story. I think the secret here is to stroll into the dealership with the TSB in your hand and stick it under the SA's nose so he knows you know about the problem.
Update: Wow! A truthful dealership! This hasn't happened much in my experience (but I'm new to the MINI/BMW world), but the SA called me and said they started it this morning and no noise. Then they started it again this afternoon and heard it. My gut feeling is that they never heard it, but want a happy customer, and BMW's paying so let's just swap out the parts and be done with it. They then went through the TSB and my chain was stretched beyond the limit and they will be changing chain, sprockets, guides, and tensioner as per the TSB. Looks like I'm gonna go from a nervous new MINI owner to a happy one in a day or so. Thanks so much to you folks on the NAM boards for digging all this stuff up about this problem. Had it not been for you all, I would have stumbled into the dealership ignorant of this known problem, and would have been ripe for being hoodwinked by the old, "Don't worry, they all do this" story. I think the secret here is to stroll into the dealership with the TSB in your hand and stick it under the SA's nose so he knows you know about the problem.
#130
06-25-2011, 10:11 AM
4th Gear
ok, So I've read through page 4 of this thread and I'm thinking I might have this issue or at least the very very beginnings of it (very faint clicking sound other than the engine that you can only hear with your ear a couple of inches from the nose scoop, granted I did rear end some one about a month ago with only a long scratch to my front bumper). But may I ask how hard you guys are driving? I mean mine is my daily driver with an occasional Sunday morning drive and can sit for 4+ days out of the week without getting driven. Also that I have 9500 miles on the car and I'm the first owner. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this problem...
#131
06-25-2011, 12:04 PM
ok, So I've read through page 4 of this thread and I'm thinking I might have this issue or at least the very very beginnings of it (very faint clicking sound other than the engine that you can only hear with your ear a couple of inches from the nose scoop, granted I did rear end some one about a month ago with only a long scratch to my front bumper). But may I ask how hard you guys are driving? I mean mine is my daily driver with an occasional Sunday morning drive and can sit for 4+ days out of the week without getting driven. Also that I have 9500 miles on the car and I'm the first owner. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this problem...
The cooper engine isnt a quiet one, many faint clicks are normal so if it doesnt sound scary it probably isnt the timing chain.
#132
06-25-2011, 02:05 PM
1st Gear
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#133
06-25-2011, 02:20 PM
ok, So I've read through page 4 of this thread and I'm thinking I might have this issue or at least the very very beginnings of it (very faint clicking sound other than the engine that you can only hear with your ear a couple of inches from the nose scoop, granted I did rear end some one about a month ago with only a long scratch to my front bumper). But may I ask how hard you guys are driving? I mean mine is my daily driver with an occasional Sunday morning drive and can sit for 4+ days out of the week without getting driven. Also that I have 9500 miles on the car and I'm the first owner. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this problem...
After a new the cam came a new Turbo and the bill sits at $3500. They can't say if it's finished yet. The say it keeps "missing" when idling.
#134
06-25-2011, 06:03 PM
I dropped my new (to me) '08 MCS at the dealer along with the BMW TSB and the SA says to me that he's surprised my car hasn't already had the chain tensioner job done as "most of them" have. He told me they'd take care of me. We'll see.
Update: Wow! A truthful dealership! This hasn't happened much in my experience (but I'm new to the MINI/BMW world), but the SA called me and said they started it this morning and no noise. Then they started it again this afternoon and heard it. My gut feeling is that they never heard it, but want a happy customer, and BMW's paying so let's just swap out the parts and be done with it. They then went through the TSB and my chain was stretched beyond the limit and they will be changing chain, sprockets, guides, and tensioner as per the TSB. Looks like I'm gonna go from a nervous new MINI owner to a happy one in a day or so. Thanks so much to you folks on the NAM boards for digging all this stuff up about this problem. Had it not been for you all, I would have stumbled into the dealership ignorant of this known problem, and would have been ripe for being hoodwinked by the old, "Don't worry, they all do this" story. I think the secret here is to stroll into the dealership with the TSB in your hand and stick it under the SA's nose so he knows you know about the problem.
Update: Wow! A truthful dealership! This hasn't happened much in my experience (but I'm new to the MINI/BMW world), but the SA called me and said they started it this morning and no noise. Then they started it again this afternoon and heard it. My gut feeling is that they never heard it, but want a happy customer, and BMW's paying so let's just swap out the parts and be done with it. They then went through the TSB and my chain was stretched beyond the limit and they will be changing chain, sprockets, guides, and tensioner as per the TSB. Looks like I'm gonna go from a nervous new MINI owner to a happy one in a day or so. Thanks so much to you folks on the NAM boards for digging all this stuff up about this problem. Had it not been for you all, I would have stumbled into the dealership ignorant of this known problem, and would have been ripe for being hoodwinked by the old, "Don't worry, they all do this" story. I think the secret here is to stroll into the dealership with the TSB in your hand and stick it under the SA's nose so he knows you know about the problem.
Autodoc1955,
Glad to see things went well for you but for me I was not so lucky. I took my 2009 factory JCW to Dealer #1 with TSB in hand and they said that they could not reproduce noise so they could not perform any service.
After Dealer#1 did nothing I went to Dealer#2 with TSB in hand and told them of my experience at Dealer #1 and they said they would try to reproduce noise and proceed from there. One day later they said they replaced tensioner but nothing else because my chain was not stretched to the point that they could perform any other replacement.
So this means that my tensioner was replace with the same old style tensioner that was on my JCW originally and failed at 6500 miles. So as I understand it the dealer could not install the new designed tensioner because it requires the new designed chain and guides and they could not perform that replacement because my original chain was not stretched enough.
I quess I can expect the second old style tensioned to last about as long as the first one did (aprox. 6500 miles) and maybe my chain either stretches enough that the proper replacement is made at that time or maybe the chain streches before then and causes even more serious problems.
It seems like Mini is well aware of the issues involved with the timming chain assembly they have installed in our cars but want to do as little as possible in the hopes that the patch work approach will get the consumer past the warranty period.
If our timming chain issues can be denied by Mini untill warranty expires then Mini wins but if the timming chain assembly fails with or without the patch work an engine replacement could be the results and IMO that is a bad gamble.
Last edited by Octane; 06-27-2011 at 07:14 PM.
#136
07-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Hi all. My MINI just started making a noise yesterday...it seems to sound like that in some of the youtube videos I've seen about this problem. I've got an '06 MC, not an S. If the bolt hasn't backed out yet and I don't have any oil leakage, is it still a $2200 repair at the dealer? I will be calling tomorrow, but I'm rather frightened of a large repair bill.
#137
07-04-2011, 10:42 AM
#138
07-05-2011, 03:31 AM
$2214 is what I was quoted. The needed parts from the bulletin run $564.06. The labor would be $1485.02 for everything installed. Taxes/shop supplies are about $160. I was able to get Mini of Cincinnati to agree to verify the timing chain is within speck. They didn't want to do anything at first but thanks to complaining about this in the survey I was emailed I at least got this much from them. I told them I want to see the timing chain and car for a visual inspection myself once it is opened up. This should be getting done in a week or so when I go back to get my hood scoop replaced. I will let you know how it goes.
Is there a walk through post on changing the timing chain DIY?
What should be involved in actually measuring the timing chain?
Is there a walk through post on changing the timing chain DIY?
What should be involved in actually measuring the timing chain?
#140
07-07-2011, 07:40 AM
#142
07-07-2011, 05:57 PM
#143
07-11-2011, 11:09 AM
Yep, in the shop right now for another bad chain. 2007 S with 34k on the clock.
Already had the chain replaced last year and de-carboned at the same time. Said it was all caused by bad gas, and not being driven aggressively. I called BS on that, the wife drives that car like she stole it. The first Mini she bought blew the CVT @ 76K, she should have learned her lesson!
BTW, it only MB AMG cars for me and I have three currently with no engine/trans problems what-so-ever.
Already had the chain replaced last year and de-carboned at the same time. Said it was all caused by bad gas, and not being driven aggressively. I called BS on that, the wife drives that car like she stole it. The first Mini she bought blew the CVT @ 76K, she should have learned her lesson!
BTW, it only MB AMG cars for me and I have three currently with no engine/trans problems what-so-ever.
#144
07-12-2011, 05:12 AM
#145
07-12-2011, 05:17 AM
#146
07-12-2011, 09:00 AM
#149
07-12-2011, 12:29 PM
2nd Gear
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#150
07-13-2011, 08:02 AM
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+1 2007 MCS
Mini of Portland,Or diagnosed for $165. Received car from Houston, Tx dealer 3 weeks ago with Check Engine light on and would hardly idle. Just over 60K miles. Mini of Portland want $1700 to replace chain & tensioner. BMW gambling owner won't discover defect until after 50K warrantee expires. There are a lot of them out there according to Mini Madness of Hillsborough, Oregon.
Mini of Portland,Or diagnosed for $165. Received car from Houston, Tx dealer 3 weeks ago with Check Engine light on and would hardly idle. Just over 60K miles. Mini of Portland want $1700 to replace chain & tensioner. BMW gambling owner won't discover defect until after 50K warrantee expires. There are a lot of them out there according to Mini Madness of Hillsborough, Oregon.