Latest JD Powers report summarized in AW online: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...n=awdailydrive

Once again, Mini near the bottom of the barrel and w/ dubious company. Too bad and I wish it weren't so. I have lived through this for years as a long suffering Audi owner who likes those cars too, and where they took years to improve but were always fast with the basic line of "trust us, this one is so much better.." Yes, I expect some of the Mini issues are real and some overblown, methodology or sample related. But, there seems to be a pattern here about Mini reliability data in general.

In addition to the quality questions, this stuff hurts the brand, hurts owners and hurts resale. I hope Mini and BMW are listening and actually making some changes, in all of product, parts, service and team. I doubt it, but you never know.

 

Well, don't believe everything you see in press...
I am a proud owner of 2011 Clubman S, and this is my 3rd MINI...
No major or minor issues with the new car after 2K.... No "new car" problems, no warning lights, no rattles, nothing wrong... I just put gas and drive... And do mods, here and there...
Life is short, enjoy (your MINI)

 

I had some issues with my R53 back when I had it, excluding the factory defects that I had replaced. The supercharger failed on me at 50k miles and needed to be replaced, I had to have the CPU reflashed, and the SRS light sensor had to be completely replaced twice. Anyone I have talked to with a Mini notes their high maintenance costs, but what can you do? There really isn't a Mini competitor out there that you can turn to for comparison. I mean, Audi has BMW and Mercedes to compete with, Honda has Toyota, Lexus has Infiniti, and so on. But Mini is the only company of its kind here in the States, besides maybe Fiat and Smart, and even those brands don't compete on Mini's level.

Not much you can do except enjoy your car. Mini thrives on its notoriety from Europe, and that won't carry much weight across the pond. Give it a few years and I guarantee they'll come out with a slogan similar to Ducati's in 2007. Their slogan was something like "Ducati's now require 50% less maintenance!" Same ship, different ocean.

 

Consistently low is consistently low, no way around it. But consider that the Countryman was new to the US this year and I would think you might see some high numbers with a brand new model.

Also consider the "infotainment" area it mentions. Mini Connected and Nav saw some problems initially, right? Might still be. I stopped following it.

 

I for one dont pay any attention to this sort of thing. Having owned three VWs over the past 7 years I can say that they are much better built then what others would have you believe.

Again you wont really hear those that have no issues only those that do.

 

I think that anyone that reads the posts here is not suprised at the problems that different generation MINIs have. On the other hand, I find it strange that BMW ranks so much higher considering how much BMW "DNA" is in a MINI.

 

I would like to buy a BMW but from what I've seen of its "DNA" in the Mini scares me.

 

These sorts of results are interesting, but the significance shouldn't be blown out of proportion. The difference between the best and worst is that the best car brand (Lexus) has half as many problems as the worst car brand (Dodge). If you think about it, that's not exactly the end of the world if you own a car that has a problem once every eight months vs. once every 16 months. And the Mini isn't the worst, nor are other brands the best. Compared to a Toyota (which most people consider a very reliable car), a Mini has a problem only slightly more often on average, around 30% more often.

So again, this is interesting data (and so is Consumer Reports which shows similar data with some re-shuffling), but all cars are pretty reliable these days, so its not like you can go by Brand X and never have a problem and then buy Brand Y and always be having problems. The differences just aren't that dramatic.

I will say that servicing costs for Minis are very high though. It is a relatively inexpensive car with servicing costs right up there with MB, Audi, and BMW. If you own a $40K BMW, having to occasionally fork over $2K to fix something doesn't seem that unreasonable, but to do the same on a $20K Mini seems much more out of bounds.

- Mark

 

in repairs on my '07 commuter car with 58,000 miles that had the timing chain issue, new cam and as of last night, a new turbo. When you look at it on a % basis, whether current value or new price, that's significant. The Mini is sold as part of the BMW family and touted as having BMW technology which gives the inference it's as good as a BMW in build. I'm not talking aesthetics, because they are what they are, but the quality. I'm having the dealer buy it back from me and will take the loss now rather than have it in the shop again and get hit with an additional bill in another year. I will never trust this car, nor Mini and BMW again. Mini could save plenty of expensive headaches by adding technology where a light comes on with a chain on it saying "Timing Chain ahead. Get to the dealer before your warranty expires because this is something they won't warn you about."

 

Don't get me started on BMW's. My dad sold his Z8 because the thing had problem after problem, sold his 2008 750Li because he blew a water pump, fuel pump, and power steering pump, and sold his 650i because the started died. The only BMW we've ever owned that is problem free is our 525i, and I have no idea why it is. Maybe it's because my step mom drives it so carefully. But then again, my dad's SL500 had problems with the gear selector not working and had to have that repaired too.

It's just German cars in general. If you want convenience, you go Japanese. If you want poor build quality, you go American. If you want stance, you go German.

 

You really are kidding aren't you? He sold his Z8 because he's a moron. That's about the only modern BMW that might be worth holding onto...

It looks like he buys the most tech loaded boats the Germans offer. He should expect problems. (except the old reliable 525...)

When was the last time you looks at American car build quality? For the most part they are as good or better than anything else... The 90's are over pal...

 

It isn't just that MINI is the bottom of the list, but has been one of the bottom 3 every single year it as been sold in the USA.

We were considering a clubman S, but after a frank chat with a bored service manager while my car was being repaired, he frankly stated "do not buy an S, that engine is junk".

 

Problems in 2 areas: owners reporting problems with hesitation (which it turns out is not really a problem) and tech problems (which apparently a large portion are not really problems but just an issue of people not rtfm). So the biggest problems are not really problems - at least not reliability problems. Sorry, but can't really take JD Power seriously when they issue stuff like this.

 

First of all, please don't insult my father. You don't know the nonsense we had to go through to deal with the Z8.

The engine was having problems at one point (one of the MANY problems the Z8 is riddled with, and anyone who owns one can attest to them), and the dealership told us that the fuel and oil were mixing somewhere inside the engine. No worries, they took it in and fixed it for $2,800, we signed the invoice, and got up to leave. When the dealership started the car, the engine instantly began pouring out white smoke everywhere, and they said they'd take care of it. So they took it downstairs again and they told us they'd call us. They called us a week later and said that the problem wasn't what they initially thought, so they told us to come back, they'd void the $2,800 we paid, and then we'd pay for the real fix; the fix would cost us about $13,000 because it required an entire engine rebuild, top to bottom.

My dad refused. He told them it was their problem, they messed up, they should deal with it. The dealership said no, and our SA who is to this day great friends of ours told us to call corporate. We did, and after a month of delegations, they paid for the repairs out of pocket which took an additional two weeks. We stuck with the initial $2,800 payment, waited two months, and they footed the remaining $10,200 that they were going to charge us.

This was one of MANY problems we dealt with. For example, the strut design on the Z8 was really poorly designed in that if you were to hit a pothole hard enough, it would damage the strut mounts and give the car a frame damaged title. MANY Z8's dealt with this, and BMW had a huge problem on their hand. So they charged the owners $2,000 to replace certain aspects of the suspension to help delegate the problem. We paid for that LUCKILY before anything happened. That's just another.

So no, he wasn't dumb. The car was just too much to maintain. He bought it at a steal for $80k at auction, spent another $10k repairing the nonsense that car threw at him, and then he sold it for $110k to some guy in Germany. He is on the lookout for another one because that's his favorite car ever designed, but the car itself was a huge headache.

As for our family, we're European. We're Persian-Armenian to be exact, but my father has lived all over the world. He himself bought American cars throughout his life, but absolutely regrets it every time he does so. It's his opinion.

Me? I've owned several American cars. ****, I've owned a ton of cars, period. I've run threw a SVT Focus, Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, and a Ford F150. All were absolutely terrible, and all were built in the early to mid 2000's. You want to talk about garbage, let me tell you about it. Air vents falling out, head units going out, speedometers falling out of sync with stock wheels/tires, faulty wiring leading to signals and tail lights not working... Jesus Christ, American cars are terrible. I mean, sure it's great that they up'd my credit score paying for them, but I wasted so much money on them. The ONLY thing they had going for them was engine reliability. I never had a single problem with the motors in any of the American cars. But the build quality was garbage. The ZR1 is a bullet, but the interior is lol worthy. My friend just got a 2009 CTS and it's a great car, but it feels cheap. Take my cousin's E90 335i against it and it's just absolute garbage to drive. The comparison is sad. Sure, you get a great car when you buy the CTS-V, but I'm not in the mood for 556 hp on a supercharged 6.2 liter V8. I want small displacement and a small block. I don't need anything more than a inline or V6.

So please, don't assume anything about me, my family, or anyone else I may come in contact with. I wasn't born yesterday, I've more than likely experienced more in my 24 years than a lot of people do by age 30, and I'm not naive to the fact that superior quality exists in America IF I can spot it. But I haven't, and until I do, I'm not bothering spending my money on it. The furthest I'd go from a European car is Japan, and that's only because the cars Honda and Toyota shell out will make nearly any American car look like they were built from parts found in the discard bin. Sure, they may be cheap on the inside, but at least they don't fall apart.

 

I have to agree with Zero Evo. American cars from 50's-late 60's, early 70's were good but after that....nothing but cheap crap compared to anything european from BMW for instance. German cars are flat out the best bang for your buck, period. The problem is that because they use unproven technology in the quest for cutting edge, they are risky. Japanese use proven technologies with high readiness levels but can't deliver the performance and feel. The ultimate problem is that sometimes you end up with a car that's nothing but problems and other times....the car is flawless for hundreds of thousands of miles. It's happened to me a few times as well....both sides of the equation.

As far as the MINI is concerned, the verdict is out for me but it's been great so far. No complaints.

 

Well, I'll chime in here too...

So far, my MINI experience has been positive; no major issues at all. I've also had a positive experience with another BMW vehicle: a 2007 X3. Those are the only two foreign vehicles I've ever owned.

Nearly every other vehicle I (or members of my immediate family) have ever owned has been American-made: mostly GM products, but some Ford and Chrysler as well. On the whole, they've been good cars. In the cases where my sisters have been the owners, some of the vehicles have even proven to be nearly indestructible, based on the poor treatment and almost utter lack of maintenance they received. But we've seen the other side of the coin as well: my uncle had some bad mechanical experiences with a few Fords and Cadillacs; and I had a horrible experience with a 1996 GMC Jimmy that was replaced by a 1997 GMC Jimmy under a lemon-law buy-back. But that had far less to do with design flaws or build quality, and far more to do with GM very likely selling me a flood-damaged vehicle as new... At least the '97 Jimmy turned out OK; in fact, I'm still driving it today...

The lesson is: people can and do get lemons from all manufacturers. One of my best buddies ended up with a Honda whose engine rolled craps (design flaw) about 1,000 miles after the warranty expired. The difference, perhaps, is how Honda corporate dealt with the issue (they accepted responsibility and repaired it at no cost to my buddy -- without any arguments or drama), compared to how BMW deals with similar occurrences on their vehicles (well, we all probably know how those go down... ).

 

JDP uses questionable methodology in their survey, their definition of quality is not what you think it is. Pretty thorough critique here:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...jd-powers-iqs/

Cars get slammed for having non-intuitive controls, so as long as Minis have toggle switches and that *ahem* unique radio, they'll be near the bottom of JDP's list.

 

I agree that JDP is mostly crap, but in this instance, their data seems to be mirroring Consumer Reports which, despite some flaws that occur with any survey, is pretty good data on overall reliabilty trends and certainly the best objective data we have. And in CR's data, the Mini continues to rate average to below average. Again, this typically means 30-50% more problems vs. a Toyota which for most is not the end of the world.

I've owned a couple Lexus before and they truly are marvelously screwed together automobiles with incredible attention to detail. They also very numb cars that isolate you from the driving experience. If you like this, they're great cars and very reliable, but I have no interest in such a car anymore.

I'm also convinced, after looking at a lot of different data and reading a lot of forums, that if you take out the first two very problematic years of the Gen 1 design, that overall, the Gen 1 Minis are more trouble free than the Gen 2 or any the new/larger models. While the Gen 1 engine has some accessory issues, the core engine is extremely robust.

With any car, the more complexity, cutting edge technology, and accessories, the more problems. Basic cars without a lot of options are universally more reliable than fancy cars with lots of gizmos - there's just a lot more opportunity for things to go wrong. Stuff like automatic climate control, memory seats, panoramic sunroofs, electric lift gates, rain-sensing wipers, nav systems, etc. all add complex things to cars that can go wrong. If you want cars that have the maximum risk, get a high-end, loaded with options, Euro SUV or luxury sedan. Great cars, lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. If I ever owned one of these, I'd lease and I'd never own out of warranty. It would be expensive, but it would be predictably expensive and financially worry-free.

- Mark

 

JDP/Consumer Reports...they are all bought out. I still don't care what anybody says.

 

Guess what. I just ordered my fifth replacement sun visor for my 2007 Honda Civic cause they tend to self destruct in hot weather. A known problem with 2006-2011 Civics along with incorrect rear upper control arms fitted at the factory. The interior is starting to look like crap after 4 years due to poor quality materials used by Honda. My MCS? Still perfect since purchase in November 2010, well two defective tyres but I cannot hold that against Mini. My MCS has been the best, most trouble free new car I've ever owned so quite frankly, I do not give a bloody crap what the various surveys say. I LOVE my Mini

 

So far, my Gen 2 has been good to me. Granted I've only owned it for a week now, but I have no complaints thus far. The Gen 1's... Man. A bit of a headache.

 

We've had good luck with our Mini's. My partner has a 2009 Cooper, no problems at all.
I just bought a 2011 Clubman. Only 3000 miles on mine and no problems so far.

Most comments on this website seem to be about problems, as you'd expect. Not too many positive, no-issues comments.

 

I shouldn't rap Mini because my 2008 MCS has been amazing. The only problems have been loose engine mounts at 5,000 miles that were tightened and a broken sun visor that was replaced. I also have a 2002 Jeep Liberty that's indestructible, other than a five year old dead battery, all is good going on 10 years. I haven't had to replace a single bulb! Strange...

 

My 2007 MCS has an oil consumption problem and I just had the timing chain tensioner replaced under warranty. I agree that BMW could do a better job of taking responsibility for the consistent issues the Gen 2 cars are facing. It would go a long way to satisfying current customers which are their absolute best chance for future new car sales.

But I love the feel of the Mini, it feels solid. The materials used for the interior are amazing for it's class/price. Mine is 4 years old and it does not look or feel like junk. My kids and wife love riding in it and I do too. If Mini/BMW see to it that my issues are corrected properly I will consider buying a Gen 3 or a BMW provided I get some guarantee on the oil usage. I would not buy another Gen 2 because of the engine issues.

 

Pretty obvious you don't care or even pay attention for that matter, since CR is one of the few publications that is entirely subscriber supported, accepts no samples, does not allow its results to be used in advertising, and accepts no advertising. Entirely different from JDP.

- Mark