Stiff shifter, NOT the cables...
#1
Stiff shifter, NOT the cables OR external linkage...
Since I picked up my new JCW a few weeks back, my old R53 has been sitting most of the time. I've noticed in the few times I've had her out recently, the shifter was ridiculously stiff in the fore-aft motion (it was fine up until I parked the car). I read around and decided it was probably the cables, since the boots are shot and I could appreciate a bit of rust on one. Soaked the crap out of them in penetrating oil, but it did absolutely nothing for the problem. I then disconnected them one at a time to see if I could isolate which one was bound up, and wouldn't you know, NEITHER was bad.
Any ideas what else could cause the shifter to be all gummed up? Based on my diagnostics, it's definitely either the linkage on the box itself, or internal. I'm hoping there's an easy / cheap fix I'm overlooking, as I'm trying to sell the car (and I've already put over $1300 into it)...
![Confused](https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Any ideas what else could cause the shifter to be all gummed up? Based on my diagnostics, it's definitely either the linkage on the box itself, or internal. I'm hoping there's an easy / cheap fix I'm overlooking, as I'm trying to sell the car (and I've already put over $1300 into it)...
Last edited by Z06C5R; 10-15-2011 at 08:32 PM.
#2
Perhaps the clutch is hanging up (not fully disengaging), which could make it difficult to shift while at a standstill. Try this: On level ground, start cold engine, idle in neutral, depress the clutch fully and gently try shifting into 1st. Does the car move forward slightly while trying to shift? If so, there may be a bit of air in the clutch hydraulic circuit. Bleeding the circuit may cure the problem.
#3
#4
The stiffness is completely independent of any operating condition - engine running or off, hot or cold, moving or at a stand-still. The entire clutch system - hydraulics and the clutch itself - was replaced a little over 10k ago. The gear oil was changed at that time, though I'm not entirely confident they put in the right stuff (independent shop). It went from perfect to borderline unusable over the course of 5 or 6 days sitting in the driveway, so I find it hard to fathom that something traumatic happened internally - I even park the thing in neutral.
#6
UPDATE: Had a good once-over on the external linkage today, continued greasing it beyond sane levels, and still no change. I did, however, isolate the stiffness to the fore-aft motion of the shifter itself, which translates to rotational movement of the linkage and the shaft that goes into the transmission.
At this point, I'm convinced the problem lies internally, but I'm at a loss as to how on earth a transmission sustains internal damage while sitting in neutral. Any thoughts?
At this point, I'm convinced the problem lies internally, but I'm at a loss as to how on earth a transmission sustains internal damage while sitting in neutral. Any thoughts?
Last edited by Z06C5R; 10-15-2011 at 08:39 PM.
#7
Trending Topics
#8
underneath the vehicle, unbolt your exhaust from the cat. There is a plastic box that covers the shift linkage to the bottom of the shifter. Remove that cover and simply pop off the shift cables. (keep note of what goes where!)
If you your shifter now moves fore/aft and left right without issue then you know its a cable and not the shifter itself. Attach the shifter cables one by one and each time checking fore/aft left/right movement of the shifter. When you attach a cable and hit resistance, then you've found the seized up cable.
With the car parked and the engine off, you should be able to row between gears with your shifter without excessive force regardless of the condition of your synchros or trans fluid. If you have no resistance until the vehicle is up and driving then I would suspect internal issues, with which I would start with a fluid change and perhaps Redline MTL fluid.
If you your shifter now moves fore/aft and left right without issue then you know its a cable and not the shifter itself. Attach the shifter cables one by one and each time checking fore/aft left/right movement of the shifter. When you attach a cable and hit resistance, then you've found the seized up cable.
With the car parked and the engine off, you should be able to row between gears with your shifter without excessive force regardless of the condition of your synchros or trans fluid. If you have no resistance until the vehicle is up and driving then I would suspect internal issues, with which I would start with a fluid change and perhaps Redline MTL fluid.
#9
Can't you do the same thing at the shift unit end?
Undo cable at the shifter unit one at a time and slide the end of the cable in and out by hand. See how easily it moves around. Shifter is simple pivot it will hardly cause binding on its own unlike at the shift unit where things have to rotate around a collar or a seal.
Ditto on the shift unit. After trying that out myself, I found that the shifter unit where the selector shaft was not moving freely vertically not finding the nuetral position. Lubed around the joints it seemed to help but it seemed like the seal around was dried up of lube. After taking it out, lubed somewhat it seemed to find neutral on its own now. Next time around I will be bathing it with lube for a day and report back.
Undo cable at the shifter unit one at a time and slide the end of the cable in and out by hand. See how easily it moves around. Shifter is simple pivot it will hardly cause binding on its own unlike at the shift unit where things have to rotate around a collar or a seal.
Ditto on the shift unit. After trying that out myself, I found that the shifter unit where the selector shaft was not moving freely vertically not finding the nuetral position. Lubed around the joints it seemed to help but it seemed like the seal around was dried up of lube. After taking it out, lubed somewhat it seemed to find neutral on its own now. Next time around I will be bathing it with lube for a day and report back.
#10
#11
To me this sounds or seems more like a failing slave cyl. They are in the 60 dollar range and are known to be kinda junky.
Easiest way to check on them is remove the splash sheild and pull back the rubber boot on the slave cyl fastened to the front of the trans and see if it is wet
If you find fluid you have a bad slave and this would keep the clutch from fully disengaging leading to the problem described above.
Easiest way to check on them is remove the splash sheild and pull back the rubber boot on the slave cyl fastened to the front of the trans and see if it is wet
If you find fluid you have a bad slave and this would keep the clutch from fully disengaging leading to the problem described above.
#15
Well, to try and understand the difference engine on or off would make, I tried shifting as usual with engine on and clutch in, and it was stiff. Then I turned off the engine and left the clutch out, and shifting was MUCH easier. So, I'm leaning toward a weak slave that isn't fully disengaging the trany gears. Make sense?
#16
I replaced the clutch master and slave cylinders and bled with the slave compressed as recommended. It took a least 50 cycles of push & hold clutch pedal/loosen bleeder/tighten bleeder/release pedal, but finally got the air out and clutch to disengage. I double-checked while the front tires were off the ground they didn't turn while the clutch was depressed.
However, when I got back in after it sat in the parking lot at >100F degrees all day, shifted to Neutral, depressed clutch and started, it was still tough to push shifter into R or 1st.
I looked at the clutch line parts diagrams on-line, and noticed there is a 1 foot rubber section between the steel lines that go to the slave. So, my thought is my car's 8 year old rubber section is expanding/stretching when pressurized while it's very hot outside, and causing the slave to not fully extend and release the clutch plate.
Does this sound plausible? Any other thoughts?
However, when I got back in after it sat in the parking lot at >100F degrees all day, shifted to Neutral, depressed clutch and started, it was still tough to push shifter into R or 1st.
I looked at the clutch line parts diagrams on-line, and noticed there is a 1 foot rubber section between the steel lines that go to the slave. So, my thought is my car's 8 year old rubber section is expanding/stretching when pressurized while it's very hot outside, and causing the slave to not fully extend and release the clutch plate.
Does this sound plausible? Any other thoughts?
#17
So you have new slave and new master, with NO air in the line (I know exactly what you mean about bleeding, replaced a slave cylinder and it was a total PITA to bleed the dang thing!).
If it is only difficult in first and reverse but everything else is fine now whereas before they were all stiff, then perhaps its fixed..
Have you compared to another MINI? Unless its OMG I'm about to break something stiff then it could just be normal, especially if 2-6 are smooth now. First gear will always be tough to go into until the vehicle is at a stop, unless you match engine revs with vehicle speed when shifting into first. Reverse requires more force than the rest of the gears on my tranny as well but all within tolerable "its just the vehicle" quirkyness.
If it is only difficult in first and reverse but everything else is fine now whereas before they were all stiff, then perhaps its fixed..
Have you compared to another MINI? Unless its OMG I'm about to break something stiff then it could just be normal, especially if 2-6 are smooth now. First gear will always be tough to go into until the vehicle is at a stop, unless you match engine revs with vehicle speed when shifting into first. Reverse requires more force than the rest of the gears on my tranny as well but all within tolerable "its just the vehicle" quirkyness.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RobbyD
MINIs & Minis for Sale
11
01-29-2019 01:22 PM
MINI Stupor
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
3
10-01-2015 11:36 AM