Just told by Scottsdale Mini dealer my 2008 MCS with 59,000 miles needs an engine replacement caused by a broken spark plug that damaged the cylinder head and was told the cost of repairing the head due high labor hrs it will be be almost the same cost replacing it Mini re-manufactured engine. I just spent about $1700 last two weeks before the spark plug problem to have the intake walnut shell blast to clean the carbon, water pump, water pump pulley and timing chain tensioner and valve cover gasket. Contacted Mini USA before about the carbon deposit, water plump and timing chain and received no help and contact Mini USA today and told them about my engine failure was told they will take 3-5 days to have decision by told chances are not good what she told me as next to none Mini will provide any help to repair my engine and she told me I should purchased the extended warranty and they don't cover any damage beyond the normal 50,000 miles coverage.

Only help offer I've received was from the Scottsdale service manager willing to reduce the price of replacing the engine for $6000.

How many you guy know someone or have similar type of engine failure caused by a broken spark plug? How was your out of warranty dealing with Mini USA.

 

How did the spark plug break? By itself?

 

Before going further with this, you want to get a plausible chain of events that caused a "broken spark plug" to require engine replacement. If the only issue is that the spark plug is seized in the head, it should be repairable by removing the head and using a thread insert - this is not likely to be terribly cheap since you have to pull the head and have machine work done, but you don't replace engines because one spark plug is seized. (I'm not really sure what a "broken spark plug" means.)

Off hand, I'd be very suspicous that this problem is related to the work you just had done.

You don't sound like you're experienced with dealing with the service people and understanding the technical issues. Is there a car-savy friend or associate you can get involved to help you? If not, perhaps you can go through in more detail exactly what has been going on which required the original repair, who did the work, and the events leading up to the latest problem.

Since you're not far out of warranty, I'd definitely be escalating your case within Mini, but first you need to get a handle on what happened.

- Mark

 

I don't have much info how the spark broke other than my nephew was driving the car from Chino to Arizona and noticed the check engine light come on and have the car tow to Mini of Scottsdale.

About three weeks ago my yellow check engine light came on and Mini Ontario and was told excessive carbon caused engine missed fire, water pump leaks, timing chain stretched was quoted $4200 to repair the above. Contacted Mini USA and was told it take 3-5 days for a decision if they will provide any assistance. Five day went Mini USA never called. When I contacted them was told due to one of service visit my oil was low and my claim was denied. Decided to have the carbon blast and my SA from Ontario suggested I should fix the timing chain stretch first and I found SIM110207 and have my mechanic installed the P/N P/N11317607551. The next day Mini Ontario did the Walnut shells blast. The following day my mechanic installed the water pump, pump pulley and drive belt and valve cover gasket and I've asked my mechanic and they did not remove the spark plugs.

Drive the for few days and it ran fine and last Sunday my nephew drive it from Chino to Arizona and noticed the check engine light came on and have the car towed to Mini Scottsdale yesterday and was told the cylinder head was damaged (valve was damaged) by a broken spark plug and they could repair the head but the cost is almost the same as installing a re-manufactured engine.

Called Mini USA yesterday ask what Mini can do was told don't expect any help from them due the car mileage of 59,000 and told if I expected Mini USA cover the repair I should purchased the extended warranty but they will take 3-5 days to review and give me a decision.

I don't have much option with or without Mini USA assistance I will have Mini of Scottsdale replace the engine for $6000. The last few weeks I have spent $1700 for the carbon blast,water pump, pump pulley, belt and tensioner and $6000 more for a engine. I told the Mini USA customer assist manger that took my call yesterday Mini USA is not making a reliable product and failed to support it and they just say its a mechanical thing and some time they failed by for a 3-years old car and 59,000 miles you would not expected this much major problems.

 

Sounds like the engine ate the spark plug tip? I've had this happen in a Jeep before, but that was not such a big deal, I removed the tip and kept driving, then again 4.0L tolerances were a bit more... lax... than MINIs.

 

If the spark plug failed, go after the manufacture. I worked in the Auto parts field and this is what I have done in the past to help my customers with great success. It will take patience and getting to the right people. Don't accept no for an answer.

 

I had holes burned in 2 of my valves on the same cylinder last May and the dealer supected is was because of a cracked spark plug. They replaced the entire head all under warranty (at 15,000 miles). I don't know what it would have cost, but I'm sure it would have been thousands.

 

Contacted NGK today was told they only deal with after market not OEM and only way to file a claim is from OEM to OEM in this case Mini USA need to file a claim to NGK Europe. I hope Mini USA to do some goodwill and file a claim to NGK and provide some assistance to repair or replace my engine.

 

Get to upper management and have them assist. Make sure you copy your dealer and your dealer copies you on all correspondences to NGK. Keep a paper trail. If these were installed at the dealer or factory, they should have no problem helping on this IMO.

 

I'm not very familar with exactly how this walnut blasting carbon removal is done, but I'd be very surprised if at some point they don't remove the spark plugs, just so they can turn the engine over easier if not for another reason.

I hate to accuse without good information, but the idea that you had all this work done and a few days later a spark plug randomly happens to fail and damage the engine is a hell of a conincidence. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the spark plug (or something else) was damaged during this earlier maintenance and is the cause of this new failure.

I'm still not groking how a remfg engine is being recommended over simply removing the head and repairing the damage.

My suggestion at this point would be to get a good indepedent mechanic to evaluate the paper trail and look at the car. It sure sounds like you're royally being raked over the coals by the dealer that did the original repairs, by the dealer now recommending a new engine, or perhaps both.

Is the car still under warranty? If so, I'd like they're precise explanation of why this isn't covered. I hope you can get some satisfaction with Mini USA.

What a mess.

- Mark

 

When a good tech or service department finds something like "Excessive carbon build up" they need to determine why it happen and make sure they fix the problem that it wont happen again.
To many things that cause excessive build up, from ether lack of maintenance,pcv,defected spark plug or something else, idk im just speculating.

I don't know why your mechanic or Ontario Mini would not removed the plugs to check them out. I know any decent service dep or tech would of removed the plugs to check the carbon build up or hell even just to check them.

Now you said that Ontario Mini clean your valves i am assuming using walnut shell , they should of replaced the spark plugs and that is something i would of done. I don't know much about Minis yet but i do know about engines and no matter what they should of replaced your spark plugs.

Some one dropped the ball and i think you should investigate what happen as this seems like it could of been avoided.

You probably had something similar to this http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-338293.html

Good luck R_G

 

The other thing that will destroy a valve and subsequently the spark plug is if it gets hit by the cylinder head if someone redlines the engine. Although the Mini has an electronic rev-limiter, downshifting to the wrong gear can still result in the piston head slapping the valve.

Since I have filed for a goodwill claim on a Mini that was 6 months out of warranty and was successful (in my case I had a pre-cat leak and failed turbocharger spindle unrelated to the oil feed), I can say that the most important factor in getting a "goodwill" applied is to establish very clearly what caused the problem. In other words, you need a clear chain of causality that an abnormal mechanical defect in the car is the source of the damage. Note that this would not include damage resulting from cheap or poor quality 3rd party spark plugs, for example.

If it's true that the walnut blast cleaning (not familiar with this technique) is the cause of the problem, then I am sorry to say your claim should be against those that did the cleaning and not BMW/Mini. In this case you should be talking to the dealer who used the technique and not Mini corporate who, I am sure, will remain unsympathetic to your situation. This is especially true since I have never seen BMW/Mini advocate walnut shell cleaning for carbon build-up on their cars.

 

That is the absolute worst way to deal with customers. "You should have bought THIS so sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry." Man, screw MINI USA.

 

To me it sounds very suspicious that you have the car worked on and walnut blasted then this. I would imagine if done incorrectly the walnut blasting could damage the spark plug.

Sorry to hear all this mess. Instances like this is what caused me to trade my 2011 in this week.

 

Get a 2nd opinion. $6k is crazy and i would need to have more than one person tell me the same thing before i spend that much. Its really rare to have to replace a whole engine, especially over a spark plug issue. Every dealer makes it seem like the mini engine is so special. Its not.

 

Yes, I did talked to the Ontario Mini service manger Eric and was told they did removed the spark plugs during the Walnut blasting the intake valves and never told me I need the spark plugs replace even though the car was within 2 thousand miles of the spark plug replacement schedule. Of course, they all denied have caused the spark plug to fail. My other problem the car is at North Scottsdale Mini in Arizona and I'm here in Chino, CA. Attached are some photos taken by North Scottsdale Mini.

 

Whoever touched your spark plug last created this problem most likely. That is pretty safe to say with the info you posted. You need to pay attention and be careful of the next actions. Bring it back to the folks who did the work last, otherwise they will never pay up. You have a very good case here if you don't screw it up.

 

I just had this exact thing happen to my 2009 turbo Saturn Sky Redline. Took my car into dealer because of a high RPM miss. They changed plugs. Minutes after picking car up it was running fine then dropped a cylinder completely. Turned around and took it back in. Diagnosis was tip had broken off spark plug, bounced around in cylinder damaging the piston, head, but not the cylinder walls (iron liner). Under warranty, they pulled the head and replaced the head. Replaced the piston.

My opinion.....These mechanics are doing something to the electrode. Possibly trying to index it? That involves bending the electrode to make it the correct distance from the plug. Maybe they dropped it? I've done that before, and cracked plugs.

I hate that this has happened, and you are going thru this. Somebody (other than YOU) is at fault here. Either:

1. The dealership mechanic for damaging the plug, causing it to fail.
2. The manufacturer of the plug. If the plug was one day old and came apart like this inside the cylinder, would they not be at fault then???

Good luck to you, sir.

 

Indexing is NOT setting the air gap (bending the electrode) indexing is where you align the open end of the spark plugs electrode within 45º of the inlet valve/s, this is quite difficult to do, and is not normally attempted, unless your very experienced, it does have it's advantages if you get it right!

 

Hard to tell from the pics but those plugs look like they had their fair share of deposits and wear. The same conditions that caused the excessive carbon build-up on the valves and ports (necessitating the walnut blasting) likely resulted in some level of build-up within the cylinders and on the plugs. Carbon deposits on plugs is not a particularly rare occurrence.

I suppose it's not a stretch to consider that some build-up on the plug might have created a hot spot that weakened the electrode. I can easily envision a grease monkey putting the engine back together and casually dropping the plug into its cavity when getting ready to thread it back in, damaging the already brittle electrode.

 

Can someone suggest a good non-dealer Mini repair shop in around Phoenix area with contact info. Maybe I can have the head repair less than North Scottsdale quoted, what I was told normally they charge $8000 for install a Mini re-manufactured engine with 2 yrs unlimited warranty but if they just repair the cylinder head its very labor intensive and the cost is not that much less than a re-manufactured engine. North Scottsdale service manager was willing to discount the cost of the re-manufactured engine for $6000 out the door. But it still $6000 on top I just spent $1700 for the Walnut shell blast, water pump, timing chains tensioner and valve cover gasket. This car becoming a money pit and my option are very limited. My second problem the car is in Phoenix and I'm here in California.

 

Sounds like to me they didn't clean the intake well enough after the cleaning, a walnut shell came dislodge from inside the intake, got sucked into the engine and broke the spark plug causing the damage.

 

You have some options that you can explore in order to help your self out.

Call Mini USA and tell them what's going on, when the customer calls and complains about service department or work that was perform to a car. Tell them why your car was in the shop(original problem of carbon deposit) for and that you think that it should of been covered under warranty because it is part of the emmission system that has a separate warranty 7 or 8 years I forgot (from the regular 50k warranty) and usually its a federal warranty to protect consumers. If they don't want to cover it , tell them if they can investigate the actuall work that was done and why did this happen.

Call other mini dealers and ask to quote you on replacing the head, try to get an idea of how much it should be.

Just try to get Mini involved , get the ball rolling and try to put pressure on the original dealer who did the work .

Hope it makes sense , typing on my phone and getting frustrated with my keyboard .

 

OOPS! Good Night, I knew that! I guess just typing faster than I'm thinking. Thanks for catching that so I don't end up confusing someone.

I was MEANING to say setting the GAP, which involves bending the electrode.

 

Just got a call from Mini USA my request for assistance was denied due to 9,000 miles above the 50,000 miles coverage and they didn't even pass my case to NGK. all I got from Mini USA was I should have purchased the extended warranty and any components failed after the warranty period is the customer responsibility and she said I should be thankful North Scottsdale is will give me a 25% discount from $8000 to $6000 for the re-manufactured engine. I asked for a written record of my contacts with Mini USA and if someone else I could take my case to and all she said is NO my case stop with her and no record can be given out. NGK said this is an OEM issue and only Mini can submit the case for review. Just for your info carbon deposit is not cover under emission warranty. I'm totally frustrated and just a lesson leaned how bad Mini/BMW don't support thier customers and stand behind their products.