I believe in most cases the chain slips a tooth or two on cam sprocket(s) and the pistons hit the valves. I do not think the chain usually breaks to cause the motor to grenade, though it obviously may after the "kablammo".

DOC

 

Part of the problem could lie with the plastic guide rails, which on oil starvation wear out and reduce the tension in the chain.

But what I don't understand is why the sound is only heard when the engine is cold... The chain should actually have more tension when cold, as it gets shorter. Based on that, I would assume that the whole problem has to do more with the oil and the oil-pump. But again I am just speculating...

 

You should really get up to speed on this by reading previous posts. The tensioner is more tensioned by oil pressure than its internal spring. So, this is why the more severe clatter is heard on cold startup (takes a little while to pump up). Filthy oil that is at a low level makes this all take longer. This is why turbo cars have the problem sooner, but Justas have the same components and eventually fail too if not caught in time. Other car makers use a similar system, but include a check valve so the tensioner does not lose much pressure in between starts. I plan to use an Accusump when my warranty expires and I am presumably just on a whole new timing chain assembly.

I was at 66.5 mm slack at 29K. I expect to be over 68 mm at 40K. Will go with "long" tensioner at that time unless dealer replaces whole system under warranty.

DOC

 

The sound is not just heard on cold starts. Several of us have only experienced it when our motor was at operating temp. When my guide rail failed, I had no rattle.

 

I dreaded coming into there and reading what some of your experiences have been and solutions/costs but I believe this is what I am experiencing with my 2009 girl :( (maybe)

Summary of my issues:

Last week I notices a clanky rattling coming from my engine at start up that would last maybe until I drove a few blocks in my neighborhood and then went away once I hit a major road and could speed up a bit. This seems to only happen in the mornings or after my car has been idle for awhile. (I live in Florida where it is currently 80 degrees all day)

After a few days of experiencing this I noticed that it is slowly getting worse in that the rattling noise stays a little longer and continues to make noise, although not as bad or loud, when I am at stop light.

What do you guys think?

Im going to contact my local Mini Service and see what advice they can give (aka they will tell me to bring it in)

 

You don't need the dealer to tell you to take it in. I will.
Make sure you check the oil level before bringing it in. If it is even a little low they will blame it on that.

 

I checked my oil during lunch and it was really low so I added about a quart to it and the noises stopped...
Im hopin' and prayin' that's all it was somehow, the moment it comes back though, she is going in to the doctors.

 

This is a common problem with the turbocharged MINI's -- and the oil level must be checked frequently to ensure it's within the operating range. Remember, the engine only holds 4+ quarts of oil -- total -- so if it's down even a quart, that's ~25% of the engine's capacity. The timing chain tensioner will back off (due to reduced oil pressure) when the oil level gets low.

 

Good to know. Im just glad im out 6 dollars instead of 1600

 

Read through alot of these posts and seem to be experiencing the same problems.
Took my 2007 S with 51,000 into the South Bay Mini in LA and was quoted $2,900. I have been out of warranty for 2 years now. I left a message at the dealership that I can't pay that and wanted to pick it up. They called back saying the could take $700 off for a total of $2200.
I called some independent shops in the LA area all quoting between $1000-$1700. One just called me back and suggest going straight to MINI USA and trying to get them to cover it since he had read about the timing chain issues in these MINI's.

Seems like the best MINI has done is cover half of the costs for those of you who have called MINI USA.

Any ideas?
Also, any one in the Southern California area dealt with this?

-Trevor

 

Monday evening I noticed oil leaks under my wife's 2009 Mini S Werks. On Tuesday I jacked it up and, with a flashlight, I could see that it was coming from the rear of the motor on the right side about halfway up. I called the local dealer and they got me in that same morning. After inspecting the car, they determined that the tensioner bolt had backed out and that was causing the oil leak. I had also noticed that the car had a rattle when it was first started cold. Sounded kind of like a loose exhaust shield.

After presenting me with a nearly $800 bill I asked for a number to call Mini corporate. My car has 25K miles and the warranty ended about two weeks ago. Talked with the corporate people and their first question was if the oil change services were up to date. Talked to the dealer the next day and they confirmed that corporate had verified that the service was up to date and discussed what the local dealer found. I was told that it would be 3-5 days before they would get back with me. When I told them I was going to have it fixed as there was no choice, they informed me that if I had it repaired before they gave their OK, they would not even consider my case. I hastily called the dealership and told them to hold off. They had given me a 2012 loaner car so I do have something to drive until they decide. Everyone has been very pleasant so far but, after reading this thread, I can see that I am not alone.

 

That is an odd price for repair. The most they are likely to charge for a tensioner is $75. (I bought the "long" one at my dealer for $35.) It is, at most, half an hour of labor to change. On the other hand, the lowest dealer price I have heard of for a full timing chain/guide replacement is $1800. Often, they charge more like @2200.

Did they mention anything about covering half the repair themselves?

DOC

 

I joined this group just to further address this issue. Mini needs to get in front of this issue. My situation may be a little different but the result was the same. Below is a portion of a letter to the President of Mini USA as well as to the President of the local dealer
Gentlemen:
I own a 2009 Cooper S with 50,700 miles that was recently serviced at XXXXX (Ohio Dealer). The car was towed in for service, at my own cost, on December 6, 2012 because of a coolant leak. I called Mini Roadside Assistance to have it towed for warranty service and I was informed that the car was 2+/- weeks outside of warranty coverage. The service department at XXXX informed me that the thermostat needed to be replaced as well as the valve cover gasket needed to be replaced. They quoted me a price over the phone of $480.13. I requested that they submit to Mini USA for warranty coverage. Reluctantly they did so and informed me after a few days that Mini would cover 50% of the repair costs. Rather than cause more of a delay, I acquiesced. My wife picked the car up at Dealer on December 29, 2012 and when it was brought to her in the service area she thought it sounded like a diesel but figured the technician that pulled it around would have informed her of a problem and once the car warmed up in the sound dissipated.
The car is driven by my wife every day. She told me on cold mornings, when the car was started that it sounded noisy but would go away after the car warmed up. On February 12, 2013 she asked me to start the car for her in the morning and for the first time I heard the noise and noticed that the check engine light came on. I had the car taken to local shop in Columbus. Local Shop has preformed service on our import cars when they are out of the warranty period. Upon inspection shop determined the timing chain top rail guide had deteriorated, the valve cover had wear from the chain rubbing, the tensioner needed to be replaced, the camshaft sensor needed to be replaced and the oil needed to be changed in hopes of removing all the broken pieces of the rail guide. The issue with the rail guides/tensioner is a known issue with this generation of Mini. When I informed shop that local dealer had replaced the valve cover gasket on or around December 13, 2012 they were shocked that Dealer/MINI wouldn’t have replaced the guide(s)/tensioner due to the fact this is a known issue. It is also curious that the car left Dealer with the symptoms of the broken guide.
I am requesting reimbursement in the amount of $967.79 for the repairs

 

What does the term "known issue" mean exactly, and how does it affect whether MINI should cover a repair for a car that's out of warranty?

MINI "knows" about every issue on every one of their cars, they pay for the repairs under the warranty. They know how many and how often and under what circumstances......so why does that matter?

What does the end of the warranty period mean? Seems to me, when the warranty ends, it ends....not carries on forever because someone "should have " done something earlier.

And someone needs to change the title of this thread, there is no MINI timing chain recall that affects 500,000 cars, the title is misleading and inaccurate.

 

Wow! Do a google search, it is pretty clear there is a design issue and the plastic guides break around 50,000 miles. That is a design flaw to me. I'm sure your opinion of the warranty period would changed if your head cracked at 50,001 miles and you had to pay for it. The same can be said for two weeks out of warranty. It is called Good Will.....

 

Well, if it says it on Google, it must be true then......and apply to every car MINI produced in this series, right?

And you can substantiate from your Google search just how many cars have this issue, and for some reason BMW is hiding it from the public? and there's a recall that affects 500,000 MINIs?

None of this is in fact true.....but I find it interesting that so many people become outraged by things like this that they read on the internet and jump right on the bandwagon.

But I think you'd have a hard time proving that all 2nd gen MINIs break their chain guides at or near 50K. I think you'd find a few for sure, but whether it's a statistically significantly number is very unlikely.


BMW knows exactly how many cars have been affected by this "issue", and at what mileage, so yes it's a "known issue", just like any other repair they've paid for.

Yes, if my engine failed at 51,000 miles I would not be happy, and I would certainly ask MINI to pay for it, under good will or any other way they chose.

But if they didn't, they would be well within thier rights, wouldn't they?

No one has answered any of my questions, which I find telling too......

 

Hello All!
This is my first time to the forum and after reading the posts about the Tensioner and timing chain issues, I am hoping that someone can provide some helpful insight/suggestions for my Mini issue. My heart and my wallet are breaking!
I have a 2007 S, with just over 41k miles. I bought the car used, and thus out of warranty. The service records from the previous owner were immaculate, and I have been very diligent with maintenance.
I took my car in for a front brake and rotor job and mentioned the recent "knocking sound" under the hood, knowing the oil level was fine and changed just 3 months before. Instead of getting my brakes done, I was told my tensioner failed, I need a new timing chain kit, and the rattling was all of the plastic pieces from the chain down in the oil pan. I, of course, thought it odd that any thing of this type should occur on such low mileage. $2500 quoted and told to come retrieve my car later that day. Unfortunately, after the second test run, they pulled my baby into the garage and now she is stuck in first gear. It has now been 3 days, and I have no word from my dealer about the condition of my car. After doing quite a bit of searching on the web, I have found that this tensioner has been an issue since 2007. Is this something that I can request Mini to help with? And if so, how do I do that?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
Thank you!

Weeping Mini Owner

 

Bought my 2007 MCS one year ago from a MINI dealer but no warranty. Shortly after taking possession noticed the rattling in the morning. I contacted the dealer and MINI Canada. This car , I might add, at one time had the entire motor replaced, I assume due to timing chain failure. Unfortunately the 2 year warranty had passed on that as well. MINI just kept saying "sorry, your warranty is over". Fair enough, but still a little miffed that a MINI dealer wouldn't have fixed this problem before selling the car, i.e.; replacing the tensioner. On inspection they told me that I needed a new tensioner, they would not or could not tell me the timing chain measurement. I opted to play it safe and had the whole assembly replaced. When they called me that it was done and ready to be picked up , I arrived and paid the hefty bill. Drove off with the car which immediately overheated. The thermostat had failed. I turned around and went right back, they good-willed part of the thermostat replacement.
I just picked my car up yesterday from having the turbo oil feed line replaced, and some other seal that was leaking. Another hefty bill.
Although this car has cost me some money in just a year, it is so much fun to drive and hopefully now that these things are replaced I can enjoy it worry-free, for a little while anyhow.
To sum up my long story, while I was not successful getting MINI to help me out, it is definitely worth a shot. You do want to have this taken care of soon, I worried every day before having the timing chain assembly replaced that it would destroy the engine.

 

So I just dropped off my 08 Cooper S to Steven Creek's Mini here in San Jose, CA.

It has the rattle and cold start issue, the SA told me that typical work for this problem is $2400.00!! Now they said they still have to take a closer look at the issue to make sure it is the timing chain issue, but i'm pretty confident from reading this thread and hearing some youtube clips of the same issue that it is.

So... I have a few more hours before they call me back with the news i'll update this as soon as i know the full work order/invoice.

If its over 2000.00 in work i'm bringing it to an independent shop for quote and if its still too high... i'm going to say goodbye to mini ownership.

Update: Dealer called said they couldn't reproduce the noise, so they are keeping it overnight. Will know the result tomorrow morning, they said if they can't reproduce the noise, they will go ahead and measure the timing chain length to see if it needs replacing as well.

Update: Dealer called this afternoon... they are doing the fully monty timing chain guide, chain, tensioner and some other misc. stuff, total will be right under 1900.00.

 

Add another Clubby to the list. My 2008 S developed the cold start rattle a couple of weeks ago. A week later, my wife took it on an early Saturday morning outing. When she came back out to the car and started backing out of her parking spot, the engine died and wouldn't restart. She had it towed home for me to look at. Engine won't turn over and the battery quickly depleted so that nothing electrical works on the car now. Have to save up some cash before I have towed to the dealer or independent. 70,000 miles, so out of warranty. I just hope it didn't tear up the engine.

 

For those of you who have had the unfortunate "Death Rattle" experience, I just got great news from my Mini Service Department! The $2500 replacement for the Timing Chain Kit due to the Tensioner failure, covered by MINI. This is great news! If you have had this issue, talk to your service guy!

However, the unexpected transmission issue (car stuck in 1st gear) that occurred, while in their possession, after the second test run when they replaced the timing chain kit, I have to cover. ($4500 - OUCH!!!) It certainly doesn't seem fair, since I was having no transmission issue until they replaced the timing chain kit. (Not sure about this uphill battle!)

 

Talk to your service guy, MINI is covering the cost for my Timing Chain Kit replacement!

 

Is this due to a general service bulletin or another reference document? Or is it still handled on a case-by-case basis? I swapped my original tensioner last week; the spring was really weak compared to the replacement. I'd like to replace the whole setup if it can be done by MINI.

2007 MCS Auto

 

Ok. I'll dip my feet in the pool here. Really just a matter of advice. My 2009 hardtop just passed about 73K. No problems whatsoever, but I always prefer to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to general maintenance issues. I read several posts here that mention Justas will eventually have the same issue as the S regarding timing chain issues, just takes a bit longer. Cary just went in for service last weekend (again, no issues reported at all - clean bill of health). I'm going in tomorrow to have them reset the service indicator because they forgot to when I took it in - may sound like an obvious question, but should I be concerned here and request in the near future the service department inspect the timing chain tensioner, etc. to ensure no problems are in the horizon? Initially, I never thought this would be something I needed to worry about at all. I certainly don't want to find myself reacting to something that can be far more costly if there's a catastrauphic failure if it's a well known problem. However, at the same time the last thing I need to do is become paranoid...I know there's quite a few R56s that passed 100k with no issues either....thanks in advance

 

I'm at 99,000. Mini replaced my thermostat housing at 16,000.Aux water pump at 30,000.Cleaned the head at 50,000. Timing kit at 60,400 and oil pan. If you keep up with maintence, you should be ok. Now its time to reseal the oil pan.