I've been teaching my wife to drive manual recently. She's been doing pretty well, but we had a minor mishap in a busy parking lot a few days ago.

Basically she stalled it in first and then tried twice to start the car in first gear while pressing the brake (other cars were waiting, she got nervous and forgot to press the clutch in). Since my MINI is a swap from a CVT, the starter will turn without the clutch pressed. So the starter was trying to turn the engine and tranny in first, but the brake was keeping it from doing so. She got really embarrassed, so I drove home.

When first driving off, the clutch was slipping a little - something was definitely off. I pumped it a few times and everything was almost back to normal, except the engage point is now higher on the clutch than before.

Was something damaged to cause a higher catch point? Did the incident just take a few millimeters off the clutch making the catch point higher?

What do you think?

 

How many miles have you got on this clutch?

I believe the clutches on the Minis are self-adjusting so the bite point doesn't really change over time. This is also the reason as to why you can't adjust the bite point on these cars. If the bite point changes, generally it means the clutch release springs are in bad shape.

I had a clutch go (due to a defective bearing) on my 2009 Clubman and drove it (albiet very gently) for 8 days with a badly slipping clutch (dealership didn't have a service slot ). Bite point didn't change, but engagement felt "poor" and "soft".

What surprises me is that you suggest the starter will actually turn with the clutch engaged. The starter spins the flywheel to start the engine, but with the clutch engaged, the flywheel should be trying to spin the wheels. Basically it's trying to drive the car. Was the starter actually turning the engine over?

Did you check the clutch fluid reservoir (on the Mini clutch and brake fluid are in a shared reservoir). I'm wondering if the slave cylinder is leaking or something. However, you seem to think it's the clutch slipping which - in my opinion - would mean it's time for a clutch job.

 

Thanks so much for the response. The clutch has only been in for about 2000 miles - basically brand new!

The starter was trying "drive the car" as you mention, but the brakes were holding it back.

I did check the brake/clutch fluid reservoir and there was no loss of fluid. I'll continue to check it regularly.

The more I've though about what happened, I may have an alternate explanation for what felt like slipping:

Because the car stalled twice in quick succession and I'm not sure how much gas she giving it as it stalled, it's possible there was some extra fuel left in the cylinders when I first started it and drove away. This could cause the RPMs to randomly dip and rise for a few seconds until engine management was back to normal. This actually makes a lot of sense because if it was slipping I would expect the RPMs to rise beyond expectation, then back to normal, then rise, etc. But if I remember those seconds correctly, the opposite was happening - they were dipping and going back up to normal for a few seconds until finally settling to normal behavior while pulling away.

Your mention of the release springs inspired me to do a little more in-depth reading on clutch operation. With a better understanding of all the components at work, I think it's possible the drive straps that connect the pressure plate to the clutch cover were slightly bent by the incident, thus causing a higher bite point. If these are bent to an extreme, the clutch will not disengage at all. If they were bent, here's to hoping they don't bend any more!

Exedy has some great info. on their site for clutch troubleshooting and operation:

http://www.exedy.co.uk/index.php?mai...shooting_guide

http://www.exedyusa.com/multimedia/s...ndamentals.pdf

 

On second thought - I was mixed up with what's meant by engage/disengage (disengaged, the engine and tranny are not locked together), so I don't think it's the drive straps after all.

Might be slightly damaged torsional springs or stop pins on the springs though.

Since the car is driving fine now, just with a higher bite point, I'm going to try not to worry about it too much for now. (easier said than done!)

Will update with any developments...

 

Ah I see, with 2000miles on that clutch there's no way she destroyed it unless you smelled burning friction plate. The parts aren't that delicate. When the clutch is engaged (i.e. pedal out) the transmission is connected to the engine. When the clutch is disengaged (i.e. pedal pushed to the floor) engine and transmission are disengaged.

A change in bite point usually can be attributed to the springs, yeah.

If everything is okay and there are no changes in engine sound as you move the clutch pedal, then live with the higher bite point unless things get measurably worse.

If you really want to see if it's slipping, start the car, foot off the clutch pedal and apply the hand brake. Put the shifter into 3rd then start to slowly let up the clutch. The rpms should drop and the car should stall essentially immediately. If you notice _any_ rise in the rpms or the car doesn't stall right away, then you've probably got some issues with slipping.

 

No burning clutch smell this time. Only smelled it once the first time she started on a hill a few weeks ago. It was a good teaching point - that smell is why you don't ride the clutch for a few seconds at 3k RPM!

Haven't noticed anything else strange, no noises, etc. I'll try out your slipping test tonight.

As a side note, after this whole thing happened, I looked up various ways to teach someone how to drive a manual. We tried the Car Talk guy's method yesterday in a parking lot, and it went much better.

Basically the method is practice starting in 1st gear from a stop without touching the gas pedal. It really helped her focus solely on the feel of the clutch rather than getting overwhelmed with too many things to think about. It's also really easy on the clutch. If you ever have to teach someone how to drive a manual, I highly recommend it!