DIY For Timing Chain Replaement
#76
Just a couple of things to add to this excellent thread:
I did this job over two days (the weekend). I have a '09 MCS with an 11/08 production date. I started Saturday morning at 0700hrs and worked until 1900hrs, then Sunday from about 0830hrs until 1700 hrs. I reviewed MINIAdventure's video thoroughly beforehand. I felt relatively confident in what I was going to do.
I ordered my timing chain cassette from WayMotorWorks and it came with everything I needed, including new bearing bolts and a new (longer) tensioner. The kit description doesn't say so, but if you're wondering, all the washers and gaskets you'll need are included that you'll need.
Other things I ordered for the project:
There's been a lot of discussion (even among MINI mechanics) about whether or not to use an oil pan gasket or PermaTex Ultra Black gasketgoo. I went with a gasket and I haven't experienced any leaks. Make sure you thoroughly clean the mating surfaces with just an adhesive cleaner and a soft cloth. I got mine at RMEuropean.com, and I also ordered a new camshaft position sensor and a new crankshaft position sensor from them. The N14 engine only has one camshaft position sensor (on the intake cam). The N12, N16, & N18 have one for each cam.
I changed the spark plugs also. I figured they were coming out anyway, so why not?
Things that I would like to note:
The old crankshaft bolt has a washer, but the new one does not, and it looks a little shorter. But if you put them side by side and look from the shoulder of the new bolt to the tip & compare it to the shoulder from the washer to the tip of the old one, you'll see that they will extend the same distance into the engine block.
TAP the new crankshaft seal into place. I was surprised at how little force it took to move it a millimeter at a time.
I ordered a ~$50 timing kit on Amazon. I hand to grind down the tip of the exhaust lock to get it to fit, and I had to grind a few thousandths of an inch off of the openings of both to get them to fit over the squared-off sections of the camshafts. NOT A LOT- I wasn't trying to make them fit over a cam that wasn't in time (mine were just a little out of time), but just enough to make them fit when the cam was straight up and down. I also had to grind a little off the circumference of the crankshaft pin holding tool to get it to fit into the hole. But I saved $200 over the cost of the MINI branded kit.
If you just follow MINIAdventure's 3-part series step for step, it really does just walk you through the whole process. You shouldn't have any problems with the job, and shouldn't make any mistakes. It's really good. A couple of things to add, though:
In the video, He doesn't really mention how that crankshaft holding pin kind of slips in. Once you have the pistons/camshafts in the right place (use the skewers, or stiff wires, and look at your camshaft markings), you may have to move the crank just a little bit back & forth while putting the holder pin in. I used a breaker bar, it turns really easily, and kind of "felt" when the hole went by the pin. Once you "feel" it tap the end of the pin, you'll be able to tell where the hole is and slip it in. You'll have to put the pin in and out a few times over this process, so you'll get pretty good at it.
He also says that the torque on the crankshaft bolt is torque + 100 degrees. I take it that this used to be the spec. It is now 36.9 ft-lbs (50 Nm) + 180 degrees. It's a lot of force, but not that hard to do with a breaker bar and a torque-angle gauge.
He doesn't specifically mention when to put the new tensioner in, but you should do it at the same time as the new cassette. Otherwise, your timing chain will slip when you're trying to rotate the engine to check the timing. Don't ask me how I know. It was hard to get in at first, but if you move the timing cassette piece it presses against, you'll feel the difference and it will screw right in. Torque it to 59 ft-lbs (80Nm).
The only other thing I can think of is that there is a process to turning the engine over and adjusting your timing. Once your new cassette is in, and the tensioner replaced, and everything torqued down to Stage 1, you remove the cam locks and the crankshaft pin, and turn the engine over four revolutions. I just used a Sharpie to mark a point in the crankshaft hub and the block to keep count. Once you turn it 4 times, you put the crankshaft pin lock back in, your camshaft locks back on, and adjust the timing as shown in the video. Then you remove everything and do it again. You keep doing it until when you put the crankshaft pin in, the cam locks slide right on. When that happens you're perfectly in time. I had to do it twice, YMMV.
Also, I poured the first quart of new oil right on the timing chain after I installed the oil pan. I figured it would help it not be a dry start.
Really, that's about all I have to add. I thought the video(s) were very, very good. My engine started on the first try, And I have to say it has never sounded as good as it does now. Hope these additional notes are helpful to someone.
Sean
I did this job over two days (the weekend). I have a '09 MCS with an 11/08 production date. I started Saturday morning at 0700hrs and worked until 1900hrs, then Sunday from about 0830hrs until 1700 hrs. I reviewed MINIAdventure's video thoroughly beforehand. I felt relatively confident in what I was going to do.
I ordered my timing chain cassette from WayMotorWorks and it came with everything I needed, including new bearing bolts and a new (longer) tensioner. The kit description doesn't say so, but if you're wondering, all the washers and gaskets you'll need are included that you'll need.
Other things I ordered for the project:
There's been a lot of discussion (even among MINI mechanics) about whether or not to use an oil pan gasket or PermaTex Ultra Black gasketgoo. I went with a gasket and I haven't experienced any leaks. Make sure you thoroughly clean the mating surfaces with just an adhesive cleaner and a soft cloth. I got mine at RMEuropean.com, and I also ordered a new camshaft position sensor and a new crankshaft position sensor from them. The N14 engine only has one camshaft position sensor (on the intake cam). The N12, N16, & N18 have one for each cam.
I changed the spark plugs also. I figured they were coming out anyway, so why not?
Things that I would like to note:
The old crankshaft bolt has a washer, but the new one does not, and it looks a little shorter. But if you put them side by side and look from the shoulder of the new bolt to the tip & compare it to the shoulder from the washer to the tip of the old one, you'll see that they will extend the same distance into the engine block.
TAP the new crankshaft seal into place. I was surprised at how little force it took to move it a millimeter at a time.
I ordered a ~$50 timing kit on Amazon. I hand to grind down the tip of the exhaust lock to get it to fit, and I had to grind a few thousandths of an inch off of the openings of both to get them to fit over the squared-off sections of the camshafts. NOT A LOT- I wasn't trying to make them fit over a cam that wasn't in time (mine were just a little out of time), but just enough to make them fit when the cam was straight up and down. I also had to grind a little off the circumference of the crankshaft pin holding tool to get it to fit into the hole. But I saved $200 over the cost of the MINI branded kit.
If you just follow MINIAdventure's 3-part series step for step, it really does just walk you through the whole process. You shouldn't have any problems with the job, and shouldn't make any mistakes. It's really good. A couple of things to add, though:
In the video, He doesn't really mention how that crankshaft holding pin kind of slips in. Once you have the pistons/camshafts in the right place (use the skewers, or stiff wires, and look at your camshaft markings), you may have to move the crank just a little bit back & forth while putting the holder pin in. I used a breaker bar, it turns really easily, and kind of "felt" when the hole went by the pin. Once you "feel" it tap the end of the pin, you'll be able to tell where the hole is and slip it in. You'll have to put the pin in and out a few times over this process, so you'll get pretty good at it.
He also says that the torque on the crankshaft bolt is torque + 100 degrees. I take it that this used to be the spec. It is now 36.9 ft-lbs (50 Nm) + 180 degrees. It's a lot of force, but not that hard to do with a breaker bar and a torque-angle gauge.
He doesn't specifically mention when to put the new tensioner in, but you should do it at the same time as the new cassette. Otherwise, your timing chain will slip when you're trying to rotate the engine to check the timing. Don't ask me how I know. It was hard to get in at first, but if you move the timing cassette piece it presses against, you'll feel the difference and it will screw right in. Torque it to 59 ft-lbs (80Nm).
The only other thing I can think of is that there is a process to turning the engine over and adjusting your timing. Once your new cassette is in, and the tensioner replaced, and everything torqued down to Stage 1, you remove the cam locks and the crankshaft pin, and turn the engine over four revolutions. I just used a Sharpie to mark a point in the crankshaft hub and the block to keep count. Once you turn it 4 times, you put the crankshaft pin lock back in, your camshaft locks back on, and adjust the timing as shown in the video. Then you remove everything and do it again. You keep doing it until when you put the crankshaft pin in, the cam locks slide right on. When that happens you're perfectly in time. I had to do it twice, YMMV.
Also, I poured the first quart of new oil right on the timing chain after I installed the oil pan. I figured it would help it not be a dry start.
Really, that's about all I have to add. I thought the video(s) were very, very good. My engine started on the first try, And I have to say it has never sounded as good as it does now. Hope these additional notes are helpful to someone.
Sean
#77
#78
But I'm sure you're not the first person to do this job with the motor on a stand. If somebody from the forum doesn't answer you, maybe you could start polling some mechanics at dealerships. You usually have to get past the SAs, but the mechanics are usually pretty willing to help. Another idea is to check with your local MINI club. there's usually at least one gearhead.
S
#79
#80
Thanks guys. I’m defiantly going to lock the crank. Not worth the risk. It’s been a couple years since I’ve changed the timing set in one of these, does anyone recall if the lock hole is closer to the crank hub or further out closer to the starter teeth?
I’m thinking about buying a used one off of eBay and cutting it down to fit with my engine stand.
I’m thinking about buying a used one off of eBay and cutting it down to fit with my engine stand.
#82
Thanks guys. I’m defiantly going to lock the crank. Not worth the risk. It’s been a couple years since I’ve changed the timing set in one of these, does anyone recall if the lock hole is closer to the crank hub or further out closer to the starter teeth?
I’m thinking about buying a used one off of eBay and cutting it down to fit with my engine stand.
I’m thinking about buying a used one off of eBay and cutting it down to fit with my engine stand.
There are three balance dimples around the edge. The timing hole is on the right side, near the edge, at about the 2-o'çlock spot.
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ECSTuning (02-25-2020)
#83
Damn!!! I was hoping it was closer to the hub. I just ordered a used one for $35 but I’m not sure I can trim it enough to get it in between the stand and back of the block. I really hate the thought of doing A timing set change with it dangling from the hoist.
Guess I’ll have to figure something out.
Thanks guys.
Guess I’ll have to figure something out.
Thanks guys.
#84
On the R60 automatic, there is an exhaust clamp right before the flex pipe on the bottom of the flywheel housing that is held in by an e-torx 12, It has a metal plate that covers the flywheel locking hole. I cannot for the life of me get this off with a e-torx socket and a thin ratchet due to the exhaust. Rust state so the exhaust clamp is absolutely just on there and not coming off without cutting it. (which.. well.. I don't want to do really)
Anyone have this issue on their R60? any suggestions to get it off?
I ordered an e-12 wrench but it wont be here for a couple days and really would like to get the car done this weekend.
Previous owner did not take care of this car, was surprised at how discolored the cams were.
I do have all 4 cylinders at mid point, cam marks are direct up, and cam locking tool is on.. (had to file that a bit.. but we are good.)
I assume I still need to lock the flywheel? - I do have the bmw tool to hold the crank once I get those 3 bolts off the pulley. didn't think I would need it.. but ordered it anyways.
Edit:. Holy crap I got it.
i am so replacing this bolt with a normal one lol.
Anyone have this issue on their R60? any suggestions to get it off?
I ordered an e-12 wrench but it wont be here for a couple days and really would like to get the car done this weekend.
Previous owner did not take care of this car, was surprised at how discolored the cams were.
I do have all 4 cylinders at mid point, cam marks are direct up, and cam locking tool is on.. (had to file that a bit.. but we are good.)
I assume I still need to lock the flywheel? - I do have the bmw tool to hold the crank once I get those 3 bolts off the pulley. didn't think I would need it.. but ordered it anyways.
Edit:. Holy crap I got it.
i am so replacing this bolt with a normal one lol.
Last edited by geekd4d; 11-14-2020 at 04:38 AM.
#85
So after replacing timing chain. I had messed up the timing somehow. Anyways I sent the cylinder head to the machine shop due to bent valves. I just received it. My question is when I set the timing for the cams and lock it in place with the cam lock 2 of the exhaust valves are open on cylinder one. If this is correct please let me know before I start assembling. I'll appreciate the response soon.
#86
#88
Instead of trying to understand cam timing sequences, think about basic cam operation --- valves are opened when the cam lobe engages the rocker arm / valve stem. If the cam locking tools are installed properly, any cam lobe engaging a rocker arm / valve stem will cause the valve to open. How far it opens depends on which part of the lobe is touching, i.e., top of the lobe sitting on the arm / stem will cause the valve to be fully opened. If the valve is open and the cam lobe is nowhere near the arm / stem, you probably have a bent valve, keeping it from closing. So, if the engine operated correctly before being repaired, AND the cams were not changed, the probability that the cams are correct is very high. Don't even think about installing the head before the crank is locked with the proper tool.
I strongly suggest you find a well-documented / popular procedure for changing the timing chain, and follow it closely --- no short-cuts. Most of them have visual aids to help determine cam alignment and other bits of helpful info, for re-assurance.
I strongly suggest you find a well-documented / popular procedure for changing the timing chain, and follow it closely --- no short-cuts. Most of them have visual aids to help determine cam alignment and other bits of helpful info, for re-assurance.
#89
There are indicators on the cam shafts (exhaust, OUT and fuel IN). I would line this up as in the video by MiniAdventure, link here
Generally put the cylinder head back on (I did not go this far), then line up the cam shafts as in the the instruction by mini adventure. Once they are lined up secure them using the locking tool and put the time chain on, tensioners etc. But the details to follow are in the video. Another tip I use 5W40 oil now, not 5W30, I have a R56 N18B16A engine (the updated one for the R56), I only have 50,000 miles on it, and I did the timing chain at 31,000, because I was slightly paranoid. I did the timing chain on 2 different minis, one with the earlier engine and one with the latest R56 N18B16A engine. Timining chain was not broken nor were the slides, but it is a good thing to do, even though the problem seems to be fixed on the later N18B16A engine (2012) the tensioner at the back of the engine (facing the passenger) was sticking. Hope this helps.
#90
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