(On 7/17/12, I updated this first post to add some information and to delete a few snarky comments. I left the facts alone as they are what will help others with this problem. Anything added on 7/17 will be in italics and parenthesis.)

Technically, MINI USA doesn't need to cover my repair, but I doubt that anybody reading this will agree with them. So let's start from the beginning:

August 8, 2011:

My airbag light in my 2002 R50 (purchased used in 2007 from MINI of Hawaii) had been on for a couple of weeks and this was the date of my appointment to have it looked at. Don't remember how long it was between the light coming on and when I booked the appointment. Did some research and discovered that there had been an extended warranty issued for 31,500 2002-2003 MINIs that trigger the airbag light due to high resistance in part of the wiring harness. More on the NHTSA/safercar.gov website at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/defects/; look under the "Defect Investigations Summary" for campaigns PE5053 and DP05006.

Seattle MINI finds the airbag light fault is caused by the high resistance defect in the wiring harness (on the left side) and repairs or replaces the connectors with the high resistance. Faults erased, airbag light off.

August 9, 2011:

Post this extended warranty fix at northamericanmotoring.com (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...003-minis.html) to help others out, since the extended warranty didn't seem to be common knowledge. Helped a few people out this way.

June 5, 2012:

Posted on the previously mentioned thread that my airbag light was back on. Again, not sure how long it was on before I posted. End of school, end of Little League season, too busy to make an appointment. (I thought that the 10 year warranty started from the build date- 3/15/02- so what was the rush to make an appointment? Surely they'd offer a goodwill fix since this was clearly one of the cars with the bad connectors, and the warranty ended just a couple of months previously...)

June 25, 2012:

Make appointment with Seattle MINI; get confirmation on June 26th. Appointment is for July 10, earliest day that I can get in. Happen to have that day off from work already.

July 10, 2012:

Service advisor was Sasa Losic. Charged $137.10 for diagnosis; "Tech found code for Right side front airbag. Not covered by warranty in service day 06/09/2002. Explained to customer that this repair is covered only for 10yrs or 150k. Repairs declined by customer". Of course I declined the repairs as it was something that should have been covered by MINI USA since I'm less than a month (oh, it's the build date) out of the extended warranty period; the light had been on since before the 10 year period was up and the other (left) side had already gone bad. This was obviously one of the cars that ended up having bad parts installed. Both the service advisor Sasa at Seattle MINI (877-401-6464) and Mark at MINI USA (888-275-6464) told me that the warranty is for 10 years from the date of the car being in service and not one day more and refused to budge on this.

Mark even told me that he was a service manager there and that there was nobody else I could speak to about this. Mark did offer to speak to the service manager at Seattle MINI, but said that was going to be pointless as he would also decline to repair this under warranty. (I do not remember being offered the opportunity to talk to Service Manager Ryan while I was at Seattle MINI that morning.)

Was going to call back today (7/11) but thought better of it, as I shouldn't need to grovel to get safety related warranty work done. Should I have given them a second chance? I kind of thought I did when I called MINI USA.

(July 13, 2012)

(Ryan from Seattle MINI calls at about 4:30 in the afternoon. Wants to meet with me; we set up a meeting for Monday at 11:30 am.)

(July 16, 2012)

(Meet with Ryan. He offers to do the airbag connector repair and make sure the warning light is off. They would also keep the $137 diagnostic fee. I agree to this, and they do the repair that day while I wait, repairing the wiring harness and clearing the airbag fault memory.)


Val

 

Really?

How long should they warrant their car to suit you?

Are parts just supposed to last forever?

This is something that's going to be a bigger headache for everybody with an older car, these electronic and safety systems are going to fail, and when they do it will probably be prohibitively expensive to fix them, much like it is to replace a CVT on an early Justa when it fails.

So, what are you going to do with your car, just drive it with the light on? trade it in? Fix it?

 

Count me as one of those who sides with MINI on this.

 

yeah sorry to say but I'm on MINI's side on this one.... cleary it was extended for 10years already. which means if its been on since before the appt. you should have gotten in before the time was up especially if you've known about this. My light is on right now too, but guess what I'm over the 10yr mark too!!! Oh-well, my R53 will forever be mine!!!!!

 

Gotta go with MINI on this one as well. Sorry...

 

Been a dealer tech for a handful of years and I've seen similar situations handled in different ways depending on a multitude of factors:

1) The loyalty of the customer to the brand:
It's true, the more business you do with your MINI dealer, the more they will be willing to help you out when something like this happens. If you only show up for warranty work, plus didn't buy the vehicle from that dealer, then they aren't making any money off of you and really owe nothing back to you for any reason. Remember, dealers are owned by people, individual business owners who need to make their own profits, NOT by MINI. You scratch their back, they scratch yours.

2) The date the fault was set:
As far as Audi and Mercedes vehicles go, there is a way to look up the date a fault was triggered, or at the very least the mileage. There have been similar instances where a fault was set and a customer couldn't get into the dealer for a few weeks, whatever. You did contact your service department so they have recorded the date that you notified them of the fault, however it is your mistake to have driven on it for any period of days/weeks without notifying them immediately, especially if you knew the warranty was set to expire. IF the fault was set and recorded prior to the date of the end of warranty, then YES- they should feel obligated to help you out with the repair. If the date of mileage set on the fault is out of warranty, then they owe you nothing, unless you are a loyal customer (refer to #1).

3) The profitability of the dealership/service manager:
Because you are now past the warranty date (and or mileage?), MINI will not be ''eating'' this repair. Therefore, any help you will get will be from the dealership/service manager. I have worked at shops where the Service manager is given a salary, and on top of that salary he is also given an allowance for what is deemed in the industry as "Goodwill". It is up to the managers discretion to use part of that goodwill to 'help out' with repair costs in circumstances like this. If said service manager has already gone through a substantial portion of that allowance, it would be understood that they would become more and more strict about who would get help with a repair. This is where the loyalty of the customer comes back into play.
Also, a dealer that is struggling with profitability simply may not be able to offer such goodwill services to its customer, whereas a booming dealership would obviously be able to afford such services. Goodwill is defined as taking a percentage off the parts prices or a percentage off the labor costs. Typically this will reduce a customer pay job down to what warranty would pay. YES there IS a difference between warranty labor time and customer pay. Again, any such goodwill offers would factor in the allowance available/profitability of the dealership and the customer's loyalty.

4) The reaction of the customer:
Rude and aggressive customers that demand free stuff don't ever deserve it. Service managers will always feel more inclined to help a customer that would like to pay for a service but can't afford it, especially when safety is concerned. A nice customer that understands they are responsible for repair costs not covered under warranty that ask for help with the repair are much more likely to get it than one that is irate and demanding.


Essentially what it all boils down to is Customer Loyalty to that particular dealership.

Not knowing the mileage or date the fault was set, your loyalty to that dealer, your response/demeanor towards the service department or the ability of the dealer to even be in a position to financially help you leaves me to side with them.

If you had something go wrong a month out of the original warranty, there is a lot more leverage for help. But to have something go wrong a month out of an already doubled warranty coverage doesn't really warrant any special treatment.

Either way, I would hope that you reconsider having the repair performed. By neglecting it, you are neglecting the safety of anyone who has to sit in your passenger seat. God forbid you have an accident with a friend in that seat and they become seriously injured or die because the airbag did not deploy, you would be liable in a civil suit...

 

Are you serious? You decided to buy a vehicle that is well-known to have many issues and is generally unreliable (as many first model year cars are, not to mention one made by BMW in the early 2000s), and you drove for a month with your airbag light on, knowing the warranty will expire? That means in the event of an accident, none of the 6 airbags will deploy.

P.S. I work for a dealership, and we had a customer come in a few weeks ago because he found out that a recall repair issued in 1975 had not been performed on his vehicle. We gladly performed the repair, because the manufacturer backed us. MINI should have recalled the parts if the problem was really that serious and widespread.

Anyways, I wish you luck with your car and many days of happy motoring ahead.

 

VAl, I really feel for you.
I can see both sides to this issue.

MINI is under no obligation to fix the problem as the warranty expired.
No recall was ever issued on this part.
It's frustrating because had the car been taken in or the dealer notified when the light came on it would have been covered.
The lack of urgency is puzzling, especially in light of your own research on the warranty issue.
Life can get crazy though and people are overextended.
It's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees.

Post #6 above, by ERIK06MCS is very good and explains the dealer/MINI's side of issues like this.
Point #2 is interesting.
Perhaps the dealer doesn't have the date the fault was set.
However, there is your post to this board on June 5 stating that the light was on and wondering if the warranty is still in effect. It is documentation that the problem occurred before the warranty expiration date of June 9. It's not much, but it's something.

JMHO, but some thoughts-
You would not be groveling at this point to calmly ask for some assistance on the repair. Maybe this or another dealer will be willing to help you by offering a goodwill discount towards a repair. Print out your post of June 5 if they don't already have it. Point out that you are brand loyal and active in your local MINI club as well as on this forum. Make an appeal to the General Manager of the dealership.

I wish you well and hope that you get the car repaired soon, one way or another, especially if your child is a passenger in this car.
Good luck!

 

Like Littlewing, I feel for you, but your post title is not accurate. MINI honored their ten year warranty. You made an appointment after the warranty had expired. It would be different had you made an appointment before the expiry and they couldn't get you in, but that wasn't the case. It's a ten year warranty, not lifetime.

 

My understanding is that whether the light is on the airbags will still operate (except, obviously, any airbag thats faulty)?

[QUOTE=JPR18;3548302]Are you serious? You decided to buy a vehicle that is well-known to have many issues and is generally unreliable (as many first model year cars are, not to mention one made by BMW in the early 2000s), and you drove for a month with your airbag light on, knowing the warranty will expire? That means in the event of an accident, none of the 6 airbags will deploy.QUOTE]

 

On the Volkswagens and Mercedes I've worked on, an airbag or SRS light (in red) means there is a fault somewhere in the system and the system has been disabled.

The only time a single airbag can be disabled is with the passenger seat occupancy sensor, or some cars have a seat bolster sensor that can deactivate the side airbag if the occupant is leaning on it.

 

I think that is part of the problem with this fault.
Maybe nothing is wrong, but maybe a lot is wrong.
You don't want to have an accident to find out if your air bags are working or not.

 

Seattle MINI Service Manager Ryan called this afternoon to discuss the situation. We're meeting on Monday at 11:30 am. I'll address some of your salient points later when I have more time but here's a quote from the NHTSA Defect Investigations Summary:

"BMW stated that, although the subject crimps were improperly manufactured, the crimp connection is still sufficient for the restraint system to deploy when needed. According to BMW, the electrical resistance levels in the subject vehicles can exceed the threshold that illuminates the air bag warning lamp, but they do not exceed a much higher limit in which deployment of the restraints may no longer occur."

This sounds to me like the airbag system will still work, as long as the only thing that is bad is these wiring crimps. But how will I or others know? This is why this should have been a recall.

Val

 

Thanks for the update Val.
I am really glad that you are going to talk with the SM.
I did read the NHTS documents that you posted, including the section that you quoted.
You are correct, there is no way to know if the air bag will deploy correctly or not and BMW admitted that the crimps were "improperly manufactured."

I wonder if there are any documented cases of these air bags failing to deploy in a crash?

This is an education for me as I don't understand how the recall process works.
I wonder why the investigation was closed?
Was it because BMW offered the 10 year warranty?

Good luck with this.

 

Sorry, but it still doesn't really matter. They honored the warranty on their end for 10 years and you didn't take the vehicle in when it came on as you were "to busy to make an appointment", so I still fail to see why MINI should work with you. They probably will, but frankly you have no leg to stand on.

It was closed, because MINI adequately responded to the issue extending the warranty. Not all of them failed and it was a low percentage, so no recall was needed. Simples....

I know people in those models that had accidents and all bags deployed just fine.

 

There was no safety issue. The airbags would still deploy properly. The problem was only causing a false positive airbag light to display. It would make you think there was a problem when there really wasn't one.

 

Putting aside all opinions on whether or not MINI should cover this,
how can the OP know that it's a false positive and not a true warning?

We have a gently used 10 year old Toyota that our teenage son drives.
The check engine light came on and we took it to our mechanic who discovered that there was a fault in the wiring to the light, but the engine was fine.
It was an expensive fix.
We were tempted to "fix" it with duck tape applied over the dash light, but didn't want to teach our son to ignore a warning signal.
It made me sick to pay so much to fix the warning light when the car itself was fine.
The wiring had been damaged by the previous owner spilling gasoline on it as he habitually "topped off" the tank. It was not due to faulty wiring on Toyota's part.

 

The OP wouldn't know, which is why the reasonable thing to do when an airbag light comes on is to get it checked out.

 

He can't... What he needs to do is take it in and get it fixed and he needs to pay for it as it is now out of warranty.

 

+1
for safety sake, just do it.
Mini did their part....offered to fix it a long time ago....but they cannot take responsibility for an item indefinetly....
Warrenty is now beyond the limit....so just a fact of life....you get stuck with it.
Things get old, break....you pay $$ to fox them. Still cheaper than years of carpayments. Fix it, be safe, enjoy the car.

 

OT, but that doesn't make any sense. If gas spilled outside the filler neck, it should run down the drain designed for that purpose. There shouldn't be any wiring (much less expensive wiring) that would be affected by spilling gasoline, much less topping off.

 

OT - Thank you for that! That's what I thought too, but that's what hubs told me the mechanic said. Anyway, the car belonged to my late father-in-law and hubs inherited it - or something like that. I try to stay out of his family business, so didn't press the issue. It was expensive though.

On topic - this issue is not as black and white to me as it first appeared.
I think it's a good thing that MINI is going to talk with the OP and I hope that they can help. Remember too that the OP has already spent $137 for a diagnosis alone.
BMW admitted to problems with the part. In lieu of a recall, perhaps a lifetime warranty on the defective part would have been more appropriate? IDK...
But, I don't think that a car should disintegrate just because it's 10 years old without good reason.

 

Is it all six airbags? I'm pretty sure the driver's side airbags will still deploy in an accident if the passenger light is on.

My light is on intermittently now. I rarely if ever carry passengers... sometimes I take my girlfriend to the grocery store, but that's about it. I wonder if MINI Canada will also extend the warranty for my '06 R50 seat mat sensor?



EDIT! Sorry, should have read the thread more closely, since no one but me is talking about seat mat sensors... whoops. That does seem to be my issue, as I can turn the light off/on depending on shifting my weight around in the passenger seat.

 

What isn't clear? The OP knew that there was a limited warranty of 10 years. The light came on in warranty and the OP failed to get it to MINI before the warranty lapsed thus he has to pay for it. Seems pretty clear to me and the OP coming here complaining is more of this self entitlement that Americans are starting to toss around more and more. If you noticed he certainly hasn't come back in to defend his position. A 10 year old car will have issues and depending on how it was driven and the environment that it is in could greatly reduce the reliability of it.

 

The OP has come back and stated that the SM called him and set up a meeting on Monday. There's not much more to say until then and he certainly isn't obligated to defend his position here. Sometimes it is appropriate for goodwill assistance out of warranty. It happens all the time. I expect to hear back when he has something to report.