Hi, First post here.

My son has a 2009 S that just decided not to start. It will crank over but that is it. One of the square relay modules in the engine compartment fuse box (The front one) is rapidly clicking during this time.

I'm not too mechanically inclined, but I did pull one of the plugs and don't see any spark when held to the grounded part to the engine.

Had a friend come over with his Snap On Engine Diagnostic Computer and hooked it up. We initially had several various faults concerning everything from the airbags to ABS, etc... I believe when we tried to actually read some more in depth, it would not communicate properly, so we attempted to clear out all of the existing ones, then start from scratch with the actual engine errors.

After that it was like it would not communicate with the ECU properly, (or it would communicate with the ECU, but that was not talking with other modules properly) The error code that appeared is C910: No Message Receiver Junction Box Electronics (JBE) Transmitter. Does this sound like the computer, ECU, is bad?

Always ran great and started great until then. The battery is the original, and we tried jumping it when it first happened thinking the battery might be low. I did charge it for over three hours yesterday, but no change on the car starting. We are about five hours from the nearest Mini service shop.

Thanks,
Travis

 

Battery is original? That's 7+ years! A marginal battery (even trying a jump), will cause all kinds of electrical problems. When my battery hits 4 years, I just go ahead and replace it as a PM item..

 

Well, I disconnected the original battery and substituted a known good one (non-mini, but greater capacity). Used jumper cables up to the mini's battery cables. Still no luck. Just cranks and the relay buzzes. I'm running out of ideas here. Hope a local shop can look at it, otherwise I'll have to pull it from Central Nebraska to Central Colorado to be serviced. Any other thoughts? Thanks.
Travis

 

Curious, did you test the battery before troubleshooting any other areas? Do you hear the fuel pump prime? You can definitely attempt to troubleshoot a no start issue without first checking the easiest component first. As stated, all sorts of weird issues can happen with your MINI with a bad battery. I've even seen more than a few times where jumping it wont work. I'd recommend getting the proper battery for your R56, installing it (registering the IBS unit if yours is equipped) and see what happens. If the issue continues, check the basics. Check for fuel and spark. Check out this thread HERE on NAM where an individuals situation sounds similar and it was a battery.

 

Hi, No the battery hasn't actually been tested (I measured voltage, but haven't actually taken it out to an auto place and let them load test it). The car initially died when my son was at school. We tried jumping it there had no luck and towed it home. Charged it several hours and tried again, no luck. Disconnected the battery completely and subbed one in with jumper cables to the battery cables. Again, nothing but cranking. I guess maybe I should just break down and buy one, from reading on here all of the electrical issues that can come from a bad Mini battery.

I do hear what I believe is the fuel pump running when I open the driver's door. Again, I, pulled a spark plug and don't see any firing when turned over.

Thank you for your reply. I'll keep the forum updated.

Travis

 

Well, we bought a new battery and installed it, but there is no change. I don't hear any fuel pump running either when I open the door. Honestly thought I did before. Double checked all my fuses in the engine compartment. Reseated the relays.

Not sure what you mean about registering the IBS unit. I will try to find something about that. (I looked it up after posting, and we don't have this on ours, thanks)

Thanks anyway.
Travis

 

Don't feel bad about buying a new battery, you were WAY past due. At least you eliminated that as the cause..

 

If the original battery , the jumper, and the substitute battery is capable of cranking the engine at normal cranking speed, ......why the focus on the battery as the reason for it not firing up?

 

Take a look at post #4 from Pelican Parts. I have also seen where even with a jump, it might not start with a marginal battery, especially since it was 7 yrs old. Happened to me..

It's not just Mini, a good battery is critical in new late model cars..

 

Glad you found the info about the IBS unit. If you don't have it, no need to register. Now, since the pump does not prime when you open the door I'd investigate further. You'll want to confirm the fuel pump has received the correct voltage when commanded ON by the fuel pump relay using a digital volt ohm-meter (DVOM). If the correct voltage is present, but the pump does not activate, it is likely faulty. Use the DVOM in conjunction with a wiring diagram to determine the correct terminals for testing. This info and more on how to test the pump can be found in our fuel pump testing article. It's on our site under MINI > Tech Info (tab at top) > R56 articles > Fuel Injection > Fuel Pump Testing (towards the bottom)

 

I suggest a quick and easy test with starter fluid sprayed into the intake, if it starts then you investigate the fuel delivery problem, if it doesn't start, then it's a problem that effects both the fuel delivery and spark, such as a cam or crank position sensor.

 

Hi Pelican, I really appreciate your replies. I will test this after I finish work today.

I am still somewhat confused as to why I wasn't getting any firing on my plug that I pulled though. I don't know anything about these Minis, but maybe something is preventing it from firing if it is detecting other problems?

Will post my results after I get them. Thanks again.

Travis

 

Could be what 1004ron said above. I'd maybe try to plug in and read faults again, maybe with a BMW/MINI specific scan tool, something like the Carly App. Also, check DME main relay as that will inhibit spark and fuel. Let us know what you find.

 

If the battery voltage was too low it would not crank normally and an ECU low voltage code should be present.

MINI's may be temperamental when it comes to batteries, but there should be some testing and diagnostics to confirm this is the cause of the failure to start.

 

I didn't find anything conclusive in that thread.

The OP tried a number of things and it just happened to start unexpectedly after he had the battery on a charger for a couple of hours.

I expect that when it initially failed to start the battery was near full charge by the normal operation of the engine.

 

OK, pulled the back seat out and checked the voltage on the pump connector. Nothing. Checked the fuse in the passenger compartment foot area with the gas tank on it, and it is good. Hooked up my jet ski battery to the two pins on the pump and I can hear it run.

I was curious where I can find this wiring diagram Pelican refers to?

Opened up the large hose that connects from where the air filter is and sprayed some starting fluid in towards where it goes in to the engine. For the briefest instance it felt like it fired. It was something besides just a normal crank.

That is where I am. I would really love to figure this out without the hassle of pulling it to Colorado. Thanks to both of you guys.

Travis

 

A couple of thoughts... If you power the fuel pump with the jet ski battery, will the engine fire?? If so you are dealing with a fuel pump input issue. If not, because you had mentioned you had no spark, it gets pretty crazy. The JBE is responsible for activating the fuel pump relay after it gets its signal from the CAS and DME and if you have faults for the JBE not communicating that could be an issue. Have you tried to perform a battery reset or hard reset for an hour or so?? Then reconnect to the scanner and try to start the car, then check the faults again. If you're REALLY lucky it might start after the battery reset. Let us know about the jet ski power test and the battery reset!

 

Hooked up the jet ski battery to run the pump. Allowed it to run for a minute or so, but no starting. Tried about three times to start it.

Again verified I have no spark.

Just disconnected the neg cable on the battery and will let it sit for an hour or so. I'll repost after trying again.

Thanks for bearing with me.

Travis

 

Reconnected the battery, but no luck. I will try to see if I can get my friend to come over and see if his diagnostic tool will read any differently after changing the battery and the other checks I have tried. Otherwise, I don't know any one else with the diagnostic equipment.
I will have to read up on just what the JBE, DME, and CAS are.
Thanks.
Travis

 

You should really disconnect the negative and positive terminal both and connect them by using a jumper wire for an hour. Many times you can fix odd BMW/MINI issues by doing this. Do you have a Bentley Manual? If not, it may be a good investment for now and the future. It has great wiring diagrams and DIY help. You might have a bad JBE, as the junction box is the gateway between the diagnostic tool and all the other modules on the network in the car. Hopefully, the reset will snap the JBE out of any funk it's in. Check your PM's.

 

OK, will try taking off both terminal's cables and jumpering them together. Might top off my battery's charge while it is disconnected too.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll let you know after work how this goes.

Travis

 

I don't have much faith in this resolving the problem - disconnecting the battery and connecting the cables together is intended to discharge any residual charge that capacitors etc. could hold, and with zero voltage the Engine Control Units stored codes and adaptive tuning parameters are reset.
Stored codes and adaptive tuning parameters will not prevent a start.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-spark.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...lease-jbe.html
You could look at that thread and conform that the JBE terminals are all in good condition.

 

No Luck. Tried disconnecting the battery and jumpering the cables together. Also let the battery charge while doing that.

Pulled off as many connectors as I could on the JBE without removing the interior plastic piece and looked at the pins. Every one I could see looked good with no corrosion.

I did make an appointment for the Mini service shop in Loveland CO for Monday. I figured at least I have tried as much as I can with what I had available. Thanks again, if for some reason you come up with anything else, I am open to new ideas.

Travis

 

With the extent of electronics and microprocessors in cars like these, you need expensive diagnostic equipment, which often makes it more cost effective to pay the dealerships high rates.

Here's hoping its something simple and cheap for you.

 

It was worth a shot. Sometimes you get lucky. Is Loveland the closest to you? I know a really good shop in Boulder that works on MINI's. Anyways, definitely let us know what they find and if I think of anything else I'll let you know. Good luck.