Ya I heard that too but then so why does it cure the rattling sound for some when they replaced their transmission and or gearbox?

See I have some noise too but not major I dont know what the dealer will say when I tell them. Prob tell me its normal and thats it. But I'll mention it anyways so they can document it.

 

Well, about 500 miles into the new transmission and it's back again...came back last night in a somewhat dramatic way. I noticed something in the drivetrain was making some funny noises when I began heading down the street. Then when I went to shift, I had a tough time getting the gear lever out of 1st...had to really give it a good yank. At the next intersection (stop sign) I then notice the rattle in neutral is back, full volume. About the only good thing to say is that it sounds much crisper and fresher.

Rest of the night, it was noticably more difficult to get into 1st, but oddly enough shifting between all of the other gears got noticably smoother, as if the transmission suddenly fully broke itself in. Although later in the night, it was getting noticably tighter/stiffer sliding into 4th gear. I wish I could get up under the car and take a look at the shifter cable mechanism...I'm wondering if the stiffness problem lurks in there somewhere.

 

Okay, before I say anything else in this thead, let me introduce myself a bit. I've owned a bunch of British sports cars: 1967 Triumph Spitfire, 1968 Triumph Spitfire Mk II, 1959 MGA coupe, 1965 (?) Jaguar Mk II sedan, 1967 Austin Healy 3000 BJ8 (my wife's car, actually). And been very familiar with several others BSCs owned by family members: 2 MGTDs, 2 XKEs, and a TR-3.

When my wife got "in family way," I started driving a minivan. Been driving minivans (and automatics) for the last 16 years.

My point? I've driven a lot of manual transmissions, most of them British. When I read this thread, my reaction was "you mean there are manual transmissions that don't have rattly throw-out bearings?" (Actually, it just occured to me that the two VWs in my past rattled even worse than the Brits!)

Seems to me there are several possible explanations for what's going on:

1. The problem being described in this thread isn't a throw-out bearing rattle. (But my Magic 8-Ball says, "All signs point to yes.")
   
2. Throw out bearings rattle; always have, always will. Maybe there's some super-duper expensive mechanism that doesn't, but if all you've got is the old "thrust-bearing on a fork," straddling the input shaft, it's going to rattle once in while. (I don't know if this is true or not, but I suspect it might be.)
   
3. Maybe they still rattle, but premium cars have better soundproofing to hide it.
   
4. If the previous items aren't true and engineers have come up with a way to design non-rattling TO bearings, perhaps MINI has retro-designed the rattle back in to please old British sports car codgers like me.
   
5. Maybe TO bearings don't rattle these days... except in English cars!
   
6. Maybe I've got my head up my a**e. (Wouldn't be the first time.) But honestly, if I were to pull up to a stoplight in my new MINI - currently at the VDC! - and it suddenly developed a rattle like what I've read in this thread, I'd simply grin at the wave of nostalgia flooding through me!
   

 

If you have ever replaced a clutch on an old air-cooled VW, you would know that the throwout bearing isn't even an actual bearing in those cars, it was a crazy carbon block affair with no ball bearing or even roller bearing. Just a simple sleeve bearing - bound to rattle as it wore.

Most newer cars have actual ball or roller bearings in the throwout bearing, and should not rattle nearly as soon or as much, although I had an Isuzu trooper that ate them.

A throwout bearing that starts rattling that early is probably up against a warped flywheel, clutch disk, or clutch pressure plate. Unless the bearing was simply delivered defective, one of those 3 is causing the bearing to go bad.

 

i got the same thing.

sent it back to dealer and they wrote on the sheet say "nature of Getrag transmission"(sorry for the spelling mistake).

they did not say anything about fixing it!

 

I think you're missing the point - your last paragraph assumes that any rattling is a sign of something wrong. My experience with other cars (especially British cars) is that throw-out (TO) bearings can rattle in a normal, healthy car.

My guess is that the bearing is just loose on the fork and rattling against the fork and/or the input shaft. I say "guess" because I haven't taken apart a MINI. But as I said earlier, I've owned and driven and repaired a lot of British sports cars and VWs, and I've heard rattling TO bearings under normal circumstances. If the dealers say this is normal, why is everyone getting so worked up? (Unless they just plain don't like the noise.)

Here's what I think is going on (explanation for people who haven't been inside a manual clutch housing): The throwout bearing is a donut-shaped device. The hole in the middle of the donut straddles the transmission's input shaft. The outside edge of the bearing is held at two diametrically opposite points by a fork. This fork presses the bearing against the fingers in the clutch plate, causing the clutch disk to retract from the flywheel.

A quick search for images turned this up. (I hope the guy doesn't mind my linking to it!) It's not a MINI, but I'm assuming a MINI is pretty similar:



If you look carefully around the input shaft, you'll see there's a fairly big gap between the shaft and the TO bearing. The fork pivots in an arc rather than a straight line, so this can't be a tight fit.

I think the rattling that people are complaining about is probably from the TO bearing's being loose in its fork and rattling against the fork and/or the shaft. Not a sign of anything bad. Just a loose fit. I suppose someone could go to some trouble to design a better way of mounting the bearing to the fork so you don't have all this play and looseness. (I expect someone has already designed something like this.) But the important point is that the MINI isn't designed this way. It rattles!

I think it's significant that of all the people complaining of this noise, none have said, "My dealer told me not to worry about it and then it failed!" Another thing that makes me think I'm right, is that in all my British cars that did this, pressing and releasing the clutch pedal would often (but not always) change or eliminate the sound by getting the bearing out of its vibration mode. Case in point:

If my theory is right, it would make sense that a change in angle could affect the way the bearing rides in the fork and touches the shaft. And dumping the pedal, releasing it suddenly, could induce vibration.

If people want to complain, "Yey, I spent a lot of money for this car and I don't like the rattling sound," that's one thing. But I think when the dealers say, "Not to worry - it's normal for this car," and no one seems to be saying, "I heard this sound for x amount of time and then it failed," I don't see why so many people are assuming that something is wrong.

Besides, it would seem to me that if a throw-out bearing were bad or worn or about to fail, you'd be hearing it when the bearing is under load, not when there's no pressure on it!

 

LombardStreet, I think your right on. When I first got my MCS I had concerns (new car jitters which is like a virus here) and had in my mind identified the rattling as the TOB. So I asked my SA at the dealership because I wanted it on record in case it bacame a problem.
He said yes that it had been reported by others and that they had investigated and found no parts wear or anything wrong. You know what, I beleive him.
The dealership had a learning curve too, they had to spend some effort and money to learn about these cars.
Now at 19,0xx miles I know the sounds my MCS makes and am not concerned about a thing. You could just put it down as a MINI thing.
I hear it most on first start up on level ground, never hear it at work parked on down hill grade.

 

Just noticed another thread about a "tapping" noise that sounds like a different problem. The sound is described as loud and rhythmic, and it doesn't go away when the pedal is pressed. Apparently, this has been diagnosed as a bad input shaft bearing.

Throwout bearing rattles (in my limited experience) are kind of random and "light" sounding - not a heavy, *clank*-ing sound, but more like something metallic is loose and rattling around. They go away when you press the pedal and they often sound different from stoplight to stoplight.

I guess I could also mention that a failing throwout bearing makes a nightmarish Screeeee! noise when you push in the clutch.

 

The comment about it being part of the Getrag is silly. I drive a Focus witht he exact same Getrag 6sp, and it DOES NOT have this problem, and noether do the other Focus SVTs.

THis is a problem, and they need to keep fixing it until it works.

 

I wasn't aware the Focus and MCS have the same gearbox. Couldn't verify this with a quickie search of the web, but I'll take your word for it.

Do they have the same throwout bearing, fork, clutch, and bell housing? That's where the noise seems to be coming from, not the tranny itself.

 

I have an appointment at Lauderdale Mini at 9:30 tomorrow for this very problem.


We'll see what they say about it.

 

pls. update us on what they say.....

 

Will do.

 

well i just had my TO bearing replaced at my first service and the noise came back again...i just dropped off my car again this past friday and I called they said it was they TO bearing again......huh? it went in just like 4k miles...I don't understand Ihave been driving manual for like 5 years before I had my mini................I just don't know................


motor on
ant

 

Only the Focus SVT matches. The Focus ZX3 and others use the MTX-75 from the Ford Contour (ugh).

I don't know if they use all the same TO's, etc, and Im sure not the same clutch. But, my only point was that having a Getrag does NOT automatically make your tranny make noise .

Mostly I agree though, with you. Its not the Getrag, its something else in the MINI, Eitherway, its not acceptable. A proerply designed new car shoudl have NO funny sounds .

 

Had this thrust bearing noise in both my 911's and my mechanics told me to ignore it as it has no effect on driving or how long the gear box will last (i had no warranty).I took my 03 cooper s in for its 25,000 mile inspection last week and told them about the noise which was not that loud, but to my surprise they replaced the gear box and the clutch i really was not expecting this!,even with the new box and clutch there is still a faint(very faint) noise there but it's a lot better.I was very surprised by the dealers actions as i did not ask for anything to be done just told them about the noise in case it ever got worse and i was out of warranty.

 

LombardStreet is right about the design of the MINI's Getrag bearing. I've asked many service advisors, and some that are good friends of mine. This is not a problem to worry about...although the sound is annoying at best, it's not going to cause your tranny to **** the bed, so to speak. The design of the bearing is not perfect, and it is loose around the shaft...but this is why when the clutch is pushed in, the sound goes away.....i.e. because it IS performing the way it was designed to perform. Now, if you pushed the clutch in, and the sound did not go away, or say it continued during all stages of shifting, engine speed, and driving....then yes, you have a problem.

Long story short, this is not a MINI flaw, this is a Getrag flaw. Two separate companies, operating in two separate countries, making two separate products. Getrag's many reasons for being included in MINI's selection for their gearbox is that they were the lowest bidder for the production. That's one of the many ways it works with manufacture, as you probably all already know. The attacks or ill will should not be towards MINI or BMW NA, but towards Getrag Manufacturing. Although nothing will change, and MINI will probably be using Getrag forever. My father had a BMW motorcycle with a Getrag transmission, and he said he never had any problems with the transmission, and he had the bike for over 45k miles...which for a bike, is a lot of miles. Point is, Getrag, like many of us, has its ups and downs...perhaps one day, they'll get the TO bearing situation right....until then, we can either live with the noise, or be annoyed by it, continue to have the tranny replaced, only for the noise to come back at a later time, and the cycle of frustration and loaner cars (maybe) continues. I'll live with my noise...it doesn't seem to be hurting the performance or reliability of my MINI....I'll just turn the radio up at stoplights

Warmest Regards, and in no way affiliated with Getrag, MINI, nor having any personal or previous intimate relationships with TO Bearings.

T.

 

FYI, besides my gearbox being a little noisy, I noticed that the clutch pedal seems to have a slight bind on occassion when it's depressed.

 

I've had previous Getrag products in previous cars, Dodges/Chryslers, and would be surprised not to hear a little bit of throw out bearing sound. No problems developed on any of those cars. Not scientific, just my experience. Usually if you are sitting at the drive up window at a bank or restaurant, you can let the clutch out and hear a little noise off the wall next to you. Not that out of the ordinary, but if the dealer wants to replace the parts, have at it. As long as the clutch engages nicely, and the shifts are smooth, I'd leave it alone, as you could run the risk of having other problems after they start digging. If the noise gets loud, or you have other issues, that's the time for service.

 

On occasion, it feels like the clutch has a slight bind and then once I depress the clutch pedal it's okay. Should I be concerned about that or just report it to the dealer so it's documented? My tranny does have a slight rattle but given that the whole car is noisy it's not easy to hear.

 

Check out this update, for the MC, but there may also be one for the MCS 6sp.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=44691

Steve

 

Sounds just like what my Dealer told me back in March..

Still rattling, everything else still seems fine.. currently about 29,500 mi on my 1/04 build MCS.. I'll definitely bring it up again at my next service..