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Bad JBE on 2010 R56S? Random shutdowns- second opinions wanted.
Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).
Bad JBE on 2010 R56S? Random shutdowns- second opinions wanted.
Sorry in advance for the long post. I have been chasing an electrical gremlin for some time. It started with random shutdowns while running.
No codes after shutdown. (Schwaben Diag tool) Car would star right up and be fine. Shutdowns first were weeks apart, then days. Progressed to shutting down while idling in my driveway after a few minutes. It became harder and harder to restart.
So some notes:
R56S 2010 189,000 miles had been running great. My daily driver. I carbon blasted it and had new plugs. Running fine for a month after before shutdowns started.
Oil changed every 5k, compression on cylinders still to spec.
First thing I noticed after shutdowns was no prime at door unlock or start attempt LPFP does not run. Also no vapor pump check but that doesn’t always run after disconnecting battery.
LPFP runs fine when supplied with 12v and is only weeks old. I originally replaced it because at 189k I figured that was the culprit. Fuel filter was replaced also at same time. Car initially ran fine after both were replaced but quickly started shutting down again. Fuel rail pressure and LPFP pressure are both fine when it runs.
HPFP is also quite new and is genuine mini part.
I'm familiar with HPFP failures there have been no misfires or rough idle. Just fuel starvation.
Manual prime car starts right up and runs until fuel is depleted.
ECU was diagnosed and deemed OK by G7 computers - great service - thought it might be bad signal to pump.
SO onto thinking it’s the elusive K96 fuel pump relay in th JBE because ...
12v signal from ECU into JBE is present at key insert and startup. Wire continuity Ok
12v signal at Fuse F46 before relay OK measures battery voltage.
Measured voltage at connector after relay to pump- 2v less than battery voltage- 10.6v atbstart attempt only no prime voltage at all - voltage at pump same measurement -
ground wire at pump checks out Ok
jumped pump from fuse F46 pump runs fine
So I’m pretty sure the fuel pump relay on the JBE board has gone bad. I took the JBE out and visually inspected but no obvious burns or failures. All other modules and parts of the car operate fine.
Im about to throw a new JBE in but I’m second guessing myself. The voltage at the pump should be at battery voltage correct? Is the 2v drain from the bad relay? When the battery is charged to full capacity would the extra voltage be enough to negate the 2v and start up as normal? This did happen sometimes the car started right up. Would the car stall after the fuel pump wasn’t getting a full 12v again as the excess charge balanced out and supply to the pump fell below 12v? . Alternator is pretty new also. Provides 14v while the car runs I watched live data during rides to work. Engine and coolant temps remain normal too so it’s not a thermal shutdown.
The battery does seem to drain after unlocking and start attempts. Is the bad relay causing the drain after prime signal? Battery is less than a year and I had it checked -it seems to holds a full charge. I am going to have it checked again just in case I killed it with all the trouble shooting.
Please any advice or similar circumstances I’d love to hear. It seems as others have had this too but I don’t see any resolutions. I’ve learned a ton about my car over the years on this board but this one has me overguessing myself. Thanks to anyone with insight.
I read someone had something similar...in his case, the relay next to the ECU was shorting...try there first. If that doent fixt it, you can buy a used JBE with same part number or similar car. They are plug and play. Reprogramming/coding is preferred but at least you can get back on the road.
MiniToBe - Found a exact match JBE and just installed it. Engine fired right up. I can see why you just replace whole modules on your salvage vehicles. Definitely the way to go. Thanks for your support. I'm an industrial designer and I learned a lot from your posts. One of your posts is what keyed me in to it being the JBE. I can get a few more miles out of this mini. I was planning on it becoming my daughters drive to school car. Cheers.
Sorry in advance for the long post. I have been chasing an electrical gremlin for some time. It started with random shutdowns while running.
No codes after shutdown. (Schwaben Diag tool) Car would star right up and be fine. Shutdowns first were weeks apart, then days. Progressed to shutting down while idling in my driveway after a few minutes. It became harder and harder to restart.
So some notes:
R56S 2010 189,000 miles had been running great. My daily driver. I carbon blasted it and had new plugs. Running fine for a month after before shutdowns started.
Oil changed every 5k, compression on cylinders still to spec.
First thing I noticed after shutdowns was no prime at door unlock or start attempt LPFP does not run. Also no vapor pump check but that doesn’t always run after disconnecting battery.
LPFP runs fine when supplied with 12v and is only weeks old. I originally replaced it because at 189k I figured that was the culprit. Fuel filter was replaced also at same time. Car initially ran fine after both were replaced but quickly started shutting down again. Fuel rail pressure and LPFP pressure are both fine when it runs.
HPFP is also quite new and is genuine mini part.
I'm familiar with HPFP failures there have been no misfires or rough idle. Just fuel starvation.
Manual prime car starts right up and runs until fuel is depleted.
ECU was diagnosed and deemed OK by G7 computers - great service - thought it might be bad signal to pump.
SO onto thinking it’s the elusive K96 fuel pump relay in th JBE because ...
12v signal from ECU into JBE is present at key insert and startup. Wire continuity Ok
12v signal at Fuse F46 before relay OK measures battery voltage.
Measured voltage at connector after relay to pump- 2v less than battery voltage- 10.6v atbstart attempt only no prime voltage at all - voltage at pump same measurement -
ground wire at pump checks out Ok
jumped pump from fuse F46 pump runs fine
So I’m pretty sure the fuel pump relay on the JBE board has gone bad. I took the JBE out and visually inspected but no obvious burns or failures. All other modules and parts of the car operate fine.
Im about to throw a new JBE in but I’m second guessing myself. The voltage at the pump should be at battery voltage correct? Is the 2v drain from the bad relay? When the battery is charged to full capacity would the extra voltage be enough to negate the 2v and start up as normal? This did happen sometimes the car started right up. Would the car stall after the fuel pump wasn’t getting a full 12v again as the excess charge balanced out and supply to the pump fell below 12v? . Alternator is pretty new also. Provides 14v while the car runs I watched live data during rides to work. Engine and coolant temps remain normal too so it’s not a thermal shutdown.
The battery does seem to drain after unlocking and start attempts. Is the bad relay causing the drain after prime signal? Battery is less than a year and I had it checked -it seems to holds a full charge. I am going to have it checked again just in case I killed it with all the trouble shooting.
Please any advice or similar circumstances I’d love to hear. It seems as others have had this too but I don’t see any resolutions. I’ve learned a ton about my car over the years on this board but this one has me overguessing myself. Thanks to anyone with insight.
JB
So I have this same problem and I think that I have narrowed it down to the fuel pump relay, which is located on the main board of the JBE. You can replace this relay with a standard relay. i will see if I can document what I do to get that done. I am not going to buy another JBE quite yet.
So I have this same problem and I think that I have narrowed it down to the fuel pump relay, which is located on the main board of the JBE. You can replace this relay with a standard relay. i will see if I can document what I do to get that done. I am not going to buy another JBE quite yet.
I don't think you can replace the fuel pump relay with a standard relay, since it is integrated and soldered into the interior of the panel.
I don't think you can replace the fuel pump relay with a standard relay, since it is integrated and soldered into the interior of the panel.
There are 2 wires on the integrated relay that matter, the white/blue wire going out of the relay to the pump, and the wire that goes from the dme module to the integrated relay. If I connect the w/b wire to terminal 30 and the DME wire to terminal 86 on any 30/40 amp SPST 12v relay, I can hook up a switched and unstitched 12v to the other 2 terminals, that will effectively remove the internal relay from the loop and replace it with the new one. Right now, I’m making sure I absolutely have the correct wires before I proceed. I should get done on Sunday. If it doesn’t work, I’ll just replace the JBE.
2010 MCS I'm having the same issues with the low pressure fuel pump. Checking voltage at the fuel pump bl/wt wire to brn, voltage is random and off the chart 100 -150 volts. Pump runs and car starts and runs when jumped with 12 volts at pump. Have you found a way around replacing the whole fuse box? That a simple relay, that should be a $20 dollar or less part, can take a car out of service just seems wrong. Is this the only relay built into the JBE? What are the best options for finding a replacement (JBE) ?
2010 MCS I'm having the same issues with the low pressure fuel pump. Checking voltage at the fuel pump bl/wt wire to brn, voltage is random and off the chart 100 -150 volts. Pump runs and car starts and runs when jumped with 12 volts at pump. Have you found a way around replacing the whole fuse box? That a simple relay, that should be a $20 dollar or less part, can take a car out of service just seems wrong. Is this the only relay built into the JBE? What are the best options for finding a replacement (JBE) ?
You need to see if the voltage going into the JBE is doing the same thing. If the voltage going into the JBE is ok, then you can either replace the JBE or you can remove the relay from the JBE board and replace it. You could also put a relay separate from the JBE by clipping the wires and directly connecting a relay. The latter option should only be done if you know what you are doing.
Replacement JBEs are pretty inexpensive on eBay. You will need to match the numbers to make sure you are getting the correct JBE.
You never stated in the thread if your bypass of the LPFP Relay on the JBE worked or if you had to replace the JBE. All signs point to the same LPFP relay issue on my 2012 R55 Clubman S and to date i've been unsucessful in locating a used one (Ebay and Car-Part) to install and am really hoping to avoid the Stealership route if at all possible. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide. I really misss driving my Mini daily....
You never stated in the thread if your bypass of the LPFP Relay on the JBE worked or if you had to replace the JBE. All signs point to the same LPFP relay issue on my 2012 R55 Clubman S and to date i've been unsucessful in locating a used one (Ebay and Car-Part) to install and am really hoping to avoid the Stealership route if at all possible. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide. I really misss driving my Mini daily....
The bypass was not the problem. The person I purchased the car from replaced the LPFP with an aftermarket pump that worked intermittently. I purchased an OEM pump ($500) and have had no problems at all since then. I troubleshot the relay on the board before I decided not to replace it. The relay was fine. I dont remember which 2 are the coil and which 2 are the switched on the relay, but its pretty easy to test. Google how to test a 12v relay. Hope this helps.
One other thing you can do to see if its the relay or the pump is to hook a voltmeter to the wires on the LPFP and turn the key on. If there is voltage, then the relay is working. If you leave the wires connected tot he VM and to the pump, you can drive the car until the pump or relay fails and check the voltage then. If you still have voltage, then the pump is bad. If you dont have voltage, try tapping on the outside cover of the JBE near the bottom to see if the voltage changes or comes back. This is definite indicator that you have an electrical connection problem somewhere in the JBE. If you get no change, then you relay is not working and you can do the bypass.
Thanks for the insight. I have a second Mini R56 that we verified part numbers on the LPFP to be the same as the R55, so we put that one in the R55 and still had the same result with start and then subsequent shutoff, so this leads me to believe that the lpfp isn't the cause, but we can definitely do some more testing and troubleshooting.
Thanks for the insight. I have a second Mini R56 that we verified part numbers on the LPFP to be the same as the R55, so we put that one in the R55 and still had the same result with start and then subsequent shutoff, so this leads me to believe that the lpfp isn't the cause, but we can definitely do some more testing and troubleshooting.
Have a great day and stay safe sir.....
John
Yep, what is the part number on your JBE? I have one here that I am not using.
JBE from the car with probable lpfp relay concerns.
Gresh,
If I'm reading it correctly looks to me like the part number 61.35 3456854-01 Date Code is 02/06/2012 and Software Version 15.01.00. If you have the matching JBE, that would be awesome....
Update - Resolved!!! So not being able to find a used JBE with the correct part number nor wanting to pay the outrageous price the Stealership wanted for a new JBE, decided to take a chance and replace the LPFP Relay on the circuit board of the JBE that came from the vehicle. Ordered 3 relays from Onlinecomponents.com for like $29 with shipping and then undertook the challenge of replacing the relay. I will admit that the replacement was a bit more tedious and time consuming that I had thought it would be, but in the end it was a total success and my Mini is back on the road as good as new....
Here's the original relay on the board: The lpfp relay is in lower right hand corner labeled NEC.
JBE Module has two boards connected with standoffs on two sides as shown here: Standoffs connecting the two boards prior to separation.
First attempt to desolder one side of the standoff was unsuccessful as there was too much solder in place to get separation. Took a dremel to cut the standoffs and separate the boards. Upon separation, there was a bad solder joint around the main lug on the relay whcih I believe was causing the failure. Rather than repair the solder joint, we opted to replace the relay. Unsoldered the original relay and replaced it with a new one purchased online. Then had to painstakingly resolder all of the standoffs.
Resoldered Standoffs from one side.
Here's the resoldered standoff's from other side: Standoffs from 2nd side.
New LPFP Relay on the board: New LPFP Relay upper right hand corner.
Put the boards back in the case and reinstalled the JBE into the Mini and she fired right back up witout any CEL's after I set the time. I've driven her about 125 miles in the last 3 days and no issues or problems whatso ever..... I thought this might be of some help to those that are experiencing no power to the lpfp.
Great pics of the boards. I am about to undertake the same task. Only issue I have with the repair you did is the re-soldering of the standoff pins. That has to introduce multiple failure points down the road.
Proper way would be to cut them out and unsolder each one and put in new pins. I am researching what size pins and where to source some now. In the meantime I may have to do exactly what you did to get the car going.
My board is a different version than yours but similar.
Someone needs to beat the engineer that made this relay non serviceable.
I totally agree that the better solution would be to replace the standoff pins, but unfortunately I didn't have new ones and by the time I got to the point of attempting the repair, the vehicle had been out of service for like 3 weeks, so with nothing to lose, I rolled the dice and went this route. I'm happy to report that it's been six months since the repair, and I've probably put 8,000 miles on her (starting and stopping her no less than six time a day) as she's my preferred daily driver (other vehicle is a 2017 Ford XLT) and knock on wood, no issues whatsoever. If you source the standoff pins, I'd love to know the particulars (part number, source, etc.) so I can get some and have them on the ready should I experience anymore issues down the road.
As for the design engineer, they may have included the matching socket in the original design and some bean counter eliminated it for cost savings measures. So rather than beat him/her, I think you get the person resonsible for that decision and use the soldering iron that's needed for the repair to show our frustration at the poor design choices made. You can't tell me that Mini/BMW couldn't have sprung for the extra $1.00 or so that it would have cost to include the matching socket to make the relay serviceable. Truly a poor decision on their part.
Best of luck on the repair to get your baby back on the road and if I can be of any help at all, don't hesitate to let me know...
Update - Resolved!!! So not being able to find a used JBE with the correct part number nor wanting to pay the outrageous price the Stealership wanted for a new JBE, decided to take a chance and replace the LPFP Relay on the circuit board of the JBE that came from the vehicle. Ordered 3 relays from Onlinecomponents.com for like $29 with shipping and then undertook the challenge of replacing the relay. I will admit that the replacement was a bit more tedious and time consuming that I had thought it would be, but in the end it was a total success and my Mini is back on the road as good as new....
Here's the original relay on the board: The lpfp relay is in lower right hand corner labeled NEC.
JBE Module has two boards connected with standoffs on two sides as shown here: Standoffs connecting the two boards prior to separation.
First attempt to desolder one side of the standoff was unsuccessful as there was too much solder in place to get separation. Took a dremel to cut the standoffs and separate the boards. Upon separation, there was a bad solder joint around the main lug on the relay whcih I believe was causing the failure. Rather than repair the solder joint, we opted to replace the relay. Unsoldered the original relay and replaced it with a new one purchased online. Then had to painstakingly resolder all of the standoffs.
Resoldered Standoffs from one side.
Here's the resoldered standoff's from other side: Standoffs from 2nd side.
New LPFP Relay on the board: New LPFP Relay upper right hand corner.
Put the boards back in the case and reinstalled the JBE into the Mini and she fired right back up witout any CEL's after I set the time. I've driven her about 125 miles in the last 3 days and no issues or problems whatso ever..... I thought this might be of some help to those that are experiencing no power to the lpfp.
John
Heye John, I have just started developing the same issue and struggling to find a new JBE or the relay. What relay did you pick up from onlinecomponents.com? I appreciate your detailed post and plan to use it as an assist.
So I found a place with the exact relay. They had minimum order. So if you need one I can sell you one. Cheap.
I should clarify a little. My board is slightly different than the OP's board. I will post some pics. I have the Hella relay - 4ra 743 555-10. Most of the online pics I can find also have the Hella relay. It might be the same as your NEC. I did not research that.
I bought a 112 pieces to get to the minimum. Selling 111 off for cheap.
So I found a place with the exact relay. They had minimum order. So if you need one I can sell you one. Cheap.
I should clarify a little. My board is slightly different than the OP's board. I will post some pics. I have the Hella relay - 4ra 743 555-10. Most of the online pics I can find also have the Hella relay. It might be the same as your NEC. I did not research that.
I bought a 112 pieces to get to the minimum. Selling 111 off for cheap.
I will double check tomorrow the exact relay and I'll let you know. I would appreciate the assist since it seems these are a pain to find.
Also, if someone has my pcb layout it would be possible to add in another relay to fix without removing the old one and having to separate the two boards. Biggest problem of the entire thing.
Sorry for the delay in responding... Here are the details from the order at Online Components. Hope this helps....1 OF 1 SHIPMENTS
EP2F-B3G1ST
World Products
Electromechanical Relay 12VDC 225Ohm 30A DPDT (23.8x16.2x16)mm TH...
Item Price: $4.76 Quantity: 3
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I have a second Mini, a 2007 MCS 6sp that I acquired as a project which we have been working on that didn't run when I bought her. Long story short, at a minimum, she jumped time and bent the ehaust valves. Got head rebuilt and finished putting everything back together yesterday and tried to start her up. Wouldn't start, so put a little starting fluid the the MAF sensor and she fired (Good sign). No power to LPFP when cranking, but the LPFP operates when you apply 12V using the power probe, so I'm thinking it's fine. I pulled the JBE, but at first glance don't see any obvious issues like I did on the one for my 2012 R55 (the one I did the repair on). Going to keep digging in today to see what we find. What are the odds of having the same issue on two different vehicles back to back? Oh so frustrating.....
09-23-2018, 02:18 PM
you can squeeze even more miles with just doing regular maintenance...be safe 
