High speed fan kick on after I turn the ignition off
#1
10-22-2018, 04:37 PM
High speed fan kick on after I turn the ignition off
On my 2004 Mini Cooper S, I ave noticed that the high speed fan seems to kick into gear sometimes after I turn the car off. It will run for several minutes. I replaced the low speed resistor a few months back with a kit I purchased on Ebay. Cut the wires solder the new wires in attache the plastic assembly back in. Easy project that didn't require pulling everything off. At the time that was preventing the AC from working. Now the AC seems to work correctly. I also had the power steering pump and fan replaced a couple of months ago (recall). I just noticed this over the past couple of weeks. When the high speed fan kicks in, it is hard to miss.
Did the resistor go bad again? Perhaps there is an issue with the fan itself causing the resistor to blow?
Maybe it is normal behavior. I can't imagine I would have missed this if it was normal.
Apprecaite any comments.
Ian
Did the resistor go bad again? Perhaps there is an issue with the fan itself causing the resistor to blow?
Maybe it is normal behavior. I can't imagine I would have missed this if it was normal.
Apprecaite any comments.
Ian
#2
10-22-2018, 05:17 PM
#3
10-22-2018, 05:37 PM
Monitor the coolant temps. If the temps are high, I’d consider the thermostat as suspect.
Keith808 wrote this key info:
Thermostat begins to open at 89-92° C (192° F - 198° F) and is fully open at 103° C (217° F).
Expansion Tank Cap Cap pressurizes the system to 1.1 bar (16 psi) at which point the cap valve will lift to relieve pressure.
Radiator Fan
Low speed is switched on at 105°C (221° F) coolant temp and off when the temperature drops to 101°C (214° F).
High speed is switched on at 112° C (234° F) and remains on until the system coolant temperature drops by 4° C (39° F) at which point the system will revert to Low Speed.
more at this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ning-temp.html
Check your car and let us know what you find out.
#4
10-22-2018, 09:02 PM
#5
10-22-2018, 11:24 PM
That’s normal, it does the same in my 2008 Clubman S after turning off the engine, but my 2002 MCS stop coming on after i replaced the resistor few years back with the issue of overheating due to bad low speed resistor went bad twice, after that never came on again but the low and high speed fan comes on at the right temperature as supposed to while driving, its just doesn’t comes on when i turn-off the engine. I remember when i first drove the car home i hear the high speed fan on all the time after turning off the engine and turn off by itself.
i want to mentioned though that my car A/C are always on when i drove my car, maybe this is the only reason why the fan comes on when i turn-off the engine to cool off the A/C and lowered the pressure in tge system.
i want to mentioned though that my car A/C are always on when i drove my car, maybe this is the only reason why the fan comes on when i turn-off the engine to cool off the A/C and lowered the pressure in tge system.
Last edited by drea-min; 10-25-2018 at 06:07 PM.
#6
10-23-2018, 07:25 AM
Is the low-speed fan activating as soon as you turn on the A/C?
If not, then it's either the resistor, the low-speed relay or perhaps a wire (from your resistor install) disconnected.
NOT normal... If the fan is working properly, i.e., both low and high speeds functional, the temp shouldn't spike so high as to activate high-speed when vehicle switched off.
If not, then it's either the resistor, the low-speed relay or perhaps a wire (from your resistor install) disconnected.
NOT normal... If the fan is working properly, i.e., both low and high speeds functional, the temp shouldn't spike so high as to activate high-speed when vehicle switched off.
#7
10-23-2018, 07:52 AM
Agree, it is not normal for the fan to come on after ignition is off. That water in the rad is going nowhere as the pump is not running so it serves no purpose to run the fan when engine is off. When I had this phenomenon it was a faulty/incorrect temperature sensor in the replacement thermostat housing. My original was green, replacement was brown. Replaced with green one from dealer and all good after that, no more fan run on.
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#8
10-23-2018, 08:04 AM
Agree, it is not normal for the fan to come on after ignition is off. That water in the rad is going nowhere as the pump is not running so it serves no purpose to run the fan when engine is off. When I had this phenomenon it was a faulty/incorrect temperature sensor in the replacement thermostat housing. My original was green, replacement was brown. Replaced with green one from dealer and all good after that, no more fan run on.
#9
10-23-2018, 08:11 AM
The fan is actually serving a HUGE purpose, doing its job to get the engine temp down, as coolant temps always elevate for a bit when engines are shut down. The problem here is if the temps are spiking high enough (due to low-speed not working) to get to that 234°F temp which triggers the high-speed fan -- especially when engine is off -- there is a problem.
#10
10-23-2018, 08:19 AM
At this point, the thermostat would be wide open, so cooling down the water in the radiator would have somewhat of an effect on the system as a whole.
My fan (discovered to have failed L/S resistor) used to do the same thing until I replaced it. Since then it has not happened.
#11
10-23-2018, 08:25 AM
It certainly turns on for a reason. Some cooling is better than no cooling.
At this point, the thermostat would be wide open, so cooling down the water in the radiator would have somewhat of an effect on the system as a whole.
My fan (discovered to have failed L/S resistor) used to do the same thing until I replaced it. Since then it has not happened.
At this point, the thermostat would be wide open, so cooling down the water in the radiator would have somewhat of an effect on the system as a whole.
My fan (discovered to have failed L/S resistor) used to do the same thing until I replaced it. Since then it has not happened.
#12
10-23-2018, 10:43 PM
#13
10-24-2018, 07:04 AM
The suggestion here is the low-speed circuit might not be functioning (perhaps due to a failed resistor or bad relay), therefore coolant temp rises to the 234°F (112°C) mark which will trigger the high-speed fan -- even with the ignition switched off after a drive.
#14
10-24-2018, 05:33 PM
So in my case, clearly there is something wrong. Until today, I have never noticed that the temperature (as indicated by the instrument cluster) was anything other than middle of the dial. SInce an earlier comment mentioned the thermostat,, I have been paying close attention to the temperature gauge. To day on the drive home, while stopped at a light, I noticed that the temperature was pegs all the way to the top. I hope I got lucky, as I was able to pull over immediately and park. Radiator fluid was low. I had topped it up a couple of weeks ago for the first time in forever.I let it cool down. filled the radiator, purged air and was able to get home. I noticed when I got home that the radiator did not run on when I turned the engine off. so overheating is the key suspect.
So why is it overheating? Is this a thermostat issue? It doesn't seem like I have a radiator fluid leak but I am losing radiator fluid somewhere. I haven't noticed any other issues that would indicate a head gasket leak.
Will drive my wife's car until I get a chance to work on it this weekend.
Appreciate any comments.
So why is it overheating? Is this a thermostat issue? It doesn't seem like I have a radiator fluid leak but I am losing radiator fluid somewhere. I haven't noticed any other issues that would indicate a head gasket leak.
Will drive my wife's car until I get a chance to work on it this weekend.
Appreciate any comments.
#16
10-25-2018, 06:18 AM
To get to the answer for your overheating issue, you'll have to systematically eliminate individual cooling system components.
Expansion Tank:
Are you losing coolant at the expansion tank?
This could be the tank itself (check seams all around), or a failed cap not holding pressure.
Fan:
Is your fan currently working properly on both low and high-speed circuits?
You mentioned replacing the resistor a while ago, but it may have failed again.
Is the low-speed fan turning on as soon as you turn on the A/C?
How to test the fan using a continuity meter or multimeter:
Disconnect fan plug from harness.
Put multimeter into continuity mode and connect negative lead to the brown ground wire on the fan plug.
Attach positive lead to the thinner red wire (low speed fan) on the fan plug, If functioning properly, multimeter should beep.
If no beep on low speed wire, the low speed resistor has failed.
Attach positive lead to the thicker red wire (high speed fan) on the fan plug.
If functioning properly, multimeter should beepIf no beep on high speed wire, the entire fan has failed.
Have you checked your fan fuses and relays?
With your engine running and up to temperature, your fan relays (there's one for low and one for high speed) should "click" when they trigger the fan circuits. If you've concluded via the multimeter that both low and high-speed fan circuits are functioning, but the fan might not be turning on, check the fan relays located in the engine fuse box. If you place your finger on them, you will detect a click when they trigger the fan to go on. Check both. If only one is clicking, swap them with one another, to see how it behaves on the other circuit. If one of the relays does not click on either the low or high-speed position, you have a bad relay.
Fan Specs:
Let engine idle while you watch the temp rise.At 221°F (105°C), Lo-Speed fan comes on, then turns off at 214°F (101°C).At 234°F (112°C), Hi-Speed fan comes on, then reverts to Lo-Speed @ 227°F (108°C).If temp gets to 238°F (114°C) and still no fan, turn engine off.* It should be noted that if the A/C is on, the low-speed fan will cycle on and off regardless of coolant temperature
======
Thermostat:
If all of the above has checked out, then you'll have to start looking at the thermostat.
Thermostat Specs:
Thermostat is wide open at 196°F (91°C).When cold engine first comes up to 195°F (90°C), you should see the temperature cycle down from 195°F (90°C), to 189°F (87°C) as the thermostat opens, then it will go back up again until the temp rises beyond.If it's not cycling, you have a faulty thermostat.
With engine warm and heat turned on, if you crack the bleeder screw on the top hose, coolant should seep out if thermostat is opened.
Expansion Tank:
Are you losing coolant at the expansion tank?
This could be the tank itself (check seams all around), or a failed cap not holding pressure.
Fan:
Is your fan currently working properly on both low and high-speed circuits?
You mentioned replacing the resistor a while ago, but it may have failed again.
Is the low-speed fan turning on as soon as you turn on the A/C?
How to test the fan using a continuity meter or multimeter:
Disconnect fan plug from harness.
Put multimeter into continuity mode and connect negative lead to the brown ground wire on the fan plug.
Attach positive lead to the thinner red wire (low speed fan) on the fan plug, If functioning properly, multimeter should beep.
If no beep on low speed wire, the low speed resistor has failed.
Attach positive lead to the thicker red wire (high speed fan) on the fan plug.
If functioning properly, multimeter should beepIf no beep on high speed wire, the entire fan has failed.
Have you checked your fan fuses and relays?
With your engine running and up to temperature, your fan relays (there's one for low and one for high speed) should "click" when they trigger the fan circuits. If you've concluded via the multimeter that both low and high-speed fan circuits are functioning, but the fan might not be turning on, check the fan relays located in the engine fuse box. If you place your finger on them, you will detect a click when they trigger the fan to go on. Check both. If only one is clicking, swap them with one another, to see how it behaves on the other circuit. If one of the relays does not click on either the low or high-speed position, you have a bad relay.
Fan Specs:
Let engine idle while you watch the temp rise.At 221°F (105°C), Lo-Speed fan comes on, then turns off at 214°F (101°C).At 234°F (112°C), Hi-Speed fan comes on, then reverts to Lo-Speed @ 227°F (108°C).If temp gets to 238°F (114°C) and still no fan, turn engine off.* It should be noted that if the A/C is on, the low-speed fan will cycle on and off regardless of coolant temperature
======
Thermostat:
If all of the above has checked out, then you'll have to start looking at the thermostat.
Thermostat Specs:
Thermostat is wide open at 196°F (91°C).When cold engine first comes up to 195°F (90°C), you should see the temperature cycle down from 195°F (90°C), to 189°F (87°C) as the thermostat opens, then it will go back up again until the temp rises beyond.If it's not cycling, you have a faulty thermostat.
With engine warm and heat turned on, if you crack the bleeder screw on the top hose, coolant should seep out if thermostat is opened.
Last edited by AoxoMoxoA; 10-25-2018 at 06:24 AM.
#17
10-25-2018, 06:27 AM
#18
10-25-2018, 06:32 AM
#19
10-25-2018, 07:03 AM
5th Gear
#20
10-25-2018, 03:17 PM
Yes I did consider it going out the exhaust (An earlier Toyota Previa had a head gasket leak. That characteristic white smoke when starting out was a clear giveaway. So far no sign of this on my mini cooper. Although I am not out of the woods yet.
Did some work tonight. Ran it up to temperature (200F) tonight no obvious leak. Closely inspected the tank and certainly nothing obvious or around any of the hose clamps I could see (thermostat etc). Didn't get up underneath to look below the thermostat housing but nothing dripping.
Interestingly, atleast to me, when I opened up the bleed valve at the front of the car, When At temperature, I though it would gush out but it only leaked out a bit. I took the bleed valve out and nothing came out Would this indicate the thermostat is not opening? water pump? Mabe the bleed valve is upstream of the pump? SInce the temperature was about 200F the thermostat should be open.
I haven't checked the low speed fan setting but the Fan is definitely working.
Ian
Did some work tonight. Ran it up to temperature (200F) tonight no obvious leak. Closely inspected the tank and certainly nothing obvious or around any of the hose clamps I could see (thermostat etc). Didn't get up underneath to look below the thermostat housing but nothing dripping.
Interestingly, atleast to me, when I opened up the bleed valve at the front of the car, When At temperature, I though it would gush out but it only leaked out a bit. I took the bleed valve out and nothing came out Would this indicate the thermostat is not opening? water pump? Mabe the bleed valve is upstream of the pump? SInce the temperature was about 200F the thermostat should be open.
I haven't checked the low speed fan setting but the Fan is definitely working.
Ian
Last edited by ijourneaux; 10-26-2018 at 03:38 AM.
#21
10-26-2018, 05:59 AM
Interestingly, at least to me, when I opened up the bleed valve at the front of the car, When At temperature, I though it would gush out but it only leaked out a bit. I took the bleed valve out and nothing came out Would this indicate the thermostat is not opening? water pump? Maybe the bleed valve is upstream of the pump? Since the temperature was about 200F the thermostat should be open.
Are you positive your system is properly filled and bled?
How's the level in the expansion tank?
What coolant are you using?
There's a big sound difference in the fan modes.
The low-speed is barely audible over the idling engine, while the high-speed is unmistakably loud - like a fanboat streaking through the Florida Everglades!
#22
10-26-2018, 06:52 AM
5th Gear
You can check both low and high speed circuits by bypassing the relays. Short or connect pins 87 and 30 on each relay. If the fan operates in both modes then the fan circuits are good. If either doesn’t come on then there is a problem in the circuit. No low speed with a good high speed usually means the low speed resistor on the fan is bad. If the low speed comes on when you jumped the two terminals but doesn’t operate at appropriate temperatures or when the AC is on then it’s probably the relay.
#23
10-26-2018, 02:37 PM
It is definitely the high speed fan that I am hearing. Will check the low speed circuit tomorrow. I totally agree rwt air pockets. My Previa van was particularly suseptible. It didn't have an accessible bleed valve and you had to go through girations to get it bled correctly. That said, I could be missing something wrt mini. Last night when I first started up the car, the radiator reservoir was half full. I let the car warm up and it got to 197-202F. I cracked the bleed valve and just a few drops came out. I carefully opened the bleed valve figuring it would start gushing out but that didn't happen. When that didn't happen, I got it all of the way off and absolutely nothing came out. If the thermostat never opened , would I get any flow out the bleed valve?
I ordered a replacement thermostat and will change it out on the weekend. It couldn't hurt given the age but I would like to be more confident that it would fix the issue.
As always, the dicussion is greatly appreciated.
I ordered a replacement thermostat and will change it out on the weekend. It couldn't hurt given the age but I would like to be more confident that it would fix the issue.
As always, the dicussion is greatly appreciated.
#24
10-26-2018, 06:51 PM
Since you’re planning on replacing your thermostat, and thus will need to drain you coolant, I’d suggest you follow the following instructions to properly replace the coolant in your MINI. I’d also suggest that you use the proper blue MINI branded coolant.
———
The following is from BMW Tech Information System, 1982-2004, v6.3.1.23B / Series R53, engine W/11 Cooper S
· Elevate the vehicle safely on jack stands.
· Place tarp or plastic sheet under vehicle.
· Remove cap on expansion tank.
· Remove the under body protection panel.
· Disconnect the lower radiator hose, drain and catch the old coolant.
· Crack upper plastic bleeder screw to facilitate draining.
· When it stops flowing, reconnect the hose.
· Loosen LOWER vent plug (10mm bolt) under thermostat housing.
· You already loosened the UPPER vent plug in radiator hose.
· Leave BOTH plugs loose so system vents during filling.
· Slowly pour fresh coolant into expansion tank, watching lower vent screw.
· When coolant emerges from lower vent screw (no bubbles), tighten it.
· Fill expansion tank until coolant stays at the MAX line without dropping.
· Place the heater control on HIGH and fan on LOW
· Start the engine, run at idle, slowly adding coolant if the level drops.
· With the TOP bleeder screw cracked, idle until thermostat opens (196°F)
· Watch the TOP bleeder screw carefully and close when coolant escapes.
· Make sure coolant stays at the MAX line in expansion tank without dropping.
· If it drops, slowly add until it stays at MAX level.
· Take car for a short drive, re-check when cool, and top off (to MAX line) if necessary.
———
The following is from BMW Tech Information System, 1982-2004, v6.3.1.23B / Series R53, engine W/11 Cooper S
· Elevate the vehicle safely on jack stands.
· Place tarp or plastic sheet under vehicle.
· Remove cap on expansion tank.
· Remove the under body protection panel.
· Disconnect the lower radiator hose, drain and catch the old coolant.
· Crack upper plastic bleeder screw to facilitate draining.
· When it stops flowing, reconnect the hose.
· Loosen LOWER vent plug (10mm bolt) under thermostat housing.
· You already loosened the UPPER vent plug in radiator hose.
· Leave BOTH plugs loose so system vents during filling.
· Slowly pour fresh coolant into expansion tank, watching lower vent screw.
· When coolant emerges from lower vent screw (no bubbles), tighten it.
· Fill expansion tank until coolant stays at the MAX line without dropping.
· Place the heater control on HIGH and fan on LOW
· Start the engine, run at idle, slowly adding coolant if the level drops.
· With the TOP bleeder screw cracked, idle until thermostat opens (196°F)
· Watch the TOP bleeder screw carefully and close when coolant escapes.
· Make sure coolant stays at the MAX line in expansion tank without dropping.
· If it drops, slowly add until it stays at MAX level.
· Take car for a short drive, re-check when cool, and top off (to MAX line) if necessary.
#25
10-27-2018, 10:10 AM
Is the low-speed fan activating as soon as you turn on the A/C?
If not, then it's either the resistor, the low-speed relay or perhaps a wire (from your resistor install) disconnected.
NOT normal... If the fan is working properly, i.e., both low and high speeds functional, the temp shouldn't spike so high as to activate high-speed when vehicle switched off.
If not, then it's either the resistor, the low-speed relay or perhaps a wire (from your resistor install) disconnected.
NOT normal... If the fan is working properly, i.e., both low and high speeds functional, the temp shouldn't spike so high as to activate high-speed when vehicle switched off.
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