Woke up to this the other morning. Car isn't even registered yet, but I want to see if it's a common occurrence in MINIs. Thank you.

Click here to see video of the startup.

Thank you.

EDIT 27 September: It seems that gas was the culprit. I removed the 87 octane fuel as well as I could through the filter access in the back seat, closed it, and then put 5 gallons of 92 octane raw gas (C12) in the tank and it ran way better. Since it's not registered yet, I've not driven it on the street, but the idle has smoothed out and two cold starts have gone well. Thank you to everyone who pitched in with help.

EDIT 1 October: So MINI read the codes on the misfire and diagnosed that the coils were bad. Apparently the lower octane gas is more likely to induce a misfire (their words not mine) and the raw gas helped. It passed state inspection in MA.

I specifically asked a number of times about the HPFP, and the service advisor went out to ask the tech to make sure there were no codes for it. (At least that's what he told me.) Apparently there were none, and according to them it wasn't part of the misfire. They offered their coils at $95 each, but I declined and will be ordering them online, probably from ECS.

Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this.

 

What code is being thrown?

 

I don't know yet. Car isn't registered even, just took possession on Friday night. May have to tow it to a garage, I don't have a reader.

 

There are readers that are pretty inexpensive and still tell you a lot of information. Harbor freight or amazon. You don't need a professional grade necessarily. I borrowed my neighbors 50$ one for quite some time. Still got the job done. Oriley or advanced auto let you use theirs in their lot for free.

That is a misfire in at least one of the cylinders. Don't know what you mean by "cold start issue". Cold start, everything should be firing properly its just a little louder exhaust note than when the system is warm. If own a mini, you want a reader.

It's not the death rattle that you may be concerned about...... well, it could be but not noted in your video.

How many miles?

 

Hey that's good information on the readers thank you. Maybe Harbor Freight is the quick answer here to see whats up. I know with my VW's the cheaper global OBD2 readers weren't very helpful.

The car has 124K. PO said he replaced alternator, coils and NKG plugs in the last month. Coils definitely look new but lack any brand markings so maybe they are suspect.

The cold start issue I was referring to has an "official" thread on here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-database.html I don't know much about it, just what I've read over the last two days.

I was looking at the Schwaben reader from ECS, but I'm under a time squeeze to get reliable info so I can negotiate with the PO to see if I can get the car fixed with his help or say that I want to return it.

Thanks again.

 

If you go into the menu on the "thumb stock" the cooper will tell you some of the codes stored without a reader. It takes a bit of practice to learn to navigate that menu but your display will actually give you the code number once you figure how to access it. (have pencil and paper ready) It sounds like the PO had these issues prior to selling if he was replacing a bunch of ignition things.

Just a rough guess but I'm guessing High Pressure fuel pump... esp if it's never been replaced. It gives misfires. It gives those backfire kinda sounds when they go as well and that code (s) should be stored on the thumb stock menu. I'd replace the fuel filter in the tank as well if it has never been done. Again, Rough guess. Need the codes. Both items above easy DIY maintenance items.

 

Oh that's a good hint, thank you I'll check it out.

PO said he replaced coils, plugs and some wires within the last month. Car operated normally when I drove it a few days ago.

Good to know that the HPFP can cause misfires. It's hard to tell if it's been replaced or not - it looks newer than the head, but it also looks like it's different metal than the head so I don't know. It could also be a bargain pump purchased with a large diet drink at the corner store.

The air filter is crap, so I assume the fuel filter and oil filter are the same way. I've seen videos on replacing the fuel filter, it seems pretty straightforward.

Thanks again.

 

That sounds like it is running on 3 cylinders. Check your spark plug coils looks like one of them is bad.

 

Does the site have a tutorial on how that works through the thumb stalk? I can't find out . . .

 

Okay, I figured out how to get into the computer, now trying to figure out what the codes mean, they're not P codes.

 

Got a generic P-300 code from a scanner this morning.

 

Well, it's not a generic code per se. It is stating that the misfire is happening in one or more cylinders. That means it's not specific to one particular cylinder which would indicate a burnt valve on a cylinder, a bad ignition coil, an injector or plug on a specific cylinder. It is Random.
My bet is still HPFP.
Aftermarket products are not bad.... rarely. Don't go second guessing (just yet) new parts installed as being inferior.

When a fuel pump goes, they don't just stop pumping, they do cause these type of misfires yet sometimes no misfires. An eBay pump for example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Pressu...UAAOSwm9lbldOJ
136$
I have purchased several of these remanufactured pumps. They last as long as 500$ oem new pumps.
I'd still replace the filter as well. I get those off amazon for about 30$ Make darn sure you get the right one as the search is a bit misleading .
31$

 

Yes I know what you mean about generic - even the code reader has that word next to the code. It could be caused by a high number of things relative to other codes so it is a goose chase in a way.

Thank you for the links. Its interesting to hear people's experiences. I've talked to two people (one at ECS) who strongly recommended against the lower-priced pumps because of a lot of bad experiences with the pumps malfunctioning. Then there's other stories about having good luck with the pumps and no need to spend $700-900 on the OEM or OEM supplier ones.

Personally I've had pretty poor luck with my VWs and parts from my local parts shop. They are definitely cheaper, but things like control arms, bushings, some filters, bearings, etc, don't work very well or very long - or didn't fit in the first place. But I'm sure there are good ones for some applications too.

Here's the pump ECS recommends, it's OEM supplier (probably Bosch?) for $770, cheaper than the MINI version. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-oes-mini...517592429~hud/
I've had great luck with their parts and recommendations with VW. The eBay link is for a pump that fits the N14 engine, I have the N18, but I'm sure there's one pretty similar for mine.

Thanks again for the recommendations

 

I would keep looking at that Schwaben scan tool. I have one and it really has paid for itself several times over. The generic readers can certainly be helpful, but they just don’t read all of the codes. There are manufacturer specific codes that need their proprietary software to read them. The Schwaben comes pre-loaded with the correct software to work on a Mini or BMW.... or a Rolls Royce for whatever reason, lol.
Now with all that being said, yes you absolutely are having a misfire event. I’ve had this happen too. It could be as simple as a bad plug or coil, or like said above, the HPFP.
If you can read which cylinder is misfiring, it’s easy to see which. Get that scan tool. For instance P301 would be a misfire on cylinder 1. And so on. If it’s limited to a specific cylinder, you can (One at a time!) swap the coil then the spark plug to a different cylinder and see if the misfire moves with it. If it does, you’ve found your culprit.
With dash command you can see fuel rail pressure. Keep an eye on that. It should be around 750 psi at idle. Possibly 1100-ish at idle if it was one that was tweaked with an update like mine was. They raised the pressure on some for a while, probably to attempt to get them to last longer.
good luck and keep us posted

Edit to add: Also if the PO was a diy guy, or even if not, I don’t trust a lot of garages either. Check the spark plugs that they said were recently replaced to make sure they are the correct plugs and that the gap is right. Unless it’s tuned, use the factory plugs.

 

Grumpy all good advice, thank you very much. I like the advice on the dash command - I assume you mean the way to get into the ECU with the odometer button. Is there a table that shows what all the abbreviations mean in that display?

PO was not a DIY guy but I found out today he gets his cars worked on by a mechanic who moonlights from his gas station job and rents space at night. Might be a brilliant tech, but I don't know.

Good to know about the Schwaben. I've bought a lot of parts from ECS over the years for other vehicles and I think their advice is good. They told me today the work they put into the Schwaben as their house brand for MINI. It would be good to get the same visibility I have with the VAG-COM.

Coils looks new but I've not pulled the plugs yet.

The PO told me today also that he ran the car almost out of gas and then put in 3/4 tank of 87. So I'm going to drain it, clean it, replace the filter and put in some high octane to see what happens. We're still undecided whether to keep it or make the PO take it back. If he's reluctant trying to force him to do it could easily cost more than the car.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4495520

Thanks!

 

BMW owns Mini as well as Rolls Royce


If you put 87 octane in you just hit the nail on the head........ that is your problem. I was going to ask. It would give multiple misfires on a direct injection motor.

 

Thank you for the message. Just so I don't lose any internet points here, I'd like to make clear that it was the PO who put the 87 in on Friday right before he delivered the car. So lets all agree that we can blame him if it turns out to be the gas. Plus I've already made too many mistakes myself.

 

LOL I wasn't trying to site blame, just diagnose and get you back to motoring. I could write a book on the errors I've made along the way.

I'm anxious to hear how she runs on 91 / 93.

 

No problem at all, looks like it was the fuel. Next few days will tell, now on to the next problem which I think is on me: windows, directionals, etc. stopped working after I took the negative battery terminal off. Maybe the footwell module, I don't know. Something to do for the weekend!

 

lol Amen. I second that. My girlfriend asked me yesterday relative to some discussion if I had "the code reader" in the glove compartment? Ah well, of course I do...are you crazy? I'm driving a mini. I told her in this car, you don't leave home without it.

Without some basic diagnostic codes, everyone is guessing. Someone could have taken a leak in your tank last night and it could be causing that problem. Who knows? The code reader will also only give you 70-97% "hints" at the problem usually. It is more like it will "rule out" things.

 

Yeah, I'm learning that fast. I'm telling my wife, "It's not a car, it's a project, which allows me to sometimes go get practical things like envelopes or mousetraps." She didn't think that was too funny.

Looks like pumping out the gas and replacing it with 91 raw gas solved the misfire, now it's off to MINI stearlership tomorrow for them to diagnose and (hopefully) replace the FRM module under warranty.

 

Just a suggestion for the OP: you might consider letting others know what Mini you own. Like the year, model, that kind of stuff.
I've never heard of 87 octane gas making a Mini run/start poorly. 91 gas is recommended, not required in these cars.
There were models (like my 2007 MCS) with a notoriously faulty high pressure fuel pump (HPFP). Mine had one. Car would be hard to start first thing in the morning, sputter a little, and then run fine. Did this for a few weeks and finally wouldn't start at all. Had to get it towed to dealership under warranty. Just FYI.

 

That's a good suggestion, I will add it to my signature.

I don't know it's the gas for sure, but it runs so much differently now, that it might be. It also might be opening up the fuel system has changed things too, I'm not sure. I'll see what the dealer says tomorrow, I'm there for a FRM module (hopefully under warranty.)

 

Yeah, I would second that. Lower octane gas is not going to keep your car from running. It is just not going to make as much power. Ignition won't be as close to maximum as you can get so you will have more carbon build up, less total engine life, higher part failure rate like O2 sensor, catalytic converter, etc.

did you replace the fuel filter when you drained the tank? That is VERY important and will definitely cause the problems you are referring to.

 

The car ran but stumbled on cold start and then a little on idle. The manager of the racing gas dealer works on MINIs and has one of his own, and swears that the 87 octane gave his MINI the same conditions, I've received messages to the same effect, plus there's other opinions similar to yours so I think it's difficult to draw a hard conclusion. My own experience with other cars is similar to your opinion, so I'm not clear on what is going on yet.

I did not replace the fuel filter, although I have one from MINI sitting on my workbench. The canister was so tight that I was afraid I was going to break it, and since we may return the car to the PO, I decided to just switch the gas. I also considered cleaning the fuel tank out, but curtailed my efforts in light of the possible return.

On top of all that, I have messages that say people know for a fact that its the HPFP, the plugs, the coils or head gasket. All of it is possible I suppose, I'll find out more when they give me the codes and recommendations at the speakership this morning.

I've been pretty fastidious about maintenance, parts quality and diagnosis for all my cars, this one is different because if the problems are big enough, we may just return it to the PO, and I think that makes the process a little different. Thanks for all the help!