Replaced MAF - noticeable difference
#1
Replaced MAF - noticeable difference
Read on if you wish, there are lessons in there but replacing the MAF with an open wire MAF as a BAD thing and this will never work, this is also known as a HOT WirE model.
Mini uses a HOT Film type.
ultimately what happened was once the car adapted to the new MAF it started running VERY rich.. way too rich and in sport mode the car smelled like sulfur from the exhaust because the massive amount of fuel that was getting dumped into the exhaust for the bangs and pops of sport mode.
A hot film MAF is more sensitive.
tuning, more so a stage 3 and is is probably going to require a JCW MAF and MAP sensor as it is able to accommodate more air, and properly...
no one anywhere but a rare few threads ever mentioned this.
So i bought an after market MAF and it was immediate that the MAF is not the same or, better/worse. Not sure what to make of it, so here is the best i can explain.
Edit - this is the MAF i got - https://www.partsgeek.com/ss/?i=1&ssq=Ma325&x=0&y=0
1. It fits looser in the stock air box, so i need to make sure its not leaking, though since its loose before the sensor a leak there, so minor only a sealed smoke test would reveal it, is of absolutely no consequence because its before the Sensor Wire. Thus any air leaked IN is metered. - - later after the plastic and rubber ring had expanded from head and cooled a few times the fit was as normal as the stock MAF.
maybe slightly loser in the air intake tube but the hose camp is tight and so is the MAF tube.
2. The sensor is an exposed meter wire. Aka Hot Wire, The mini brand i took off , uses a hot film and an air channel to funnel air over the film.
After market model Has a wire clearly visible and exposed. - is this going to give me a truer reading? Exaggerated reading? Or really no difference. I would think a fully exposed wire and resistor would bring truer reading as the air is directly gliding over it.
3. Idle throttle response is worse, there is a definitive dead zone worse than ever at the top of the gas peddle. Push the pedal and now more than ever the idle drops and the car tries to die, by dropping idle or slightly surges to compensate, usually it wants to die. And a very slow push of the throttle doesnt show it, but a normal rev, not mashing on it, does. Kind of like just revving the engine a little when you are ready to take off, just a slow push with your foot.
4. IMMEDIATE difference in performance. VERY noticeable increase in power , cant tell if its torque or HP thats more. But ****... its 100% different. Tires blazing, she’s really shittin’ and gettin’.
torque steer is very obvious, body roll front to rear is more dominant as the engine torques.
5. Sport mode, and i need to test more, may be running very rich, enough i think i can smell it. The couple times i smelled it I couldn’t tell if it was the beater cars around me or not. It was more of a rich exhaust smell. I would even go so far as to say it smelled like when a coil is bed, that sulfur/bad egg smell. But not THAT bad, jus a hint of it. But the car isn’t missing or anything.
if anyone can tell me what i should be looking for, using my schwaben tool i will test the MAF readings, but i dont have a clue what to look for, what reading is good or bad.
so.. #3 is my biggest concern.
now more than ever my throttle response at the top end of the throttle is worse.
its a dead zone where its not:
a) opening the throttle body thus starving the engine for air?
b) giving fuel so that when the throttle body opens, there is no fuel to compensate?
C) some other sensor isn’t relaying proper data... maybe my throttle positioning sensor is bad? Should i go after the one under the gas pedal or is there another one somewhere that is more prone to need replaced.
Mini uses a HOT Film type.
ultimately what happened was once the car adapted to the new MAF it started running VERY rich.. way too rich and in sport mode the car smelled like sulfur from the exhaust because the massive amount of fuel that was getting dumped into the exhaust for the bangs and pops of sport mode.
A hot film MAF is more sensitive.
tuning, more so a stage 3 and is is probably going to require a JCW MAF and MAP sensor as it is able to accommodate more air, and properly...
no one anywhere but a rare few threads ever mentioned this.
So i bought an after market MAF and it was immediate that the MAF is not the same or, better/worse. Not sure what to make of it, so here is the best i can explain.
Edit - this is the MAF i got - https://www.partsgeek.com/ss/?i=1&ssq=Ma325&x=0&y=0
1. It fits looser in the stock air box, so i need to make sure its not leaking, though since its loose before the sensor a leak there, so minor only a sealed smoke test would reveal it, is of absolutely no consequence because its before the Sensor Wire. Thus any air leaked IN is metered. - - later after the plastic and rubber ring had expanded from head and cooled a few times the fit was as normal as the stock MAF.
maybe slightly loser in the air intake tube but the hose camp is tight and so is the MAF tube.
2. The sensor is an exposed meter wire. Aka Hot Wire, The mini brand i took off , uses a hot film and an air channel to funnel air over the film.
After market model Has a wire clearly visible and exposed. - is this going to give me a truer reading? Exaggerated reading? Or really no difference. I would think a fully exposed wire and resistor would bring truer reading as the air is directly gliding over it.
3. Idle throttle response is worse, there is a definitive dead zone worse than ever at the top of the gas peddle. Push the pedal and now more than ever the idle drops and the car tries to die, by dropping idle or slightly surges to compensate, usually it wants to die. And a very slow push of the throttle doesnt show it, but a normal rev, not mashing on it, does. Kind of like just revving the engine a little when you are ready to take off, just a slow push with your foot.
4. IMMEDIATE difference in performance. VERY noticeable increase in power , cant tell if its torque or HP thats more. But ****... its 100% different. Tires blazing, she’s really shittin’ and gettin’.
torque steer is very obvious, body roll front to rear is more dominant as the engine torques.
5. Sport mode, and i need to test more, may be running very rich, enough i think i can smell it. The couple times i smelled it I couldn’t tell if it was the beater cars around me or not. It was more of a rich exhaust smell. I would even go so far as to say it smelled like when a coil is bed, that sulfur/bad egg smell. But not THAT bad, jus a hint of it. But the car isn’t missing or anything.
if anyone can tell me what i should be looking for, using my schwaben tool i will test the MAF readings, but i dont have a clue what to look for, what reading is good or bad.
so.. #3 is my biggest concern.
now more than ever my throttle response at the top end of the throttle is worse.
its a dead zone where its not:
a) opening the throttle body thus starving the engine for air?
b) giving fuel so that when the throttle body opens, there is no fuel to compensate?
C) some other sensor isn’t relaying proper data... maybe my throttle positioning sensor is bad? Should i go after the one under the gas pedal or is there another one somewhere that is more prone to need replaced.
Last edited by cyberlunacy; 10-18-2019 at 07:16 PM.
#3
#5
Have you switched back to the stock airbox to see if your boost levels off?
i am starting to think that there is an inherent flaw in the cookie cutter tune.
if there was a place that could Dino tune it now i may have it cleared up but i have no one near me that i am aware of that can do it.
Haven’t tested enough, its been rainy all weekend and all i will do is spin my tires if i lay into it, its boosting that much more aggressive without overboosting.
the stock air box with WIX/MANN or K&N filter helped the most to keep boost where i had to use more throttle to get more boost.
with the CIA, it was ½ throttle full boost.
and i dont like wasting money but for the price, i think This was worth finding out.
i’ll let you know more. But i also plan on swapping back to the CIA and see what it does.
p.s.
resetting adaptations via the Schwaben tool also helped, but didnt make a huge difference.
so far, the stock air box with good breathing air filter has been the most helpful.
i am starting to think that there is an inherent flaw in the cookie cutter tune.
if there was a place that could Dino tune it now i may have it cleared up but i have no one near me that i am aware of that can do it.
Haven’t tested enough, its been rainy all weekend and all i will do is spin my tires if i lay into it, its boosting that much more aggressive without overboosting.
the stock air box with WIX/MANN or K&N filter helped the most to keep boost where i had to use more throttle to get more boost.
with the CIA, it was ½ throttle full boost.
and i dont like wasting money but for the price, i think This was worth finding out.
i’ll let you know more. But i also plan on swapping back to the CIA and see what it does.
p.s.
resetting adaptations via the Schwaben tool also helped, but didnt make a huge difference.
so far, the stock air box with good breathing air filter has been the most helpful.
Last edited by cyberlunacy; 09-29-2019 at 07:48 PM.
#6
I'd have to buy a stock airbox since I threw the top half out after having the ddm works on for so long. I mean the tune should work with a aftermarket intake, but I guess not? I'm tempted to bite the bullet at this point and just switch over to another tune just to see if that will fix it.
I don't know if you saw yet, but someone else came forward and has the same kind of issue we do.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-gtd-47-a.html
Edit: Just bought a used stock airbox on eBay that also comes with a maf. I'll buy a Mann filter as well and see how the car is.
I don't know if you saw yet, but someone else came forward and has the same kind of issue we do.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-gtd-47-a.html
Edit: Just bought a used stock airbox on eBay that also comes with a maf. I'll buy a Mann filter as well and see how the car is.
Last edited by NeonLed; 09-30-2019 at 10:58 AM.
#7
Yeah either this maf is bad or something else
system is dumping much more fuel than normal thats where i am getting the extra power. Or i need the CIA to offer more air??
sport mode coming to a stop stinks like sulfur so fuel is getting dumped out the exhaust much more than normal.
normal mode doesnt stink
reset adaptations will drive it tomorrow.
immediately just at idle the dead zone seems better but turn on sport at idle and its back so i would say either starved for air or loading on fuel. - duh lol or maf is misreporting air intake temp or air volume
New MAF and now this is it correct or bad?
i have no idea what dash command should be reporting for MAF readings.
my issue was never boost dropping though i have seen it, it was too much boost at too low of rpm ( in my eyes) when the engine isnt ready for it
system is dumping much more fuel than normal thats where i am getting the extra power. Or i need the CIA to offer more air??
sport mode coming to a stop stinks like sulfur so fuel is getting dumped out the exhaust much more than normal.
normal mode doesnt stink
reset adaptations will drive it tomorrow.
immediately just at idle the dead zone seems better but turn on sport at idle and its back so i would say either starved for air or loading on fuel. - duh lol or maf is misreporting air intake temp or air volume
New MAF and now this is it correct or bad?
i have no idea what dash command should be reporting for MAF readings.
my issue was never boost dropping though i have seen it, it was too much boost at too low of rpm ( in my eyes) when the engine isnt ready for it
Last edited by cyberlunacy; 10-01-2019 at 05:06 AM.
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#8
Aftermarket maf is out
i was running without sport mode i could smell it today just not the rotten egg smell, just a way too rich exhaust.
so oem maf is back in going to have to driver her tomorrow but i can tell just sitting in the driveway the deadspot at the top of the throttle is still there. Probably going to have to reset adaptations again and take a drive
oh that extra power from the extra fuel shall be missed :(
i was running without sport mode i could smell it today just not the rotten egg smell, just a way too rich exhaust.
so oem maf is back in going to have to driver her tomorrow but i can tell just sitting in the driveway the deadspot at the top of the throttle is still there. Probably going to have to reset adaptations again and take a drive
oh that extra power from the extra fuel shall be missed :(
Last edited by cyberlunacy; 10-01-2019 at 06:10 PM.
#9
Top end throttle dead zone appears to be gone (not totally but back to the little bit that was there prior) and i am back to where i was prior to the MAF replacement.
its running as it was also, there is just no way in hell this thing is producing 260hp, and the dynamics of the tune Mario touted are just not even there, they never have been frankly.
so god damn frustrated, at everything
its running as it was also, there is just no way in hell this thing is producing 260hp, and the dynamics of the tune Mario touted are just not even there, they never have been frankly.
so god damn frustrated, at everything
Last edited by cyberlunacy; 10-03-2019 at 09:11 AM.
#10
#11
#12
Aftermarket maf is out
i was running without sport mode i could smell it today just not the rotten egg smell, just a way too rich exhaust.
so oem maf is back in going to have to driver her tomorrow but i can tell just sitting in the driveway the deadspot at the top of the throttle is still there. Probably going to have to reset adaptations again and take a drive
oh that extra power from the extra fuel shall be missed :(
i was running without sport mode i could smell it today just not the rotten egg smell, just a way too rich exhaust.
so oem maf is back in going to have to driver her tomorrow but i can tell just sitting in the driveway the deadspot at the top of the throttle is still there. Probably going to have to reset adaptations again and take a drive
oh that extra power from the extra fuel shall be missed :(
#13
ya know what sucks the most out of all of this.. and totally understanding atmospheric conditions play a huge part, even with a tune, i can find absolutely NOTHING anywhere, of what type of readings i should be seeing with this tune so i can compare to mine.
sure fuel rail pressure and boost psi,, those are easy.. But what about the real numbers that make that happen?
A/F mixture, actual amount of fuel being used, a valid MAF MAP reading, the things will will tell me, is my car within spec, heavy, light, etc...
i told Mario that the way the car acts at times is that it runs lean, maybe within spec, but lean.
Plus with the issues i have had there is no way this car wouldnt be throwing a code, especially th rich fuel mixture, but after a week, there was never a single code, not even stored codes. As much fuel as was being dumped, it should have been running rich codes...
so if it wasnt, i would then expect i wont see lean codes until its too late. - but i say that not fully understanding when the ecu would consider it running rich or lean.
it never missed or anything prior to or after the MAF, it was just that power wasnt there, and it took too much fuel for me to go “wow now thats a stage 3 tune pulling 260hp”
fuel economy isn’t a real concern, the car by itself produces decent mpg, so if the tune made it run more fuel like Mario says.. i am not seeing it, in fact my fuel mileage is ridiculously good, far better than i would ever think given the tune is supposed to be using more fuel
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