Hi!

I have a 2013 r56 mini, currently I'm experiencing a knocking sound from the front passenger side. When the car is at idle it knocks and when I Rev it knocks faster. Has anyone had this issue?

I've asked around and got multiple answers:
Timing chain
Alternator belt
Rod


Videos with the sound are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...udiRXvW4YShqQi

 

I recall someone else having a similar symptom from a failing friction drive wheel. Chunks come off it & create the noise.

 

Remove the passenger wheel well liner. Use a trim removal tool to make it a bit easier. You may need one 5mm allen and a Phillips head too. Anyway, take a good look around while its running. If you have a stethoscope, use it to identify the noise origin.

 

If nothing is obvious, let us know. The next step for me would be to remove the valve cover and take a look at the upper chain guide as well as the timing chain tensioner bolt. Closely inspect the tensioner wheel, the surface of the water pump wheel and the crankshaft pulley inner rubberized portion.
All of these are common failure points

 

Ya, our 2012 was doing that. The pulley friction rubber was coming apart (I think it was the water pump pulley).

 

Alright so I’ll on my way to work this morning my car wouldn’t start, probably due to a battery issue. Possibly connected to the alternator if it has an issue?

 

So I did the repair but it didn't fix the issue, basically it counts as preventative maintenance now since the belt was cracked and the headgasket was leaky.

Should I change the timing chain and have the rods checked?

 

Raise the engine speed, if the frequency of knocking increases, this may be an engine problem. But if the knock disappears, it's something rattles. auxiliary drive belt tensioner, etc. The sound in the video looks like a timing chain

 

I am just learning to navigate the ins and outs of Minis, so I am following this thread to learn more, but that is not a typical timing chain noise.

 

I'm sad to say that sounds like bottom end to me, and I'd have someone drop the oil pan and have a serious look.

:-(

Charlie

 

Did you check for cracking or chunks in the rubber covering the water pump pulley? It actually driven by the friction wheel, not the belt. It can get noisy, but unfortunately that sounds like something else. I’m not sure what, but it’s pretty dang loud. You will probably need to pull the valve cover and oil pan to look deeper.
Is the performance any different? How long has it been going on for?

 

Just got a call from the BMW mechanics, they said it was the belt tensioner. Would cost me about $600 to fix it...... Going to have it parked for now until I have the money to fix it.

While changing the belt and gasket I did notice oil in the 1st spark plug cylinder, I'm wondering if maybe that is also causing some of the issues?

As for the timing chain and guide it looked fine to me but I'm not sure what to look for in it.

 

$600,- for changing the belt tensioner seems a bit high. Is it really just the belt tensioner? In your second video there is barely any movement of the belt tensioner arm. Also, the knocking sound is quite "hard" (if the belt tensioner were to cause this knocking, the knocking would likely be "softer").

I would remove the belt and start the engine (ignoring the error about the alternator not working) to check whether the sound is gone or not. If it is gone, i would also inspect the water pump pulley (as MrGrumpy suggested). If there is more than one chunk of its rubber coating missing, it would explain the higher frequency. And since you seem to also have battery issues, also check the alternator and the onboard voltage when the engine is running (can be monitored from within the hidden menu).

Here are the BMW instructions to have the tensioner replaced, in case you want to do it yourself:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...ement/D7S9meau

By the way:
It would help if you stated all of the symptoms of your car and be more specific as to what you have tried to fix so far. For example: why did you change the gasket ,considering you only noticed oil in the spark plugs while changing the gasket.

 

I'll give that a shot after work tomorrow. While doing research I notice that there's a pull tab on the tensioner, I didn't think anything of it yesterday, but I notice that in most videos the mechanic was able to pull the tab pretty easily and it would wind itself back in the pull tab on my tensioner doesn't seem do the same. I'm guessing maybe that has something to do with the issue? Although all the research I found everyone suggest that they hear a squealing sound and not a knocking sound.


As for why I changed the gasket it was part of the BMW mechanics diagnosis, even though after taking the valve head cover apart I realize that they didn't actually take a look inside the engine, all they looked at was the serpentine belt and the items it effects. For the oil in the spark plug I was able to clean it out with some rags and qtips but after I can get a diagnosis on the knocking I'll hold off on replacing the spark plugs

 

Talking about the pull tab leads me to think you may have been looking at the friction wheel.
the tensioner is closer to the front, and there is a spring loaded pin, up top under the hood, that you push to hold it in place when you use a pry bar to release the tension.
I may be completely off here on what you meant, if so, my apologies. Just trying to help a little bit to get you going again from long distance.
When my friction wheel went out, and the water pump pulley was pretty badly cracked, it made a hell of a rattling sound. But very different from what you have going on, but definitely check that water pump pulley. It’s wrapped with rubber and if it’s chunked out or badly cracked, it will make a racket. But for sure take the belt back off and start it to see if that makes it disappear. That should certainly narrow things down a bit.

 

You mean the friction wheel assembly (with its release pull tab) behind the crank wheel, driving the water pump pulley? Not to be confused with the belt tensioner (which is forward of the crank pulley).

And with "doesn't seem to do the same" you mean that the release tab does not retract by itself, right? But if you push the release tab in, it does re-lock the friction wheel, correct? The former has no effect on the correct operation of the friction wheel assembly. But if the latter is not the case, the friction wheel is not "re-locked" and the water pump cannot be driven at all (causing the engine to overheat eventually).

It is very unlikely that the friction wheel assembly itself causes that knocking sound as its pulley is made of metal only and unlikely to deform (and irrespective of whether the release tab works or not). The rubber surface of the water pump pulley on the other hand is known to desintegrate with time, causing such knocking sounds. Squeaking of the friction wheel bearing seems to be normal, I had/have it in both the factory installed part at less than 20K miles, as well as a brand new and identical replacement OEM part (both made by Dayco).

I would start off with checking whether the knocking sound persists with the friction wheel release tab pulled out. If not, you have the culprit: the water pump or the water pump pulley which you can then inspect for damage (brace yourself for the tight space!). If yes, my next step would be to also remove the belt itself and run the engine. If knocking still persists, the cause is not releated to the belt drive components.

FWIW:
In the case of my Mini, a knocking sound was caused by melted belt rubber residue within the tracks of the crank wheel, as well as a non-smooth outer surface of the belt itself: with the friction wheel in "locked" position, the minimal extra thinkness would be transferred to the water pump (via the friction wheel pulley), making that knocking sound. However, the knocking was not as harsch, nor as loud as in your case:

Edit: MrGrumpy was faster.

 

My mistake, the mechanics found the friction wheel release to be broken not the tensioner. Watching the video this does look like a possible cause of the knocking.... I'm definitely not a mechanic though, still trying to learn what I can.

 

I watched the video and the sound is quite similar although not as loud. And yep my mistake I did mean the friction wheel, the mechanic found the release broke on it... My belt did have cracks on it but no chunks were missing from it. But as I said before I'm no mechanic yet, just learning.

 

A broken release tab cannot cause a knocking sound.

I wonder: if the release tab is broken, how did you manage to replace the belt?

 

So with the tab broken, I didn't know it was at the time. It was hard to pull out to actually release the friction wheel, couldn't get a good grip on it in the cold so I had a buddy do it. We had to force it to release. The friction wheel didn't feel wobbly or flimsy either.

 

I would first worry about that knocking sound and not at all about the friction wheel. As long as the car doesn't overheat, the friction wheel works fine. There is no harm done by the release tab not working. Besides, if you/they need to get down there to fix whatever causes the knocking sound, the friction wheel can be changed along (saving most of the $ 600,- bill).

 

That's my biggest worry but I'm just fixing what they've been diagnosing, I don't know if there's something under the valve cover that's broke or if it is an issue with that has to do with the serpentine belt. The last time I brought the car in (this morning) the service dude went out and had me start the car so he could listen, it's as everyone is saying all they want is the money. The only way the new issue wasn't diagnosed the first time around is because they didn't even look at the friction wheel, only the belt. But I paid the money and as long as the issue exist I'll get the diagnosis for free.

 

I haven't got around to remove the belt yet between work and other things life's been tiring. I've decided to buy an 2001 audi tt quartto in the mean time to get me to work and back. Once everything settles I'll pull the belt off, so hopefully this weekend

 

Hello everybody! Figured I'd reply on an old, similar thread instead of creating my own.

I'm also experiencing a similar knocking sounds coming from the timing chain end of the engine. Below is a video that sounds nearly identical to mine.


I've got a 2011 NA Hatch, currently sitting at 102k on the ODO. The engine was replaced with a new unit under warranty around 35k, so the current mileage on it is only around 67k. Full synthetic its whole life, with few issues other than a failed thermostat. I changed the oil within the last 2k miles and it is currently at an appropriate level. I started and drove the car 20 miles(no noise), parked it for about an hour, then started it(no noise) and drove home. I started hearing the noise while driving the last mile to my house, specifically at speeds under 30mph and most notably pulling away from a stop.

I'm going to dig in an pull the passenger side wheel liner out today to inspect the accessory belt and associated components as suggested by Lancaster above. I'm hoping I find something there but my gut is telling me its internal to the motor. My question is, if its not a failed/failing accessory component, what would the next bet be? Timing chain guide failure? Con rod bearing failure?

I had to replace the timing chain in an NVC3 Sprinter van last year, so if it is the timing chain, I feel confident about doing that repair. I don't know what that failure sounds like in these cars though, so I kinda have no idea what this is or might be.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/assistance!

 

Well then! Quick diagnosis and it looks like my accessory belt is WELL past due for a replacement. There is a 4-5 inch chunk of the inside grooved portion of belt missing.... I'm lucky it didn't let go entirely.

I have a Bentley manual and the replacement looks pretty straight forward. My question is, what else is suggested to be replaced at the same time? I know on the Mercedes vans I'm familiar with, you replace pulleys and the like along with the belt where possible. Is this the case with the mini? Or should I just inspect and replace pulleys/parts as needed?

Thank in advance, I really appreciate having active forums to bounce ideas and info off of in times like this.