Questions during an engine swap
#1
Questions during an engine swap
We are in the process of replacing a 2007 Mini Coopers N14. I have not started installing the core support with all the ancillary parts.
We have the engine in the chassis and all connections are made except for the passenger side intake tube sensor. I Attempted to do a dry fire to make sure the engine would run without the front end attached. I got nothing but a bunch of symbols across the digital display. I expected the warnings since everything is not connected.
Does the ecm lock out the engine from starting in this state? The engine won't even crank.
Thanks
Rich
We have the engine in the chassis and all connections are made except for the passenger side intake tube sensor. I Attempted to do a dry fire to make sure the engine would run without the front end attached. I got nothing but a bunch of symbols across the digital display. I expected the warnings since everything is not connected.
Does the ecm lock out the engine from starting in this state? The engine won't even crank.
Thanks
Rich
#2
Pretty common mistake is to forget the chassis ground connection on the top engine mount --- belt side. Don't know about the front end connections, it might want the fan. If your "passenger side intake tube sensor" is the MAP/T sensor, I'm pretty sure it'll crank but probably won't run without it.
#3
#4
#5
When referring to "passenger" or "driver" side, we need to know if it's built for USA or UK. Best to not use vague descriptions. https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select helps with actual descriptions, location, etc.
What's the condition of the replacement N14, new, rebuilt, short block, already timed? Do you trust the engine seller? Did you crank it manually before installation? Maybe it won't crank because it's locked up --- pistons jammed into valves. Was the car running before replacing the engine --- starter and other parts are OK? Why was the engine replaced?
Do you have experience working with Mini Cooper engines? I mention "MAP/T" and you come back with "MAF", implies you don't know the difference or didn't read my input correctly. I'd like to help, but need to know who / what I'm working with.
What's the condition of the replacement N14, new, rebuilt, short block, already timed? Do you trust the engine seller? Did you crank it manually before installation? Maybe it won't crank because it's locked up --- pistons jammed into valves. Was the car running before replacing the engine --- starter and other parts are OK? Why was the engine replaced?
Do you have experience working with Mini Cooper engines? I mention "MAP/T" and you come back with "MAF", implies you don't know the difference or didn't read my input correctly. I'd like to help, but need to know who / what I'm working with.
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MiniToBe (11-02-2020)
#6
I found the initial issue. I had hand tightened the main ground but had failed to torque it. Engine fired for 2 seconds made a "ting ting" sounds and came to a stop and would not restart.
The N14 is a junk yard motor with ~110,000 miles.
The timing set showed 74mm using the pretension tool. So I set about changing the timing set. Something went wrong.
I installed as per instructions. I decided to pull the cams rather than pulling the cam bolt. Engine was in contact. So on my 2nd attempt I pulled the exhaust cam sprocket since the kit cam with one.
The crank seemed to torque fine. Kit said not to torque the cam bolts with the cam locks in place. I used a crow foot and 1/2" drive to try to keep the cam in place. As I was tightening I saw the exhaust sprocket turn slightly with cam bolt. I pulled the bolt and decided to try a 3rd time.
3rd attempt I left the locks in place and used channel locks to help hold it in place. I put tension on the chain system to hold the sprocket in place.
I bolted on the top bracket guide as I tensioned the intake side guide the cam was walking to ~1/2 tooth to the intake side advanced.I had never pulled the Intake cam bolt so this was as per factory. I left it.
We checked compression: 1-4. 0; 75; 25 and 4 I didn't bother since the head has to come off no matter what. I checked the cams and they both look advanced ~1 tooth. Since both cams look near equally advance the crank I believe slipped.
My determination is I mis-torqued the crank. I've done TTY several times with out an angle gauge but I think this time it bit me in the butt.
I can only presume I have missed some steps or minor tricks to make this go smoother. This is going to be an expensive lesson.
If you can't torque using the locks how do I torque the bolts? How do you get the slack out to keep everything locked in position so it stays in time?
If you can offer some advice I would appreciate the information.
The N14 is a junk yard motor with ~110,000 miles.
The timing set showed 74mm using the pretension tool. So I set about changing the timing set. Something went wrong.
I installed as per instructions. I decided to pull the cams rather than pulling the cam bolt. Engine was in contact. So on my 2nd attempt I pulled the exhaust cam sprocket since the kit cam with one.
The crank seemed to torque fine. Kit said not to torque the cam bolts with the cam locks in place. I used a crow foot and 1/2" drive to try to keep the cam in place. As I was tightening I saw the exhaust sprocket turn slightly with cam bolt. I pulled the bolt and decided to try a 3rd time.
3rd attempt I left the locks in place and used channel locks to help hold it in place. I put tension on the chain system to hold the sprocket in place.
I bolted on the top bracket guide as I tensioned the intake side guide the cam was walking to ~1/2 tooth to the intake side advanced.I had never pulled the Intake cam bolt so this was as per factory. I left it.
We checked compression: 1-4. 0; 75; 25 and 4 I didn't bother since the head has to come off no matter what. I checked the cams and they both look advanced ~1 tooth. Since both cams look near equally advance the crank I believe slipped.
My determination is I mis-torqued the crank. I've done TTY several times with out an angle gauge but I think this time it bit me in the butt.
I can only presume I have missed some steps or minor tricks to make this go smoother. This is going to be an expensive lesson.
If you can't torque using the locks how do I torque the bolts? How do you get the slack out to keep everything locked in position so it stays in time?
If you can offer some advice I would appreciate the information.
#7
There is a pre tensioning tool that should be used when tightening everything up, then put in the tensioner.
Holding it is easier then you may think. I believe it was a 1-1/8" wrench goes on the far end of the cam that your tightening the sprocket/vanos on and then use the appropriate torquing tools (torque wrench to get to the lbs, then angle measure... or if you plan it, you can put lines on the head of the bolt start at 12 and then go to the appropriate angle.
Tightening the harmonic balancer bolt you need to have purchased or made the special tool to tighten this... as it takes a whomping amount of torque.
Holding it is easier then you may think. I believe it was a 1-1/8" wrench goes on the far end of the cam that your tightening the sprocket/vanos on and then use the appropriate torquing tools (torque wrench to get to the lbs, then angle measure... or if you plan it, you can put lines on the head of the bolt start at 12 and then go to the appropriate angle.
Tightening the harmonic balancer bolt you need to have purchased or made the special tool to tighten this... as it takes a whomping amount of torque.
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#8
The timing set showed 74mm using the pretension tool. So I set about changing the timing set. Something went wrong.
I installed as per instructions. I decided to pull the cams rather than pulling the cam bolt. Engine was in contact. So on my 2nd attempt I pulled the exhaust cam sprocket since the kit cam with one.
The crank seemed to torque fine. Kit said not to torque the cam bolts with the cam locks in place. I used a crow foot and 1/2" drive to try to keep the cam in place. As I was tightening I saw the exhaust sprocket turn slightly with cam bolt. I pulled the bolt and decided to try a 3rd time.
3rd attempt I left the locks in place and used channel locks to help hold it in place. I put tension on the chain system to hold the sprocket in place.
I bolted on the top bracket guide as I tensioned the intake side guide the cam was walking to ~1/2 tooth to the intake side advanced.I had never pulled the Intake cam bolt so this was as per factory. I left it.
I can only presume I have missed some steps or minor tricks to make this go smoother. This is going to be an expensive lesson.
If you can't torque using the locks how do I torque the bolts? How do you get the slack out to keep everything locked in position so it stays in time?
If you can offer some advice I would appreciate the information.
As for short-cuts --- in your case, if the crank bolt is still tightened to the correct spec, it can be left alone when re-installing the head. The objective is to have crank and cams locked in place with the ability to tighten the chain COMPLETELY around all sprockets, using the tensioner tool. This can be achieved if no more than one sprocket is tight. Considering how hard it is to tighten the crank bolt, the chain install / adjustment is a lot easier using this short-cut. Also, when tightening the cam sprockets, I've always used the locking tools to hold the cams in place. I only use the wrench Jay describes when adjusting the cams into position for the locking tools.
Then as a final check, after tightening all sprocket bolts and installing the real tensioner, remove locking tools and manually rotate the crank CW 4 - 6 full rev's, re-install crank locking tool and check cam timing again. Cam locking tools should fit flush to the head with minor gaps being OK. I don't have ready access to the allowable gap measurements, but somebody might have them. This is to ensure all chain links have been stretched.
Remember, this is an "interference" engine --- valves can contact pistons if timing is too far off. You gotta remember to NOT rotate the crank without having a tight and adjusted chain. And only rotate the crank CW! Vanos doesn't like going CCW - it's spring-loaded to allow for the variable cam timing feature.
And, don't re-use any of the TTY bolts, that's just asking for a disaster.
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