Hi. I've just put a few hundred miles on a used MC, a standard Cooper with Sports package. Love the suspension. like the brakes, pretty disppointed with the drive train. Guess I really need an S, but with no wait and $2k under msrp, this one was hard to refuse :smile:

I have a couple of questions I'm hoping those more informed/experienced can answer:

1. Transmission. I would describe mine as both "notchy" and "sloppy". The sloppiness is not unlike the feel of late-model VW tranmissions I've driven. You are kind of floating in mushy limbo between gears and hunting for each one as you go to engage. The notchiness is sometimes quite severe, requiring a very delicate touch to get into gear. THE QUESTION: Are these symptoms related to the linkage clip recall? Mine is scheduled for this next week, and I'm hoping, maybe in vain, for some improvement.

2. Spinning Down. Probably the most annoying characteristic of my car is the way the engine maintains revs when I pull my foot off the accelerator. It spins down VERY slowly! I'm sort of getting used to this, but not loving it. Every performance-oriented car I have driven comes down very quickly. Is this normal for MC's? Are there any tuning tweaks that I could ask a dealer to make to improve the situation? Installing a light-weight flywheel seems like huge overkill.

3. Sway Bars. I get that feeling that my car could be nearly perfectly balanced with a slightly beefier rear anti-sway bar. As it is, there is a slight bit of body roll and understeer "plowing" when I push it, although it's still pretty damn impressive. Has anyone upgraded sway bars with the stock "Sport" suspension? Any experiences/advice would be appreciated.

Let me say that all my criticisms should be taken in context. My other car (soon to be sold) is a '69 Alfa GTV, one of the all time greats. So the Mini has a very tough act to follow, to say the least. To be honest, the MC's engine and transmission can't even touch the Alfa's, even though 33 years separates them. Suspension and brakes are as good or better, though.

Thanks in advance.

 

A1. I have the Getrag and think it's one of the best I've shifted.
A2. I love the way the ECU is designed to maintain revs for a second. This allows for smooth shifts since it the revs are already matched.
A3. You should have invested in the sport plus suspension.

And my question to you is: If all your doing is complaining about the MINI, why'd you even buy it? It is a new, fairly cheap car, not an Italian classic. Try comparing a Honda Civic Si with a 69 Corvette.

 

X-Alfa, welcome to MCO! You will find a lot of great people here and perhaps a few helpful ones too!

Your criticisms are welcome here, as we all know that the MINI is not absolutely perfect, but it sure is amazing at what it does well. Since these cars are so new, BMW will likely be making improvements and fine tuning the cars over the next couple years. Hopefully some of that will get incorporated into our early MINI's thorugh warranty work and TSB's.

You are probably right about the fact that a MCS would be a better match for your purposes, but there will be plenty of time to get another MINI later on. For now, it sounds like you got a great deal on a great MINI and saved yourself the headache of waiting an eternity to get one. I would have done the same thing (actually, I did).

1) don't have my MCS for another week, but the one I drove had a very precise transmission

2) The slow spinning down of the engine is part of BMW's drive by wire system and right now there is little to do about it. Likely to be improved with future software upgrades if enough people like us whine about it. I may be wrong here (mechanical experts correct me please!), but I believe I have read that the engine has a surprisingly heavy flywheel that could be seriously lightened to help this problem if you are willing to futz around with internal parts of a car with a warranty.

3) The sports suspension is a bit more like what you are looking for. As people start modifying their cars with aftermarket stuff, it should be a pretty easy thing to pick up some lightly used suspension components in the near future to get this in order for a good price.

4) John Cooper Works has a 200hp turbo kit for your car which would give you the power that you desire. Might soon be offered by MINI dealerships if the rumors are right?

Without being too nit-picky, my only complaint about the MCS after my test drive was that I felt it needed 200hp in order to have enough power to match the handling!

Congrats on the new MINI and look forward to hearing more from you!



_________________
~Yucca Patrol~
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

7 sub 21

 

Yikes! Way to make someone feel welcome! See my answers to your semi-hostile questions below.

>>A1. I have the Getrag and think it's one of the best I've shifted.

That's great. I have the 5-speed and it has not yet been in for the recall, and I was just asking whether I could expect some improvement when this fix is made. I was not slurring the Getrag or your S.

>>A2. I love the way the ECU is designed to maintain revs for a second. This allows for smooth shifts since it the revs are already matched.

To each his own, but I don't think I'm alone on this one. Just asking whether there are ways to change this characteristic, maybe via ECU programming. Very easy to do on an older car.

>>A3. You should have invested in the sport plus suspension.

Thanks, very helpful. I bought a used car without the Plus suspension. I actually love the suspension, and don't think I'd want the stiffer springs of the Plus package. Again, just looking for advice on making a very minor tweak to mitigate some mild understeer.

>>And my question to you is: If all your doing is complaining about the MINI, why'd you even buy it? It is a new, fairly cheap car, not an Italian classic. Try comparing a Honda Civic Si with a 69 Corvette.

And my answer to you, sir, is: I needed a fuel-efficient, engaging, inexpensive commuter that had a few years of factory warranty left and, around town, could carry a couple of car seats in relative safety. I drove a lot of good cars, holding up the Alfa up as a benchmark for handling and overall driving feel, because this car would replace it. The Mini won hands down - which I think says a lot about the car. Unlike your interesting Honda/Corvette pairing, the Mini and the GTV are not that far apart in terms of size, weight, and the ultimate experience behind the wheel. I think it's a pretty reasonable comparison. (The Mini, of course is much more expensive than the best 69 GTV out there, which puts it at a disadvantage.)

I intended for the overall tone of my comments to be quite positive, especially about the Mini's handling. I meant no offense, but it clearly seems that some was taken. I apologize for this. I'm sure your S is a much better car than mine and you are very fortunate to own it.

Best wishes.

 

Thanks for the warm welcome and helpful reply, YuccaPatrol. Online, as in life, you encounter all kinds!

I completely agree that even the standard MC feels like it could handle much more power. 200hp would be very sweet, indeed.

I like the idea of trying to source a Plus suspension from a car that has been "upgraded" to aftermarket parts. I'll keep my eyes open for this.

Thanks again.

XAlfa

 

XAlfa,
Welcome to MCO!

For what it's worth, I did not find your post to be overly critical at all. It appears to me that you are simply a relatively new MINI owner who has some questions about the performance of the vehicle and is seeking solutions to the them. Your questions are not any different from the many others I've read on this site. Additionally, the tone of the post (inasmuch as there can be a "tone" in written communication) did not seem to indicate that you were bashing the MINI in any way. I commend you for showing restraint in your response.

Please do not be discouraged by the response to your original post. I think for the most part you will find a welcoming, helpful group of people at MCO.

 

Hey XAlfa! Welcome :smile: ) and it's a very nice item. If you aren't a local (Denver), you can find it at http://www.MINI-Madness.com .

I haven't had a chance to drive the 5 speed, so I can't help you there - but I do know there have been two recalls and the latter did address sloppy shifting, so maybe the dealer will help!

The flywheel is heavy, and that does contribute to the slow return to idle, but most of it is in the ECU programming - I don't know if even the aftermarket chip tuners have addressed this yet. Once you get used to it, it's actually a nice feature - almost like an automatic heel/toe to match revs.

Hope you enjoy your car. What's it look like?

Randy

 

I'd like to extend a big welcome to XAlfa. Congrats on the car! A special congrats on the deal!!

Thanks for the honest assesment. Your critiques are right on the mark in many respects and site many of the reason why I went with the Cooper S. Had I known about the John Cooper Works Edition currently being considered by BMW, I may have gone with a Cooper as you did and simply waited. I believe that John Cooper Works have done more in the way of mod work with the Cooper than the Cooper S. For more info on the John Cooper Works upgrade, click here. To stay up to date with it being offered in the U.S., contact Aimee Canterbury (Minijewel on MCO) at International Mini to get added to her JCW info mailing list.

By the way, I, too, am a former Alfa owner. In fact, a Graduate was my first car. I dismissed both cars when I saw them at the Auto Show because I thought they would be too expensive. It is the Mini's strong heritage that reminded me of the Graduate and has a lot to do with me being excited about getting a new car for the first time since I recieved my driver's license. Oddly enough, the Mini will be the first new car I ever bought. It's sort of like things have come full circle.

Again, congrats and welcome.
-Otto

 

What cracks me up about this site is all the people that think they are experts and don't even have the car yet. How can someone be knowledgeable on something without owning it? I just don't get it. They are telling people what they have read or judge the car by a 10 minute test drive. Wait until you get the car and then post your opinion on it.

_________________
Electric Blue "S" Black Roof w/Blue Flames and Black Caps....Prem/Sport Packages...
Black Bonnett ...17's.. Lapis Blue Leather... One Bad Lookin MINI

 

Yes, MINI-Madness makes a great rear sway bar that is not expensive. Great vendor, too!

I have a MCS, not a MC, so I don't know how different this would be for you...but my Rogue intake did help with throttle response DRAMATICALLY!! Worth checking into an aftermarket intake.

R

 

>>What cracks me up about this site is all the people that think they are experts and don't even have the car yet.

Hmm. So by this you mean I have to own both the Cooper and Cooper S to make a comparison?

>>>How can someone be knowledgeable on something without owning it?

In my experience reading does work. I recommend Sports Compact Car, European Car, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and British Car. Let me know if you need more suggestions.

>>>They are telling people what they have read or judge the car by a 10 minute test drive.

Or they may have friends that have the car, but then you didn't bother to ask.

Come on. Lighten up!

 

The slow spin down is due to the heavy weight fly-wheel that is used in Mini. I didn't like this either, but after driving mine for over 12K miles so far, I am really enjoying the feel. It makes for better driveability and less jumpiness in the throttle. The Mini would jerk severly and you wouldn't feel the surge when shifting to a higher gear if the flywheel were lighter.
It's a light car and the flywheel weight gives the car a heavier feel.

The rear sway is another aspect that could use improvement. I am going to get an aftermarket rear swaybar for mine to try to dampen the roll feeling that you are describing.

Enjoy.

Kesh

 

Cheers!
Clover

 

XAlfa,
I didn't mean to sound harsh, but when you come to a MINI lover's site and your first post is just a complaint about how the MINI doesn't measure up to your classic Alfa, that's what happens. Sorry, I will be more friendly from now on.

 

Okay, I just bought a MC '03 and I know some of what you are talking about with the tranny. Although this could be a personal issue because it's my first manual car, it seems like I have to "search" for the gears at times. Sometimes going into third, or back down to first, is harder than running a 5K. It's almost like the gear is blocked. I don't know why this is, any ideas?

I've been looking for an adaquate place to ask this question and it looks like this is the best place for it, so here goes. Tonight as I'm driving home (this is my 6th night of having the MINI, 326 miles) and I accidently reved a little too high and spun the wheels a little. As I'm in second gear hitting 4000 RPM, I engage the clutch and just listen. What I hear is the purring engine winding down, but I can also hear what sounds like "little rocks" rolling around somewhere or an unhealthy gurgle. The engine sound wasn't pure like I would think. It had this little underlying sound, that I have no idea where it was coming from. It may be a normal sound coming from the MINI, but I have never heard it before. Anyone else hear this sound?

Please tell me my lil guy isn't needing attention already. Thanks!

 

People have mentioned the rocks sound here and there, but I forget why. or if it indicated anything amiss.

I find upshifting to be smooth whether I'm hammering at it or just motoring. Actually, I find it to be more demanding when I am running hard (shifts closer to the redline still aren't quick enough, I figure). But in the 45-6000 band, the shifting motion is smooth, and the car jumps out in the next gear (really, it feels like I could get wheel spin coming into third).

Downshifting is no different than any other manual I have driven: until I learn to heel-toe successfully, it is simply balking because the engire rpm is too low for wheel speed. So I am careful about how much I want to push the downshifting.

Granted, I have never driven a car that could be called 'performance' so I can't really say if it is a disappointment or not. But the upshifting is a thrill, and I have never heard anything other than a really pleasant whine from the engine.

 

XAlfa-
Welcome to the MINI world! My wife has had two Alfa's (both Spiders...); so I know a little bit about where you're coming from (especially with the fuel injection, the 2 liter Alfa engine/transmission was a jewel). My MINI won't be here for a few months, but I've driven several; and keep my ear to the forums...

A1
>>That's great. I have the 5-speed and it has not yet been in for the recall, and I was just asking whether I could expect some improvement when this fix is made.

Shouldn't affect it at all. It simply installs a positive retaining device. If it shifts poorly, take it in and get it looked at (hopefully there was some sort of warranty that came with the car?).


>>
>>>>A2.
>>To each his own, but I don't think I'm alone on this one. Just asking whether there are ways to change this characteristic, maybe via ECU programming. Very easy to do on an older car.

This is something that SHOULD be addressed in some of the aftermarket chips... contact GIAC, or some of the other companies; and ask them SPECIFICALLY if they included this change. If you just change the flywheel, you may find it gets "worse", as the ECU fights to maintain the "programmed" response with the lighter flywheel.
>>
>>>>A3.
... the sport plus suspension.
>>

If it were me, I'd try FIRST to play with the tire pressures. THEN I might try talking to Moss, or one of the tuning houses about your specific needs. Again; every individual is looking for something a little different. Some criticise the harshness of the 17" wheels, others find them alright. There are several options already (including, adjustable rear control arms if you REALLY want to play with toe, camber, etc).
>>

"I needed a fuel-efficient, engaging, inexpensive commuter that had a few years of factory warranty left and, around town, could carry a couple of car seats in relative safety..."

...Then you got the perfect car!

(ps: a Cooper in the hand is probably still better than an "S" in England... where mine is!)

 

..."I accidently reved a little too high and spun the wheels a little. As I'm in second gear hitting 4000 RPM, I engage the clutch and just listen. What I hear is the purring engine winding down, but I can also hear what sounds like "little rocks" rolling around somewhere or an unhealthy gurgle. ..."

Could it have been rocks being kicked up into the wheelwells as you lit up the tires? This might explain the sound (and, of course, would be perfectly harmless). Again, if you have any symptoms you can't explain, I'd ask for help on one of the forums or go directly to your dealer. You don't want to hurt your MINI's transmission!

 

XAlfa-
Welcome to the MINI world! My wife has had two Alfa's (both Spiders...); so I know a little bit about where you're coming from (especially with the fuel injection, the 2 liter Alfa engine/transmission was a jewel). My MINI won't be here for a few months, but I've driven several; and keep my ear to the forums...

A1
>>That's great. I have the 5-speed and it has not yet been in for the recall, and I was just asking whether I could expect some improvement when this fix is made.

Shouldn't affect it at all. It simply installs a positive retaining device. If it shifts poorly, take it in and get it looked at (hopefully there was some sort of warranty that came with the car?).


>>
>>>>A2.
>>To each his own, but I don't think I'm alone on this one. Just asking whether there are ways to change this characteristic, maybe via ECU programming. Very easy to do on an older car.

This is something that SHOULD be addressed in some of the aftermarket chips... contact GIAC, or some of the other companies; and ask them SPECIFICALLY if they included this change. If you just change the flywheel, you may find it gets "worse", as the ECU fights to maintain the "programmed" response with the lighter flywheel.
>>
>>>>A3.
... the sport plus suspension.
>>

If it were me, I'd try FIRST to play with the tire pressures. THEN I might try talking to Moss, or one of the tuning houses about your specific needs. Again; every individual is looking for something a little different. Some criticise the harshness of the 17" wheels, others find them alright. There are several options already (including, adjustable rear control arms if you REALLY want to play with toe, camber, etc).
>>

"I needed a fuel-efficient, engaging, inexpensive commuter that had a few years of factory warranty left and, around town, could carry a couple of car seats in relative safety..."

...Then you got the perfect car!

(ps: a Cooper in the hand is probably still better than an "S" in England... where mine is!)

 

I just wanted to pipe in on the engine "winding down" issue.

Several of the auto magazines (including Automobile, Motor Trend, and Sport Compact Car) have mentioned that the electronic throttle on the MINI keeps the throttle open for a bit after you let off of the gas pedal, in order to reduce emissions.

Snapping the throttle shut can cause unburned fuel to get pumped through the engine. Carbs used to have a mechanism to aid in this situation...I think they called it a dashpot? I might be wrong about that.

Anyway, it sounds as if electronic throttle mapping is the place to attack this issue, not the flywheel (although adding a lightweight flywheel might have other benefits).