What Makes a MINI Click? Broken Selector Shaft?
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06-01-2005, 02:25 PM
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What Makes a MINI Click? Broken Selector Shaft? clutch pressure plate? Axle-nut?
My MCS JCW is currently at the local MINI Dealership. It is being treated for a click that accompanies most velocity changes, especially after a gear engage. Coincedentally, my previous MCS exhibited the same click. The half-axle was replaced.
My present SA is on his second day in the car insides fixin business. I'm having a hard time understanding what's going on there. Originally I was told it was a bad clutch pressure plate. They've just told me that the selector shaft was broken. Is it likely that such a part could make a click? Could it make a click when a shift hasn't even been made?
I have every faith that the solution is at hand. I just would like to understand it better so my faith is not so blind. (I'll have the car back before the Bentley arrives.)
Update:
Here's a fix outlined by Dave&Stacy below:
My present SA is on his second day in the car insides fixin business. I'm having a hard time understanding what's going on there. Originally I was told it was a bad clutch pressure plate. They've just told me that the selector shaft was broken. Is it likely that such a part could make a click? Could it make a click when a shift hasn't even been made?
I have every faith that the solution is at hand. I just would like to understand it better so my faith is not so blind. (I'll have the car back before the Bentley arrives.)
Update:
Here's a fix outlined by Dave&Stacy below:
Originally Posted by Dave&Stacy
wildone3c's SA is brilliant!!!! 
Update on Molly. I emailed our shop foreman at ou dealer, Motorwerks MINI, with the details of wildone3c's "axle-nut torque fix". I asked if he would let me perform the fix at home (since we're 2.5 hrs from our dealer). He agreed knowing my extensive background in maintaining my rallycar. The torque spec. is 134 ft-lbs.
Procedure:
1) Loosen wheel studs slightly (on clicking side).
2) Jack car up on side that is clicking.
3) Remove wheel.
4) When you look at the axle-nut and the half-shaftm there is an indentation on the shaft where the "lip" of the axle nut gets tapped in to "lock it in place". Tap that the opposite direction to allow you to release the nut. Use a brass drift punch to ensure you don't damage anything!!!
5) Remove the nut completely (this is important!).
6) Now, go under the car and move the half-shaft back and forth to make sure it is seated in the steering knuckle assembly.
7) Re-thread the nut onto the shaft carefully.
8) Re-torque nut to 134 ft-lbs.
9) Tap lip of the axle-nut back into the indentation to lock it in place. Again...use a brass drift punch to make sure you don't damage anything!!!!
10) Re-attach wheel/tire.
11) Lower car.
12) Take a test drive to see if click is fixed.
YOU MUST USE A TORQUE WRENCH TO TIGHTEN THE AXLE NUT!!!!! I cannot stress this enough. If you don't have a torque wrench and the proper size socket or if you''re not mechanically inclined, I would suggest against doing this. Just take it to your local shop and it will take 5-10 min.
I performed this procedure on Molly this evening and all of her clicking is GONE!!!!!!! Took me about 15 min. I'm still not entirely sure why this is fixing the problem, but I'd b interested to find out if this is going to be a permanent fix and why it happened in the first place. Also, it would be interesting to find out why it only happens on some MINI's and not others. Kinda weird.
Anyway, bottom line is that we're click-less now! We'll keep everyone posted on whether this is a permanent fix.
-Dave & Stacy
http://www.smsrallysport.com/
Update on Molly. I emailed our shop foreman at ou dealer, Motorwerks MINI, with the details of wildone3c's "axle-nut torque fix". I asked if he would let me perform the fix at home (since we're 2.5 hrs from our dealer). He agreed knowing my extensive background in maintaining my rallycar. The torque spec. is 134 ft-lbs.
Procedure:
1) Loosen wheel studs slightly (on clicking side).
2) Jack car up on side that is clicking.
3) Remove wheel.
4) When you look at the axle-nut and the half-shaftm there is an indentation on the shaft where the "lip" of the axle nut gets tapped in to "lock it in place". Tap that the opposite direction to allow you to release the nut. Use a brass drift punch to ensure you don't damage anything!!!
5) Remove the nut completely (this is important!).
6) Now, go under the car and move the half-shaft back and forth to make sure it is seated in the steering knuckle assembly.
7) Re-thread the nut onto the shaft carefully.
8) Re-torque nut to 134 ft-lbs.
9) Tap lip of the axle-nut back into the indentation to lock it in place. Again...use a brass drift punch to make sure you don't damage anything!!!!
10) Re-attach wheel/tire.
11) Lower car.
12) Take a test drive to see if click is fixed.
YOU MUST USE A TORQUE WRENCH TO TIGHTEN THE AXLE NUT!!!!! I cannot stress this enough. If you don't have a torque wrench and the proper size socket or if you''re not mechanically inclined, I would suggest against doing this. Just take it to your local shop and it will take 5-10 min.
I performed this procedure on Molly this evening and all of her clicking is GONE!!!!!!! Took me about 15 min. I'm still not entirely sure why this is fixing the problem, but I'd b interested to find out if this is going to be a permanent fix and why it happened in the first place. Also, it would be interesting to find out why it only happens on some MINI's and not others. Kinda weird.
Anyway, bottom line is that we're click-less now! We'll keep everyone posted on whether this is a permanent fix.
-Dave & Stacy
http://www.smsrallysport.com/
#2
06-01-2005, 03:27 PM
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#3
06-01-2005, 04:09 PM
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Bentley the guide, not the dream car (saw LOTS in the hamptons this past weekend).
Like your screen id. a LOT.
oh and i was hoping the same as far as TLC. But I seriously doubt a single worker in oxford had any idea what they were cherning out those weeks. And the VPC was likely riddled with curses as the accoutrements were applied to MINI after MINI. :P
I wish I could say the car has been blessed in some respect. The delivery itself proved otherwise beyond a doubt.
read if you like: LINK
Like your screen id. a LOT.
oh and i was hoping the same as far as TLC. But I seriously doubt a single worker in oxford had any idea what they were cherning out those weeks. And the VPC was likely riddled with curses as the accoutrements were applied to MINI after MINI. :P
I wish I could say the car has been blessed in some respect. The delivery itself proved otherwise beyond a doubt.
read if you like: LINK
#4
06-01-2005, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GMINIO
My MCS JCW is currently at the local MINI Dealership. It is being treated for a click that accompanies most velocity changes, especially after a gear engage. Coincedentally, my previous MCS exhibited the same click. The half-axle was replaced.
If so my 05 just recently started exhibiting this noise. Been bugging me with what it was but it hasn't affected any of the handling of the car. I'm just about ready to go in for my first service so I figure i'll let them know and they can (hopefully) take a look at the same time.
#5
06-01-2005, 07:16 PM
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yep. cept, as i've said, it actually repeats without clutch engagement as well. Like when descelerating from constant accel, or accel after coast in gear.
http://mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40874
read all about what it can be.
http://mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40874
read all about what it can be.
#6
06-01-2005, 07:23 PM
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06-01-2005, 08:17 PM
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#8
06-02-2005, 05:57 AM
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We're still getting the "Click" as well. It usually does it in 1st when you are taking off from a stand-still. It will also do it when you downshift to 3rd or 2nd. Lately it has been getting worse and will do it under hard acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear. If you lift off the throttle quickly, it will click again. Occasionally we will get multiple clicks (usually 3-4) as we are starting in 1st gear.
It seems to be coming from the driver's side wheel-well mainly. However, last night I heard it come from the driver's side and the passenger side. We've already had one half-shaft replaced to try and fix this. It fixed it for about a week or two. Now the click is back. I can't imagine we'd go through 2 shafts in a month's time. However, back in the 80's Chrysler had problems with their Turbo I equipped cars going through halfshafts like crazy if the engine was not properly leveled.
Now for the really interesting part. From what we've been reading on the forums about the "Just going forward Click", it seems MOST (if not all) of the cases are with the MCS. In addition, a vast majority of the cases seem to be with JCW equipped cars.
So, the questions become...are the stock shafts really up to snuff to handle the extra power of the JCW cars?
Was there a bad batch of shafts?
Could it be an alignment issue that is causing binding of the CV joint and causing failure?
Are we doomed to have to replace halfshafts 3-4 times a year?
Is there an engine leveling issue?
Is the "Click" something more...transmission, clutch, etc?
Hopefully someone will figure this issue out. We've already been to service once for this. I'm hoping the second time we can get it sorted. We're still in our 1st year with our MINI, and about 14,000 miles.
-Dave & Stacy
It seems to be coming from the driver's side wheel-well mainly. However, last night I heard it come from the driver's side and the passenger side. We've already had one half-shaft replaced to try and fix this. It fixed it for about a week or two. Now the click is back. I can't imagine we'd go through 2 shafts in a month's time. However, back in the 80's Chrysler had problems with their Turbo I equipped cars going through halfshafts like crazy if the engine was not properly leveled.
Now for the really interesting part. From what we've been reading on the forums about the "Just going forward Click", it seems MOST (if not all) of the cases are with the MCS. In addition, a vast majority of the cases seem to be with JCW equipped cars.
So, the questions become...are the stock shafts really up to snuff to handle the extra power of the JCW cars?
Was there a bad batch of shafts?
Could it be an alignment issue that is causing binding of the CV joint and causing failure?
Are we doomed to have to replace halfshafts 3-4 times a year?
Is there an engine leveling issue?
Is the "Click" something more...transmission, clutch, etc?
Hopefully someone will figure this issue out. We've already been to service once for this. I'm hoping the second time we can get it sorted. We're still in our 1st year with our MINI, and about 14,000 miles.
-Dave & Stacy
#9
06-02-2005, 07:13 AM
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What you describe matches my JCW's clicks exactly. My first MCS (in the background of my sig below) was not JCW'd or pulleyed. Nor am I positive it was clicking outside of a shift like my current car and yours. Thus it will be interesting to see if the tranny swap fixes Che's Clickitis, and therefore possibly yours.
There has been no other attempt to fix my curent car. I was told Tuesday it was difinetly NOT the half shaft. I went in there expecting fully the halfshaft. I have trouble rembembering i am not a mechanic sometimes. If the head-tech came away certain that the defect lay in the clutch and found it instead to be in the selector rod, I should be impressed. Instead I was suspicious, and that's my response from umpteen bad MINI dealership visits not even at this location.
There has been no other attempt to fix my curent car. I was told Tuesday it was difinetly NOT the half shaft. I went in there expecting fully the halfshaft. I have trouble rembembering i am not a mechanic sometimes. If the head-tech came away certain that the defect lay in the clutch and found it instead to be in the selector rod, I should be impressed. Instead I was suspicious, and that's my response from umpteen bad MINI dealership visits not even at this location.
#10
06-02-2005, 09:49 AM
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Interesting. You'll have to keep us all posted as to what happens and what they fix. I can't see how this could be a selector shaft issue. Usually when a selector shaft breaks (and yes...I have broken one on our rallycar) you can't shift into whatever gear that shaft controls.
(This is assuming they are talking about the selector shaft inside the tranny)
This click seems to be more of a half-shaft/clutch/pressure plate/throw-out bearing/differential/wheel bearing issue. I fear we may end up playing the "replace various part til it goes away" game. We should probably keep this thread going and updated on what is fixed and what the result was. Ours so far...
Molly - 2005 JCW MCS
=================
1) New Driver's Side Halfshaft - April 27, 2005
Result: Fixed click for a week or two, click resurfaced and has become worse. Now seems to click on both driver's side and passenger's side.
We'll continue updating as we move forward.
-Dave & Stacy
(This is assuming they are talking about the selector shaft inside the tranny)
This click seems to be more of a half-shaft/clutch/pressure plate/throw-out bearing/differential/wheel bearing issue. I fear we may end up playing the "replace various part til it goes away" game. We should probably keep this thread going and updated on what is fixed and what the result was. Ours so far...
Molly - 2005 JCW MCS
=================
1) New Driver's Side Halfshaft - April 27, 2005
Result: Fixed click for a week or two, click resurfaced and has become worse. Now seems to click on both driver's side and passenger's side.
We'll continue updating as we move forward.
-Dave & Stacy
#11
06-02-2005, 10:46 AM
6th Gear
Interesting. I have also been noticing what is I think the exact same issue on my car.
For the past few weeks (since its been warm enough to drive with the windows open), I've been hearing what I originally thought was a quick tap of a Toyota's horn out my window! Then I realized it only occurred when I was next to something that is reflecting the sound of my car, and at the times you described.
I've assumed it is some suspension bushing of some sort, not really a big deal. It certainly doesn't seem to affect anything. I can't tell if it is coming from the front or rear drivers side, but it really sounds like suspension.
I've been meaning to see if I can duplicate it by jumping on the car when parked or pushing it back and forth or something to see if I can hear it from outside and find the source.
And yes, I have JCW too...but it sounds like suspension to me not engine.
Well I'll be watching this to see if we all can't come up with the culprit!
For the past few weeks (since its been warm enough to drive with the windows open), I've been hearing what I originally thought was a quick tap of a Toyota's horn out my window! Then I realized it only occurred when I was next to something that is reflecting the sound of my car, and at the times you described.
I've assumed it is some suspension bushing of some sort, not really a big deal. It certainly doesn't seem to affect anything. I can't tell if it is coming from the front or rear drivers side, but it really sounds like suspension.
I've been meaning to see if I can duplicate it by jumping on the car when parked or pushing it back and forth or something to see if I can hear it from outside and find the source.
And yes, I have JCW too...but it sounds like suspension to me not engine.
Well I'll be watching this to see if we all can't come up with the culprit!
#12
06-02-2005, 12:12 PM
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Is it suspicious that I had to have my RO faxed to me? It had only one of the items i brought it in for listed on it. They claimed they could not ad an item until after the work is finished, when the RO will include all th ework they'd done. I have never heard this before, and i have brought one MINI or another in to be serviced well over 15 times.
#13
06-02-2005, 01:18 PM
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Reading some on the M2 thread makes mine sound similar but not quite the same. They made it seem like the sound was a little more regular and persistant. Mine only seems to be a one time occurance when the clutch is let out, clutch is pressed in, throttle is depressed after a period of coasting, or the throttle is let off after accelerating.
I should be going in for my first service next week and I'll see what the service guys say.
-----
Oh yeah, just a note, this noise is not the gearbox/throwout bearing rattle that seemed to have surfaced in the M2 thread.
I should be going in for my first service next week and I'll see what the service guys say.
-----
Oh yeah, just a note, this noise is not the gearbox/throwout bearing rattle that seemed to have surfaced in the M2 thread.
Last edited by CmdrVimes; 06-02-2005 at 01:20 PM. Reason: noise clarification
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06-02-2005, 01:44 PM
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#15
06-02-2005, 02:57 PM
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I find I can replicate the click by stopping. Then, put the car in 1st gear and move forward slightly. Then, put it in reverse and move backward. It will click in both directions...for us at least.
This is how we demonstrated it at the dealer. Our service advisor made the
face when it did it. Her comment was..."that's not normal".
-Dave & Stacy
This is how we demonstrated it at the dealer. Our service advisor made the
face when it did it. Her comment was..."that's not normal".-Dave & Stacy
#16
06-02-2005, 04:04 PM
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funny. The service folks told me they could not replicate it. I said allow me. Did exactly the same thing. Told him i could get it in second and third but (point to z8 parked feet away) I haven't the room.
Even funnier. I played the same 1st-N-R trick for a regional rep with my old MCS. Duly noted as abnormal, I ended up having to go to another dealer in another region to finally find a mechanic who would concur.
Even funnier. I played the same 1st-N-R trick for a regional rep with my old MCS. Duly noted as abnormal, I ended up having to go to another dealer in another region to finally find a mechanic who would concur.
#17
06-03-2005, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave&Stacy
Interesting. You'll have to keep us all posted as to what happens and what they fix. I can't see how this could be a selector shaft issue. Usually when a selector shaft breaks (and yes...I have broken one on our rallycar) you can't shift into whatever gear that shaft controls.
(This is assuming they are talking about the selector shaft inside the tranny)
This click seems to be more of a half-shaft/clutch/pressure plate/throw-out bearing/differential/wheel bearing issue. I fear we may end up playing the "replace various part til it goes away" game. We should probably keep this thread going and updated on what is fixed and what the result was. Ours so far...
Molly - 2005 JCW MCS
=================
1) New Driver's Side Halfshaft - April 27, 2005
Result: Fixed click for a week or two, click resurfaced and has become worse. Now seems to click on both driver's side and passenger's side.
We'll continue updating as we move forward.
-Dave & Stacy
(This is assuming they are talking about the selector shaft inside the tranny)
This click seems to be more of a half-shaft/clutch/pressure plate/throw-out bearing/differential/wheel bearing issue. I fear we may end up playing the "replace various part til it goes away" game. We should probably keep this thread going and updated on what is fixed and what the result was. Ours so far...
Molly - 2005 JCW MCS
=================
1) New Driver's Side Halfshaft - April 27, 2005
Result: Fixed click for a week or two, click resurfaced and has become worse. Now seems to click on both driver's side and passenger's side.
We'll continue updating as we move forward.
-Dave & Stacy
hope it's all thumbs up from here on out...
#18
06-03-2005, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CmdrVimes
Reading some on the M2 thread makes mine sound similar but not quite the same. They made it seem like the sound was a little more regular and persistant. Mine only seems to be a one time occurance when the clutch is let out, clutch is pressed in, throttle is depressed after a period of coasting, or the throttle is let off after accelerating.
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06-03-2005, 02:48 PM
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#20
06-03-2005, 03:21 PM
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dig it. just got back with che. phew.
turns out tranny is still the original. Clutch assembly was replaced. New SA confused the case with a tranny install on a cooper. fixed.
to clarify on the click: it was single pronounced click. but could be heard in rapid succession at a low-gear upshift as well.
turns out tranny is still the original. Clutch assembly was replaced. New SA confused the case with a tranny install on a cooper. fixed.
to clarify on the click: it was single pronounced click. but could be heard in rapid succession at a low-gear upshift as well.
#21
06-03-2005, 10:41 PM
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Hey, Jwardell!
I was thinking that exact same thing! I have an '05 MCS with a JCW suspension (not the motor works). A friend of mine heard The Click, and he said that it sounded like suspension noise. I have noticed it a lot at lower speeds. Today, I thought that I noticed it when there was a slight weight shift in the car (I was decellerating in 3rd). Most of the time, it seems to happen when I shift out of first gear, but not every time, which would seem to rule out the throw-out bearing. Also, for me, it seems to be coming from the rear, but that could be an "aural" illusion, too.
I, too, have wanted to push on the car to see if I can replicate it, and I just went out in the garage to try just that, and I really couldn't get it do The Click, but I doubt my "test" was valid.
At this rate, I'm not very worried, especially since others have noticed this phenomenon, too. Tomorrow, I'm going to drive the car around the neighborhood and see if I can figure out what the devil it is.
I was thinking that exact same thing! I have an '05 MCS with a JCW suspension (not the motor works). A friend of mine heard The Click, and he said that it sounded like suspension noise. I have noticed it a lot at lower speeds. Today, I thought that I noticed it when there was a slight weight shift in the car (I was decellerating in 3rd). Most of the time, it seems to happen when I shift out of first gear, but not every time, which would seem to rule out the throw-out bearing. Also, for me, it seems to be coming from the rear, but that could be an "aural" illusion, too.
I, too, have wanted to push on the car to see if I can replicate it, and I just went out in the garage to try just that, and I really couldn't get it do The Click, but I doubt my "test" was valid.
At this rate, I'm not very worried, especially since others have noticed this phenomenon, too. Tomorrow, I'm going to drive the car around the neighborhood and see if I can figure out what the devil it is.
Originally Posted by jwardell
I've assumed it is some suspension bushing of some sort, not really a big deal. It certainly doesn't seem to affect anything. I can't tell if it is coming from the front or rear drivers side, but it really sounds like suspension.
I've been meaning to see if I can duplicate it by jumping on the car when parked or pushing it back and forth or something to see if I can hear it from outside and find the source.
And yes, I have JCW too...but it sounds like suspension to me not engine.
Well I'll be watching this to see if we all can't come up with the culprit!
I've been meaning to see if I can duplicate it by jumping on the car when parked or pushing it back and forth or something to see if I can hear it from outside and find the source.
And yes, I have JCW too...but it sounds like suspension to me not engine.
Well I'll be watching this to see if we all can't come up with the culprit!
#22
06-06-2005, 02:48 PM
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#23
06-08-2005, 02:16 PM
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#24
06-08-2005, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GMINIO
dig it. just got back with che. phew.
turns out tranny is still the original. Clutch assembly was replaced. New SA confused the case with a tranny install on a cooper. fixed.
to clarify on the click: it was single pronounced click. but could be heard in rapid succession at a low-gear upshift as well.
turns out tranny is still the original. Clutch assembly was replaced. New SA confused the case with a tranny install on a cooper. fixed.
to clarify on the click: it was single pronounced click. but could be heard in rapid succession at a low-gear upshift as well.
I'm glad to hear yolu're gettin sorted, CmdrVimes.
My satisfaction could not last a week. My car began clicking again three days ago. Hardly made the weekend. I'm loving the feeling of the new clutch and the new tires i've got... so let's see how long before it gets as bad as it did before... I notice a daily increase in frequency.
Cheers all.
#25
06-08-2005, 02:52 PM
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